XBox 360 crashing like mad?

[Groundbeef]

Backwards compatibility is not a red herring since I prefer not to have the clutter and hassle of multiple gaming consoles sitting around my living room. If I upgrade to the PS3, then I can get rid of my PS2 because I would have the option of using the PS3 to play all my old PS2 games. No need for two sets of consoles and controllers further crowding my already crowded AV rack. If I were an Xbox owner, I'd be pretty pissed that the X360 forces me to have both systems plugged in or to swap them out whenever I change games.

No one's heartbroken about anything since I'm not buying a X360 and don't plan to.

And Microsoft had production problems with the first Xbox as well, so there's a history of them pushing defective products into the market before they're ready. The car example's pretty ridiculous because last time I checked, most people paid a lot more than $400 for their ride.

Backwards compatibility is a red herring. Are you still p*ssing and moaning because your Atari 2600 games cant be used anymore? No, the fact is that technology moves on. I have a current xbox and really am not all that upset about it. I can 1.Keep the old xbox, and use it when I want to play it. 2. Use my new xbox 360 on my broadband connection, and play my old games. 3. Buy the new games and never look back. If every time something new came out it had to use old technology things would never move forward.

Still got your 8 track on your AV rack? Pissed off because your VHS tapes dont fit into your DVD player? Get real.

As for the car vs the Xbox example, it is not "pretty ridiculous" as you say. Or or you trying to say that if ONLY Microsoft was charging 25K for the Xbox it would be alright for an error or 2.

And you didn't respond to the PS2 recall. I might point out that the settlement was reached only after a class action lawsuit had to be filed on behalf of the consumer. Sony stonewalled the problem and blamed it on the consumer. It was clearly a hardware issue. Just wondering if you had an opinion on that debacle.

Are there any other issues that you would like to discuss even though you have no interest in them?

[Woochifer]

Backwards compatibility is a red herring. Are you still p*ssing and moaning because your Atari 2600 games cant be used anymore? No, the fact is that technology moves on. I have a current xbox and really am not all that upset about it. I can 1.Keep the old xbox, and use it when I want to play it. 2. Use my new xbox 360 on my broadband connection, and play my old games. 3. Buy the new games and never look back. If every time something new came out it had to use old technology things would never move forward.

Good for you that you're fine with swapping out your consoles everytime you want to play your old games, but like I said, why would Microsoft purposely build these arbitrary barriers to playing your old Xbox games on the X360, especially when Sony keeps the Playstation consoles backwards compatible? That kind of oversight reflects a lack of due diligence on their part and a rush to get the X360 to market before it's ready, which is typical of how Microsoft does business. I mean, I only need one gaming console to play all my PSX and PS2 games, and if I get a PS3, then I will only need one gaming console to play my PSX, PS2, and PS3 games.

With only a handful of X360 games in the meantime, and only 1/3 of the Xbox games playable on the X360 (provided that you have a broadband connection and have it connected to your X360 in the first place), that means a lot of swapping out in the meantime while waiting for the X360 games to trickle out.

Of all companies, Microsoft should know the advantages of backwards compatibility -- do you honestly think they could've kept their Windows monopoly intact if every new version of Windows would not work with applications written for previous versions? If backwards compatibility was a red herring, why would Sony bother with ensuring that the PS2 worked with PSX games, and why they are stating that the PS3 will work with PS2 and PSX games? Obviously, they see value in backwards compatibility, otherwise they would not include it as a feature from the outset, and not force consumers to jump through arbitrary hoops like downloading emulation profiles.

Still got your 8 track on your AV rack? Pissed off because your VHS tapes dont fit into your DVD player? Get real.

I am being quite real, but you seem more adept at winning strawman arguments and throwing mock condescension around, as exemplified in these comments.

As for the car vs the Xbox example, it is not "pretty ridiculous" as you say. Or or you trying to say that if ONLY Microsoft was charging 25K for the Xbox it would be alright for an error or 2.

Why would it not be? You were trying to compare someone complaining about a $400 X360 with them wanting to get rid of a new car because it breaks down. Very different devices and magnitudes of cost involved, not to mention the absurdity of your example -- how many people will actually give away rather than repair a new car?

