Mexico legalizes narcotics.

[Florian]

What puzzles me is why WE are not being heard instead of the illegals? It seems their voices are being amplified over ours, or we are too afraid to speak out.

Not me and my friends, we say get out all you lazy Turks, Russians and Jews and every single other Leecher. And if your a lazy german Bastard, then get off your ass and work!

:-)

The problem is the "political correctness", i never apply that to me.

[GMichael]

Boy, do I know how you feel.

I did my share of typing on this subject here. Should illegal aliens all be made citizens?

If I start up again I'll give myself heart burn. When was the last time you saw me post anything that long?

[shokhead]

What have i heard today. USA's fault that Mexico is poor.
USA stole the Southwest and they are taking it back.
US wants to take there kids away from them.
Is it immigrant protest or illegal immigrant protest? I keep hearing immigrant protest but the legal immigrant dont have anything to protest and if your illegal you dont have that right.

[markw]

What have i heard today. USA's fault that Mexico is poor.
USA stole the Southwest and they are taking it back.
US wants to take there kids away from them.
Is it immigrant protest or illegal immigrant protest? I keep hearing immigrant protest but the legal immigrant dont have anything to protest and if your illegal you dont have that right.

Nobody here has any problems with legal immigrints. It's those that
sneak in and drive down joe sixpack's wages to the point that hte can't make a decent living from a day's work. IOW, it's not that local's won't do the jobs, but that illegals will do them for much less underthe table with no bennies or taxes.

this link brings up a good point towards the end about that. Likewise, there's a quote from a leader comparing what 's going on thday to when America broke off from England. .. .a bit off context, doncha think?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/dob...sts/index.html

[noddin0ff]

Nobody here has any problems with legal immigrints. It's those that
sneak in and drive down joe sixpack's wages to the point that hte can't make a decent living from a day's work. IOW, it's not that local's won't do the jobs, but that illegals will do them for much less underthe table with no bennies or taxes.

Sounds to me more like an issue of American employers not playing by the rules. Why do you suppose they aren't hiring American workers?

[GMichael]

Sounds to me more like an issue of American employers not playing by the rules. Why do you suppose they aren't hiring American workers?

They don't hire American workers because they want fair pay and bennies. Once the "undocumented" alliens get documented, they too will want fair wages and bennies. Then the employers will want new undocumented alliens to work for $2.00 an hour. It's the American employers that created the market. But they are not alone in being wrong.

[Resident Loser]

Sounds to me more like an issue of American employers not playing by the rules. Why do you suppose they aren't hiring American workers?

...on the first...Some of the names mentioned in reporting of the demonstrations were: Cargill, Tyson and Goya foods...maybe if the stupid, silent majority opened it's mouth once in a while and boycotted these companies and took to task their government lackeys...On the second: management prefers to deal with people who have no recourse, that's why...

My wife has suggested that all of the workers who are sick to death of across-the-board high prices, deteriorating quality of life, etc.... for all of us that pay the freight...maybe WE shouldn't go to work one day and give 'em all a great big f*ck y*u...I wonder how a little anarchy from we poor shlubs would be greeted? What if we didn't show up, or get on buses, or buy lunch or be there to sell the lunch?...

I can't for the life of me figure out how those who have been through the process and done things to the letter of the law can now support some sort of fast-track BS...

If anyone calls for such a coordinated action, I'd be first in line...

jimHJJ(...unfortunately, no one probably will...)

[GMichael]

...

I can't for the life of me figure out how those who have been through the process and done things to the letter of the law can now support some sort of fast-track BS...

My wife, for one, gets crazy about it. She's about as nice a person you could ever meet, but when she sees this on the news, words come out of her mouth that I can't use here.
I can't see why anyone who has done it by the book would support this BS. But every day, someone says or does something that completely eludes me. Some people use pretzel logic. Can we get them signs?

[shokhead]

Do you think the illeagals will still have the same jobs when they become legal,no. Owners are not going to pay the the fair wage and health insur,thats why they hire illegals.
Mexico doesnt want them legal,less of our money going into Mexico. Very strange someone breaking the law,being illegal and then demanding this and that and saying we dont want to. How the hell does that work?

[GMichael]

It's the American way. We are so busy trying to bend over backwards that we don't notice that we are being shafted. And by we, I don't mean you and me. I mean the fanatics who have nothing better to do than to fight for causes that don't have anything to do with them. They feel it's their duty to save the world at any cost. I don't mind saving things. But sometimes the results are worse than the original problem.

[markw]

Sounds to me more like an issue of American employers not playing by the rules. Why do you suppose they aren't hiring American workers?

