The Middle East

[Wireworm5]

The sad reality is that the world is not a friendly place. This is due mainly because of religion and political ideals. At my workplace where you have people with different races and ethnic backgrounds, they can all come together under one roof and mutually get along until you bring up the subject of politcs or religion or race.
As for extending charity to other peoples to come into your country and overrun it with their ideals is just nonsense. That's like letting the neighbors into your house, which is functional and in order. Now you have to feed them, accomadate them, then they tell you how you should run your home and maybe you have to bend some rules for them. No no, keep your house in order and extend charity to them so that maybe they'll get their own house in order. Personally I'm not going to give charity to a neighbor who clearly is an enemy and wants to get rid of me. And sell him my shotgun so he can use it against me. Or trade him my technology so he can outsmart me so he can get rid of me.
If nuking the ME is what it takes to prevent the world from going into Armagedon, then I'm all for it. Believe me if these people could, they would take over North America and kill and enslave every last one of us. And who know maybe someday One of these peoples descendants will become President and take over your nation from the inside. How's that for charity?

[nobody]

It's just all the "these people" type copmments that I don't get. Are you personally responsible for and in agreement with everything your government does and/or believes? Nuking an entire region of the world? Are you people really serious? Do you see no problem with genocide?

[ericl]

I don't like to get involved in political threads here, but I'm in agreement with you, Nobody. "Nuking" an entire region of the world because of a few terrorists that come from that area is genocide, and no different than the terrorism we condemn.

Lets tone it down guys. I don't like what I am seeing in this thread.

-Eric

[trollgirl]

I hope all of you could tell that I was advocating nuking everybody but the Amish, as toungue-in-cheek to make a point.

Time and time again, before some group whomps another group of people, the whompers demonize the whompees. If you view your "enemy" as subhuman, you have fewer (or no) compunctions about offing them. I try to see Palestinians and Iraquis as being as human as I can see them.

If we all could see each other in our full humanity, and stop denying the darkness within, yes, even ourselves, we would have a better world.

The hell with excuses like democracy/democrazy, regime change, WMDs, terrorist threat, and all the rest of it. ALL wars are fought for resources and greed and somebody's profit. Follow the money, find the warmonger...

Laz

[piece-it pete]

Eric, you're against nuking everyone? lol

I know it's not really funny but since we our intrepid leaders won't do it (not reps, not dems, no one at the top)(Thank God), well, it's not like McArthur is going to rise from the dead and take over the feds, so...

I stand by my sense of humor :yes: .

Although I did read a well-thought-out article on why we should have nuked Afganistan after 9-11. I don't agree, but the writer had a point, and it needed to be said imho.

What's neat to me is look at all the differing opinions here. Some of this wouldn't be allowed in the UK, let alone China or Saudi Arabia! Look at Al Jezzera - they have round table discussions, with a handful of "experts". Very openminded and fair, except all the experts were hand picked and vetted (one of the top folks at Al J is an American btw), and THEY ALL BELIEVE THE SAME THING.

So, one might think we're controlled, but by definition if you can speak your mind, you're not. Therefore this thread is proof that we are not a theocracy, dictatorship or communism, yet.

Unless the Republican secret police are letting the conversation continue so they know who to add to their hit list. Or the Democratic secret police are letting the conversation continue so they know who to add to their hit list. Wait a minute - it's the Naderites!



I knew they were up to something.

Laz, the aggressors are the greedy ones. Defence against these criminals is a different matter altogether. And Israel was set up by the UN and is as legit as any other western-made country over there (which is all of them).

Do you have any more info on the plasma weapons? All I could find new weapon wise was electro-magnetic pulse weapons that fry out electronics.

Mark, agreed, just as certainly as the current Arab rulers use Israel and by association the US in their bait and switch Hitler did the same with the Jews - it's THEIR fault, not ours! Marching little kids in parade with mock bombs strapped on. I cannot think of a word that describes my revulsion.

Geoff, I never said the memory of our boys' blood would fade, just that the war has faded from the public eye. Myself and like minded people NEVER forget the sacrifice of those who gave the ultimate to their country, in this or any war, however large or small. I will not cheapen their blood. Regardless of the war, they did what they had to do - they did their duty.

The Iraqis blood, well they too are doing what they have to do. They have proved they want their freedom. Freedom is not free. The terrorists are killing them now. Before it was Saddam. How many mass graves? How many dead by his hand? But we're the bad guys? What about our dead soldiers?