And you didn't respond to the PS2 recall. I might point out that the settlement was reached only after a class action lawsuit had to be filed on behalf of the consumer. Sony stonewalled the problem and blamed it on the consumer. It was clearly a hardware issue. Just wondering if you had an opinion on that debacle.

Why would I respond? The topic at hand is about the many reports of problems with the X360. In your oh-so-tech-savvy view of the world, the PS2 is ancient history, so why bring that up, unless you're just being a dutiful Xbox fanboy trying to change the subject. If the PS3 comes out with bugs galore, then Sony will rightfully get roasted on boards like this one. Although if that happens, I'm sure you'd excuse Sony with the same caveat emptor "Thinks break, and thats life" approach that you've taken with the X360, right?

How many people have actually filed a claim as a result of that class action suit? Costs a lot less to settle a case knowing that not a whole lot of people will actually make claims for reimbursement, than to go through a civil litigation with unknown damages being awarded by a jury. My four-year old PS2 has worked fine from day one, but if it ever gives me disc read errors, then it's nice to know I can get $25 back for my troubles.

And speaking of not responding, I notice that you had no more smokeoutofyoura** comments about the 10% Xbox broadband usage stat, or "just *****ing to *****" retorts to add about the X360's exclusion of HDMI.

[Groundbeef]

In your oh-so-tech-savvy view of the world, the PS2 is ancient history, so why bring that up, unless you're just being a dutiful Xbox fanboy trying to change the subject. If the PS3 comes out with bugs galore, then Sony will rightfully get roasted on boards like this one. Although if that happens, I'm sure you'd excuse Sony with the same caveat emptor "Thinks break, and thats life" approach that you've taken with the X360, right?

And speaking of not responding, I notice that you had no more smokeoutofyoura** comments about the 10% Xbox broadband usage stat, or "just *****ing to *****" retorts to add about the X360's exclusion of HDMI.

1. I brought up Sony as you are only to happy to cast dispersions on a system you don't even intend on buying. And yet you let a Sony lawsuit pass under the radar as though only Microsoft has hardware issues. That was the point. As far as excusing Sony if there are hardware issues on the PS3, you bet I will. I will however draw the line if they stonewall the issue and deny any claims related to hardware issues.
At this time, Microsoft is taking the issue VERY seriously. In fact, if you have an issue Microsoft will pay for you to next day ship, and fix or replace, then next day your XBOX 360 back to you. This is not the stance that Sony took with the original PS2.

Read here for mor info http://spong.com/detail/news.asp?mod...t&cb=0.6022106

So your original quote of " Quality assurance and due diligence are not Microsoft strongsuits." is on its face non factual and foolish. It also appears the the "widespread" reports are also non-existant, and over reported. This is a few units that are being replaced as the issue presents itself.

2. Your follow up posting on the 10% number was suspect. It didnt make sense and I don't respond just to post. I did some more digging, and I back up my claim that XBOX live is a success on all accounts. You can put your head in the sand if you like, but it is an excellent advantage for Microsoft. Read more here : http://www.g4tv.com/xbox360/features...0_Pricing.html

I might direct you to this quote in the article "In the U.S., 63% of consumers state that online gaming capabilities are extremely or very important when choosing a next-gen console. To compare, just two years ago, only 15% claimed online as a key feature. "

Again, you are off base. If you dont have a dog in the fight, I would advise you to stay out of the fray. Your aversion to Online gaming, and ignorance to the fact that Broadband is the way to go is apparent. Please post when you have more facts to back up your blather.

3. As for HDMI, I stand my by orignal post that component cables are more than acceptable for 720p format that the XBOX 360 requires games to be designed for. You are b*tching that XBOX is not designed for gamers, and yet want a format that many people dont have on their TV sets. Component cables (Y-PB-PR) are much more common on TV sets than HDMI. Also, if Microsoft wanted HDMI connectivity, it would not be difficult to make a XBOX-360 cable that would have a HDMI terminal.
I just want to make sure I understand you. You blast them because Microsoft wants gamers to play on broadband connections, and yet you want them to make it connect to TV's that many probably dont have. Makes sense.

4. As for being a "fanboy"? So what. You make foolish, unsubstaniated arguements, and expect people to lap up your drivel. I don't and prefer to respond with facts and information that helps my case. I guess you would be "ignorantboy"

Have a nice day.