They sneak in and the only way they can get jobs is to work for lower than the going rate.

but, since they are afraid of complaining and the INS, they willingly go along with it.

Illegals don't deserve shiite. no free medical. no instant citizenship for their kids. no school for their kids. no nothing. nada.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

It's the American way. We are so busy trying to bend over backwards that we don't notice that we are being shafted. And by we, I don't mean you and me. I mean the fanatics who have nothing better to do than to fight for causes that don't have anything to do with them. They feel it's their duty to save the world at any cost. I don't mind saving things. But sometimes the results are worse than the original problem.

Just a thought, and maybe a flip side to this argument.
Perhaps we are all in a very indirect (or direct) way contributed to all of this. We want everything cheap. The reason that businesses goe for the cheap labor, is to keep costs down. The reason jobs are moved out of this country and to China and other cheap labor countries is to keep costs down. This is in response to our desire for cheap products. When we desire cheap, somebody has to pay, and usually it is us.

There was a time in this country's history that we demanded quality products. Since we usually made the highest quality products right here it usually mean't buying American products. Our businesses flourished, our quality of life was very high, and life in America was very prosperous. Somewhere down the line we began to crave cheap products, and as we did, we saw jobs began to go elsewhere, and businesses began scrambling for ways to cut costs. Obviously if you don't want to use cheap materials, then you have to use cheap labor and streamline your way to get products to the market.

A hotel room, restaurants, our produce, food, and many products we buy would be unaffordable for many of us without cheap labor. Is the answer to this a guest worker program for a limted amount of time? I could live with that, but amnesty is out of the equation for me. Been there, done that, and things didn't change one bit. They still came, there were still false ID's and social security cards, and those who lost their jobs ended up on the dole.

I want to go after the businesses that hire illegals full force. You hire them, you could possibly lose your company. With the stakes that high, they'll check ID's, social security cards, and whether they wiped after the last time they used the bathroom. It is only when the stakes get that high will we see some sort of change in behavior. Just a thought, and if you want to, flame away

[GMichael]

Just a thought, and maybe a flip side to this argument.
Perhaps we are all in a very indirect (or direct) way contributed to all of this. We want everything cheap. The reason that businesses goe for the cheap labor, is to keep costs down. The reason jobs are moved out of this country and to China and other cheap labor countries is to keep costs down. This is in response to our desire for cheap products. When we desire cheap, somebody has to pay, and usually it is us.

There was a time in this country's history that we demanded quality products. Since we usually made the highest quality products right here it usually mean't buying American products. Our businesses flourished, our quality of life was very high, and life in America was very prosperous. Somewhere down the line we began to crave cheap products, and as we did, we saw jobs began to go elsewhere, and businesses began scrambling for ways to cut costs. Obviously if you don't want to use cheap materials, then you have to use cheap labor and streamline your way to get products to the market.

A hotel room, restaurants, our produce, food, and many products we buy would be unaffordable for many of us without cheap labor. Is the answer to this a guest worker program for a limted amount of time? I could live with that, but amnesty is out of the equation for me. Been there, done that, and things didn't change one bit. They still came, there were still false ID's and social security cards, and those who lost their jobs ended up on the dole.

I want to go after the businesses that hire illegals full force. You hire them, you could possibly lose your company. With the stakes that high, they'll check ID's, social security cards, and whether they wiped after the last time they used the bathroom. It is only when the stakes get that high will we see some sort of change in behavior. Just a thought, and if you want to, flame away

I have to agree with everything here. We have shot ourselves in the foot. Where do more people shop than anywhere else? Wal-Mart. Who employs the highest number of illegals in the US? Not sure here, but wasn't it Wal-Mart who had some 200,000 or 300,000 working for them? All in the name of lower prices. But if you give these people amnesty, then they won't want to work for less either. And then the gates will be flooded with people looking to get in knowing that there is no penalty for breaking the law. H.ll, they even get rewarded. Why fill out paperwork and wait in line if you can just sneak in and get it faster for free?

Edit: There are programs available where aliens can come here and work legally. These people are willing to work for some pretty low wages too. But they filled out the paperwork and filed with the authorities.
Some people do things by the rules. Other people skip the rules and still want special attention.

[Smokey]

I see my post got high jacked from legalizing drugs in Mexico, to immigration issue. So I am going to chime in.....

In my opinion, four issues should be address about immigration (legal and illegal) to get it under control:

First and formost, the borders should be controlled as to stop illegal crossing (this might be easier said than done).

Second, restrict and down size immigration from other countries, including legal immigration.