Historians? This ain't history yet, and we don't know the ending of this story. If successful, the peoples' view will change. As of right now though, it doesn't matter what they believe, the gloom and doom theories advanced beforehand did not happen. Remember the Arab "street"? The press sure hopes you don't!

As far as our nominal allies over there, perhaps a re-reading of my comments is in order.

Nobody, we are in agreement on the nuclear issue. But the borders... if a bunch of rowdy bikers came into your town, you would expect the police to do something about it. It doesn't mean we're better than them, just that we value certain things and they don't.

WW is very right when he says there is bad people out there, and sometimes you have to shoot them, or roll over and let them steal your stuff and rape your women. This is no BS.

I don't think we should slam the borders shut completely, though. Our quasi-empire is NO empire if it's not inclusive.

And remember - we created this system, and worked very hard to build it. We don't owe anyone anything.

Pete

[nobody]

Who's that we you're talking about? I sure didn't have a thing to do with creating this system...pretty sure none of the other posters did either. Besides, the system as created did nothing to try to keep people out and was more concerned with letting people in.

[trollgirl]

...but who are the aggressors?

The United States government and its minions has a long history of aggression and dirty tricks, agains native americans, confederate civilians, Spain, Germany, Japan, Vietnam, the Moros of the Phillipines, etc. We have over and over incited groups of people to rebel or to rise up, and then we stiffed them, our friends. The latest were the Iraquis we encouraged to rise up against Saddam. Remember? They were slaughtered. If you can step out of your American skin, it is clear that America is a bully. It is our character.

Yes, the aggressors are the greedy ones, but the greedy ones are also the aggressors.

As to the plasma weapons, check rense.com. Way at the bottom of the page (a long way) is a site search engine. It should give you something.

Laz

[Resident Loser]

...southerners who are still p!$$ed over the Civil War...there are Muslim's who are still ticked over the Crusades...go figure!

Our involvement with Israel has brought us to this state...I'm not gonna' even try to repeat everything I've posted in this regard...suffice it to say we have brought this on ourselves.

So to raise a few more hackles:

Stop immigration...

Make English THE national language...

jimHJJ(...oh yeah, wire is wire...)

[trollgirl]

...southerners who are still p!$$ed over the Civil War...there are Muslim's who are still ticked over the Crusades...go figure!

Our involvement with Israel has brought us to this state...I'm not gonna' even try to repeat everything I've posted in this regard...suffice it to say we have brought this on ourselves.

So to raise a few more hackles:

Stop immigration...

Make English THE national language...

jimHJJ(...oh yeah, wire is wire...)

There are still descendents of Esau who long for the Birthright that Jacob got for the pot of stew. [about 1900 BC] It dies so very hard...

Laz

Unlisted items are self-explanatory...

[markw]

God had promised Abraham a son by his wife Sarah. As time went on, Sarah did not conceive.

In the laws of Ur (or Babylon, Mesopotania or Iraq, whatever you wish to call it), if youer wife was not able to deliver a son, you were allowed to conceive one by a servant and that son would be seen as your own, regardless of the wife.

So, in order to pass on his lineage, Abraham concieved a son by their Egyptian handmaiden, Hagar. Althoug this was "legal" by the laws of the land, this caused more than a little hard feelings between Sarah and Hagar.

Hagar's son was named Ishmael. In Genesis 16: 10-12, God said this to Hagar, the mother of Ishmael:

"I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count ... You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael ["God hears"], for the LORD has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers"

Ishmael went on to produce many sons. Muhammad, the founder and prophet of Islam, was descended from Kedar, one of the 12 sons of Ishmael (Ismail in Arabic).

Sounds like he pretty much pegged Muhammad and his followers, eh?

Now, if only Abraham had patience and waited for God to fufill his promise of a son by Sarah, we wouldn't be in this mess today...

[trollgirl]

What you say is insightful, and yes, we would not be in the mess we are in, had Abraham waited for God's fulfillment of His promise. However, we would no doubt be in some other mess...

Laz

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Unlisted items are self-explanatory. [seen on a government form]

[markw]

...that these words were "written" 5,000 - 6,000 years ago. ...and only now are we seeing them come true.

[trollgirl]

...that these words were "written" 5,000 - 6,000 years ago. ...and only now are we seeing them come true.

...as He is not constrained by time or space.

Laz