[Woochifer]

1. I brought up Sony as you are only to happy to cast dispersions on a system you don't even intend on buying. And yet you let a Sony lawsuit pass under the radar as though only Microsoft has hardware issues. That was the point. As far as excusing Sony if there are hardware issues on the PS3, you bet I will. I will however draw the line if they stonewall the issue and deny any claims related to hardware issues.
At this time, Microsoft is taking the issue VERY seriously. In fact, if you have an issue Microsoft will pay for you to next day ship, and fix or replace, then next day your XBOX 360 back to you. This is not the stance that Sony took with the original PS2.

And what does Sony's issues with the PS2 have to do with the topic at hand? Uh, nothing.

Given that Microsoft does not have a monopoly or even market leadership in the video game market, they damn well better take the issue seriously.

So your original quote of " Quality assurance and due diligence are not Microsoft strongsuits." is on its face non factual and foolish. It also appears the the "widespread" reports are also non-existant, and over reported. This is a few units that are being replaced as the issue presents itself.

My quote applies to how Microsoft does business in general. How many times have over the years have they let their customers do their beta testing for them with bug-ridden first releases?

2. Your follow up posting on the 10% number was suspect. It didnt make sense and I don't respond just to post. I did some more digging, and I back up my claim that XBOX live is a success on all accounts.

Of course you didn't because I backed up fact that you claimed I was pulling out of my backside. As I said, if you regard 10% adoption of Xbox Live a success on all accounts, then knock yourself out.

You can put your head in the sand if you like, but it is an excellent advantage for Microsoft.

Sure, it would be if their customers actually make use of the feature.

I might direct you to this quote in the article "In the U.S., 63% of consumers state that online gaming capabilities are extremely or very important when choosing a next-gen console. To compare, just two years ago, only 15% claimed online as a key feature. "

Wanting the capability and actually using it are two entirely different questions.

Again, you are off base. If you dont have a dog in the fight, I would advise you to stay out of the fray. Your aversion to Online gaming, and ignorance to the fact that Broadband is the way to go is apparent. Please post when you have more facts to back up your blather.

Off base? Hardly. I posted a fact, and you're responding with opinions and presumptuous attacks on the messenger.

"Your aversion to Online gaming" = presumption
"ignorance to the fact that Broadband is the way to go" = presumption
"fact that Broadband is the way to go" = opinion

3. As for HDMI, I stand my by orignal post that component cables are more than acceptable for 720p format that the XBOX 360 requires games to be designed for.

Sure, it's acceptable for now, but if the HDTV and DVD hardware markets have almost universally gone to HDMI connectivity, it's curious that Microsoft would leave that feature out if they are trying to create not even a cutting edge but just one that keeps up with CURRENT standards.

You are b*tching that XBOX is not designed for gamers, and yet want a format that many people dont have on their TV sets.

Where do I say that? Those fanboy glasses must be fogging up.

Component cables (Y-PB-PR) are much more common on TV sets than HDMI.

Have you looked in the backs of HDTVs lately? HDMI is now basically a universal feature on HDTVs and nearly universal on DVD players. The almost complete transition to HDMI on the hardware side has taken less than two years.

Also, if Microsoft wanted HDMI connectivity, it would not be difficult to make a XBOX-360 cable that would have a HDMI terminal.

Yeah, it would be nice and it would not be difficult, but for now it's just coulda woulda shoulda on Microsoft's part.

just want to make sure I understand you. You blast them because Microsoft wants gamers to play on broadband connections, and yet you want them to make it connect to TV's that many probably dont have. Makes sense.

No, I'm getting on Microsoft's case because they're cramming all of these media center, PC integration, and networking features into the X360, yet they don't even execute basic features like backwards compatibility and digital video output. Even entry level sub-$100 DVD players now include digital video outputs, so why would a next gen gaming console capable of 720p resolution exclude it?

4. As for being a "fanboy"? So what. You make foolish, unsubstaniated arguements, and expect people to lap up your drivel. I don't and prefer to respond with facts and information that helps my case. I guess you would be "ignorantboy"

Ah, the fanboy comes clean! But, keep in mind that admitting you have a problem is the first step towards recovery. Maybe after taking those next steps, your myopia will clear up and you can post more coherently and better differentiate between facts and opinions.