Third, give amnesty to undocumented aliens (after extensive background and criminal check). This not only be fair to immigrant, but also to business community. Amnesty will only work if the first above issue (border control) is also addressed simultaneously. One can’t work without the other.

Fourth, pass tougher law concerning hiring illegal aliens. Create a system where employer can check on the status of employee for work eligibility.

[GMichael]

I see my post got high jacked from legalizing drugs in Mexico, to immigration issue. So I am going to chime in.....

In my opinion, four issues should be address about immigration (legal and illegal) to get it under control:

First and formost, the borders should be controlled as to stop illegal crossing (this might easier said than done).

Second, restrict and down size immigration from other countries, including legal immigration.

Third, give amnesty to undocumented aliens (after extensive background and criminal check). This not only be fair to immigrant, but also to business community. Amnesty will only work if the first above issue (border control) is also addressed simultaneously. One can’t work without the other.

Fourth, pass tougher law concerning hiring illegal aliens. Create a system where employer can check on the status of employee for work eligibility.

When you say amnesty, do you mean, we won't throw you in jail but start filling out the paperwork? Or do you mean, no problem, you're citizens now and don't worry about the forms?

[Smokey]

When you say amnesty, do you mean, we won't throw you in jail but start filling out the paperwork? Or do you mean, no problem, you're citizens now and don't worry about the forms?

I meant the former

[shokhead]

I see my post got high jacked from legalizing drugs in Mexico, to immigration issue. So I am going to chime in.....

In my opinion, four issues should be address about immigration (legal and illegal) to get it under control:

First and formost, the borders should be controlled as to stop illegal crossing (this might be easier said than done).

Second, restrict and down size immigration from other countries, including legal immigration.

Third, give amnesty to undocumented aliens (after extensive background and criminal check). This not only be fair to immigrant, but also to business community. Amnesty will only work if the first above issue (border control) is also addressed simultaneously. One can’t work without the other.

Fourth, pass tougher law concerning hiring illegal aliens. Create a system where employer can check on the status of employee for work eligibility.

How long do you think it would take to check out the background of 12,000,000 people? Do you think illegals will keep there job after they become legal,fair wage in insur? Nope.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I see my post got high jacked from legalizing drugs in Mexico, to immigration issue. So I am going to chime in.....

In my opinion, four issues should be address about immigration (legal and illegal) to get it under control:

First and formost, the borders should be controlled as to stop illegal crossing (this might be easier said than done).

Second, restrict and down size immigration from other countries, including legal immigration.

Third, give amnesty to undocumented aliens (after extensive background and criminal check). This not only be fair to immigrant, but also to business community. Amnesty will only work if the first above issue (border control) is also addressed simultaneously. One can’t work without the other.

Fourth, pass tougher law concerning hiring illegal aliens. Create a system where employer can check on the status of employee for work eligibility.

Smoke,
Amnesty doesn't work, we have tried this before in 1986. When we addressed this issue back then mass amnesty was granted to all illegals. I did nothing to stem the tide of illegals coming here, most refused to sign the necessary papers for fear of deportation, and lastly it spurred fraud on a massive level with false ID's and social security cards

I am personally against rewarding anyone for breaking the law. These people knew when they came here that it was illegal to do so. They believe that have a right to be here, even illegally. I do not want to reward this kind of mentality, I would like to correct it. There needs to be a dose of reality, illegals have few if any right here. They need to understand that this behavior of making demands as guests here is a big turn off.

On Monday I had a interesting ride home on BART. When I arrive in downtown Oakland there were protestors everywhere. As I was exiting a gentleman tried to hand me a flyer. I refused it. I thought at that point I thought the whole thing was over, but he continued to rant about me supporting latino immigrants. I explained to him that I am a son of a latino immigrant, and grandson of immigrants, but they came here LEGALLY. The didn't try and skirt the system, they went through the entire processes, paid fees, waited, waited some more, paid more fees, had doctor checkups, paid more fees, and were finally granted citizenship. I asked him does he think that illegal immigrants now here should get a pass when others didn't . I gave him this analogy when I told him this whole thing is going to backfire in their faces.

Let's say you go on vacation. I break into you house, eat your food, drink your beer, clean your house for 2 weeks while you are gone. When you return, I demand that you allow me to stay in your house because I cleaned it while you were gone. I asked him would you allow me to stay? He says no, and I said that is how I feel. I explained that illegals broke into my house, and are now working in it, and I want them to leave now. He says we do work that other won't do. I returned with I agree with a guest worker program, but no citizenship for illegals because they broke the law. He said that's not fair, I asked what's not fair. We are scratching your back, you are scratching ours, and we do not owe you any more than that. When the work season is over, you go home. Citizenship is for those who will go through the process, not for folks who jump over fences. He tried to cuss at me in spanish, I cussed back in spanish and surprised him totally. I explained that its this arrogance that is turning off the American public, and that they are rude guests in my country and walked away. We never raised our voices, but the intensity was there.