[Groundbeef]

[QUOTE=Woochifer]

And what does Sony's issues with the PS2 have to do with the topic at hand? Uh, nothing.

Given that Microsoft does not have a monopoly or even market leadership in the video game market, they damn well better take the issue seriously.

My quote applies to how Microsoft does business in general. How many times have over the years have they let their customers do their beta testing for them with bug-ridden first releases?

I see. Again so we are clear here. Microsoft=Bad because they don't help consumer if there is a problem. This myth was cleared up earlier, as they are fixing the small # of problem consoles as they appear. Sony=Good because they don't fix problems and require consumer to win lawsuit for relief. Glad you got that cleared up for us.
You never seem to comment on the Sony problem. It is relevent because your OP insinuates that Microsoft is the only large console maker to have problems, and do nothing to give the consumer relief.

Sure, it would be if their customers actually make use of the feature.
As I said, if you regard 10% adoption of Xbox Live a success on all accounts, then knock yourself out.
Wanting the capability and actually using it are two entirely different questions

.

Man you are so far out of water, I hope you don't suffacate before you get back into your comfort zone. Check out these 2 articles about the PS3 and online gaming:
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000813066433/
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=121475

Its not just XBOX 360 you noodle head, EVERY CONSOLE sold from here on out will connect to the internet. And much to your dismay PS3 can be used for web surfing and other networking features. Better start your 1 man letter writing campaign to end the madness!!!

Sure, it's acceptable for now, but if the HDTV and DVD hardware markets have almost universally gone to HDMI connectivity, it's curious that Microsoft would leave that feature out if they are trying to create not even a cutting edge but just one that keeps up with CURRENT standards.

Man, you need to do some more reading. Its not really all that hard. Go to google and look it up buddy. Here is your HDMI issue all tied up with a bow and pretty ribbon:

http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/...d-Holmdahl/p1/

"The reality is, you don’t need HDMI for HD gaming."

Uh-Oh, there goes another one of your arguements down the crapper. Sling mud all you want, but you are just blowing more smoke.

Yeah, it would be nice and it would not be difficult, but for now it's just coulda woulda shoulda on Microsoft's part.

Yea, it would be nice if it could grill a cheese sandwich for me too.

No, I'm getting on Microsoft's case because they're cramming all of these media center, PC integration, and networking features into the X360, yet they don't even execute basic features like backwards compatibility and digital video output.

Again, read the above articles....as you can plainly see its not just XBOX. It has the same backwards compatibility as the PS3 will. And DigVid Output is NOT NEEDED.

Ah, the fanboy comes clean! But, keep in mind that admitting you have a problem is the first step towards recovery. Maybe after taking those next steps, your myopia will clear up and you can post more coherently and better differentiate between
facts and opinions.

Oh that really hurt. My God Man, oh the humanity....I like a microsoft product.....ahhhhhhh. Give me a break. You sound like a little kid...I don't like it...I don't like it whaaaaaaaaa.

Thanks for trying though.

[Woochifer]

You never seem to comment on the Sony problem. It is relevent because your OP insinuates that Microsoft is the only large console maker to have problems, and do nothing to give the consumer relief.

No, I don't comment on it because it's not the topic of this thread. You want to dredge up old news about Sony and the PS2 launch, start your own thread.

Its not just XBOX 360 you noodle head, EVERY CONSOLE sold from here on out will connect to the internet. And much to your dismay PS3 can be used for web surfing and other networking features. Better start your 1 man letter writing campaign to end the madness!!!

Ooohh! Noodle head! Them's fightin' words!

Contrary to your myopic presumption, I don't mind that the new consoles have networking features. I'm just commenting that the X360 happens to include those features while dropping the ball on much more basic stuff like playing Xbox games and including a HDMI connection to at least future-proof the unit for the next couple of years. And let's see, the PS3 will play PSX and PS2 games out of the box without requiring broadband access or emulator downloads, they will play Blu-ray discs, and they have HDMI connections. On paper at least, the PS3 has got the basics covered PLUS it offers up the new features. The X360 is trying to push the media center features and Windows integration, yet it can't even play 2/3 of the Xbox games on the market.

Man, you need to do some more reading. Its not really all that hard. Go to google and look it up buddy. Here is your HDMI issue all tied up with a bow and pretty ribbon:

http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/...d-Holmdahl/p1/

"The reality is, you don’t need HDMI for HD gaming."

Uh-Oh, there goes another one of your arguements down the crapper. Sling mud all you want, but you are just blowing more smoke.

Hmmm, an interview with a Microsoft employee, now THAT'S an objective view! Microsoft dropped the ball with HDMI, it's that simple. You think one of their employees will say anything outside of the company line? "arguements [sp] down the crapper" ... uh, I guess if Microsoft says so, it must be so!

All of the new HD devices coming out now have digital video inputs/outputs, so why doesn't the X360? The reviews of the X360, even those that otherwise praise it as a gaming platform, are pointing out the HDMI omission as a questionable move.

And if someone plans to wait a couple of years to buy a HDTV, they might find a rude surprise waiting for them when they look in the back and find only digital video connections back there. HDMI is the here and now standard, while analog vid is getting phased out.

Again, read the above articles....as you can plainly see its not just XBOX. It has the same backwards compatibility as the PS3 will. And DigVid Output is NOT NEEDED.

Pure speculation on your part about the backwards compatibility. Even the article you linked to doesn't point to the PS3 dropping all the way down to 33% backwards compatibility (and that's the best case scenario if you bother with the broadband connections and downloading to begin with). And the digital video is one of those features that the rest of the home entertainment market has already adopted, so the X360 is already behind the curve.

Oh that really hurt. My God Man, oh the humanity....I like a microsoft product.....ahhhhhhh. Give me a break. You sound like a little kid...I don't like it...I don't like it whaaaaaaaaa

And your little condescending missives reflect an oh-so-developed maturity on your part. Like I said, when the myopia clears up, you might be able to coherently present a factual post, rather than just another fanboy rant more akin to the teenybop gamer or compact car tuning boards than this one. Talk to us when your vision improves.

[Groundbeef]

[QUOTE=Woochifer]

No, I don't comment on it because it's not the topic of this thread. You want to dredge up old news about Sony and the PS2 launch, start your own thread.

No, I don't need to start a new thread. And I guess to you, Oct 2005 is old news. That is when the settlement was reached. Final paper work is to be filed and completed buy May 2006 (tenatively). So it's not "old news" as you say. Again, it must break your heart to realize that Microsoft is not leaving anyone out in the cold. If your console breaks, they will fix it.

Contrary to your myopic presumption, I don't mind that the new consoles have networking features. I'm just commenting that the X360 happens to include those features while dropping the ball on much more basic stuff like playing Xbox games and including a HDMI connection to at least future-proof the unit for the next couple of years.

Again, you are the one with blinders on. It is a cable issue. When the cable is needed, it will be made. PS3 will need it out of the box because it will be blue ray tech, not DVD-Rom. Future proof it? You think this life cycle is for 2 weeks? New consoles are planned for a 5 year life cycle.

And let's see, the PS3 will play PSX and PS2 games out of the box without requiring broadband access or emulator downloads, they will play Blu-ray discs, and they have HDMI connections. On paper at least, the PS3 has got the basics covered PLUS it offers up the new features. The X360 is trying to push the media center features and Windows integration, yet it can't even play 2/3 of the Xbox games on the market.

Speculation on your end. Yes, it will have backwards compatibility, I have not disputed that fact. You cannot back up your claim of no broadband or emulator d/l. If you can, back it up big boy.

All of the new HD devices coming out now have digital video inputs/outputs, so why doesn't the X360? The reviews of the X360, even those that otherwise praise it as a gaming platform, are pointing out the HDMI omission as a questionable move.

Again, its a cable issue.

And if someone plans to wait a couple of years to buy a HDTV, they might find a rude surprise waiting for them when they look in the back and find only digital video connections back there. HDMI is the here and now standard, while analog vid is getting phased out.

You are correct, however, there are plenty of people that don't have HDTV or are going to purchase the new machine and a new TV.

And your little condescending missives reflect an oh-so-developed maturity on your part. Like I said, when the myopia clears up, you might be able to coherently present a factual post, rather than just another fanboy rant more akin to the teenybop gamer or compact car tuning boards than this one. Talk to us when your vision improves.