[shokhead]

Well i just heard this morning they wont take anything less then amnesty.

[GMichael]

Well i just heard this morning they wont take anything less then amnesty.

I won't take less than $1,000,000. When are they sending it?

[bobsticks]

Well i just heard this morning they wont take anything less then amnesty.

Or what? What exactly do they believe their recourse to be?

Perhaps more ineffective "boycotts" that serve to alienate them from those who
previously were open to debate on the subject.

The arrogance it outrageous.

[bobsticks]

[QUOTE=GMichael] Where do more people shop than anywhere else? Wal-Mart. Who employs the highest number of illegals in the US? Not sure here, but wasn't it Wal-Mart who had some 200,000 or 300,000 working for them?

I find myself in the singular position of defending WalMart in this instance. I never imagined that I would be in that position.LOL...
WalMart employs a mil, maybe a mil and a half. There's no way a full one-third of there employees could be illegal. I work for a pretty big corp. as well and in our warehousing facilities OSHA positively crawls up our a$$e$ all the time. Are they looking for faulty machineries or forklifts? No, they're looking for pallets stood on their side which is a couple thousand dollar fine for each. They do so because the company has broad shoulders and can withstand the fines. At ten thousand dollars a head, even the mighty WalMart would be fined out of existence with 200,000 or 300,000 illegals. And the govt. would do it too--WalMart is not popular within political circles. I can remember, at one point, WalMart gettin' the business for a few hundred illegals in the southwest that were employed by a subcontractor and were never verified---I think they cleaned the floors.
For the record, I can think of MANY reasons to kick WalMart squarely between the legs but fair is fair. If I wanted to flay WalMart I would start with the seven hour wait at the cash registers...or the two employees on their salesfloor at night, neither of whom will speak to you because they're on their cellphones
FWIW if we want to counter the "we do the jobs you won't" assertion, we probably need to examine our welfare system that effectively allows those who do not work and/or pop out illegitimate children every nine months the opportunity to make as much money as an introductory job. Welfare was meant to help people get back on their feet, not as a way of life.

[GMichael]

[QUOTE=bobsticks]

Where do more people shop than anywhere else? Wal-Mart. Who employs the highest number of illegals in the US? Not sure here, but wasn't it Wal-Mart who had some 200,000 or 300,000 working for them?

I find myself in the singular position of defending WalMart in this instance. I never imagined that I would be in that position.LOL...
WalMart employs a mil, maybe a mil and a half. There's no way a full one-third of there employees could be illegal. I work for a pretty big corp. as well and in our warehousing facilities OSHA positively crawls up our a$$e$ all the time. Are they looking for faulty machineries or forklifts? No, they're looking for pallets stood on their side which is a couple thousand dollar fine for each. They do so because the company has broad shoulders and can withstand the fines. At ten thousand dollars a head, even the mighty WalMart would be fined out of existence with 200,000 or 300,000 illegals. And the govt. would do it too--WalMart is not popular within political circles. I can remember, at one point, WalMart gettin' the business for a few hundred illegals in the southwest that were employed by a subcontractor and were never verified---I think they cleaned the floors.
For the record, I can think of MANY reasons to kick WalMart squarely between the legs but fair is fair. If I wanted to flay WalMart I would start with the seven hour wait at the cash registers...or the two employees on their salesfloor at night, neither of whom will speak to you because they're on their cellphones
FWIW if we want to counter the "we do the jobs you won't" assertion, we probably need to examine our welfare system that effectively allows those who do not work and/or pop out illegitimate children every nine months the opportunity to make as much money as an introductory job. Welfare was meant to help people get back on their feet, not as a way of life.

OK, you are right. My faulty memory screwed me again. Looks like it was only 300 instead of 300k. Missed by that much. But the idea was the same. We want lower prices, employers want to lower their expenses so they can compete. "Look, here are a bunch of people who are just happy that we aren't turning them in. I bet they'll work for less." Shame on these employers (whoever they are).
That doesn't excuse the illegals.

[bobsticks]

[QUOTE=GMichael

That doesn't excuse the illegals.[/QUOTE]

You're absolutely correct GMichael.

[GMichael]

You're absolutely correct GMichael.

Huh? Me right? Someone call my dad. He won't believe it. Neither will my wife for that matter.