Right grandpa, I'm just the wisecracking whelp here. Let me put a 33 on the old turntable for you. Please expand on the "fanboy" reference. I am dying to understand your "insult". Or are we all to belive you shop at aldi and buy "Korn Flakes" so you stick it to the corporate man. Do you have any favorite A/V equipement or do you just get generic?
Thats good. I like that "fanboy"...

[jocko_nc]

Ba Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!! A Microsoft product with a problem? Can it possibly be???????

The Xbox is the only innovation that will allow MS to remain a viable company in the future. If I read correctly, that was essentially what the company themselves said a couple of years ago. The multi-purpose desktop PC is dying, and along with it its operating system. Take a look at the evolution of digital technology, the applications that matter are converging on the living room wall, not on the office desk. Communication, storage, display, broadcast content, home video, etc. are being accomplished on appliances that do not run any Microsoft products. (Thank God, at least they will be reliable!) Think: TiVO / DVR, iPods, Voice-over-Internet, HD displays, DirecTV, PS2, Blackberry, mobile phones. The list goes on, each an open-interface product that does not rely on proprietary Microsoft code. The XBox was Microsoft's effort to get off the desktop and into the living room. They recognized this trend early and put out the XBox at all costs, spending untold billions. They were blindsided by PS2 and its capabilities, including the network connectivity it brought. Millions of kids growing up with network communication that did not include the PC. Frightening. The new 360 was their offer to regain the lead. Did they jump the gun? I guess we'll see.

Now for the usual rant...

I think historical evidence illustrates that Microsoft as it exists cannot compete in a real consumer market. They have operated for years with a monopoly unlike any in history. Virtually every other industry has stiff competition, and the companies that thrive must be very fit. Microsoft sells defective, crappy products at inflated prices. They have leveraged their monopoly status to control the larger use of their products: First PC's themselves, then applications, finally networking and the Internet. They use revenues from their monopoly business to subsidize potentially competing technologies: Xbox. Personally, I think their time is running out. The PC operating system is dying, yet still generates a ton of capital. They need to make a move. Such is the Xbox platform. In the long-term, however, the best case scenario is that Microsoft has to compete in the new digital environment, going head-to-head with the likes of Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, Yamaha, Comcast, DirecTV, etc. Good Luck!

jocko

[Groundbeef]

[QUOTE=Woochifer] I mean, I only need one gaming console to play all my PSX and PS2 games, and if I get a PS3, then I will only need one gaming console to play my PSX, PS2, and PS3 games.
If backwards compatibility was a red herring, why would Sony bother with ensuring that the PS2 worked with PSX games, and why they are stating that the PS3 will work with PS2 and PSX games? Obviously, they see value in backwards compatibility, otherwise they would not include it as a feature from the outset, and not force consumers to jump through arbitrary hoops like downloading emulation profiles




Huh, better check your facts AGAIN. See this article

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6136677.html

This is just preliminary as the system is not fully built. Seems that "meltdown" issue they are having with heat has set them back a bit. I think even more games will be "not compatible" come 2006? or is it 2007? . But it seems that you may have to jump through a few hoops...and most likely you will need broadband for your emulation d/l. Uh-oh

[Woochifer]

Huh, better check your facts AGAIN. See this article

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6136677.html

This is just preliminary as the system is not fully built. Seems that "meltdown" issue they are having with heat has set them back a bit. I think even more games will be "not compatible" come 2006? or is it 2007? . But it seems that you may have to jump through a few hoops...and most likely you will need broadband for your emulation d/l. Uh-oh

Once again stretching facts to squeeze a square peg into a round hole. All that the Sony rep said is that they had compatibility issues with a "small portion" of the 8,000 PSX and PS2 titles that they tested. Where does it say anything about needing "broadband for your emulation"? Or is that just wishful fanboy speculation?

Even with a broadband connection and the $400 X360 version, only 1/3 of the Xbox titles are playable on the X360! At least Sony made it a goal from the outset to have the PS3 compatible with PSX and PS2 games out of the box. If they don't achieve 100% compatibility, it's still far better than the 33% compatibility that Microsoft forces consumers to jump through hoops to achieve, and the 0% compatibility out of the box.