Warner Goes Blu - will drop HD-DVD by May 2008

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Do you think I'm invested in HD-DVD or something? I own the 360 addon ($149) and have 5 movies. I hardly consider my "investment" a boat anchor. If anything you ought to direct your comments to Sir T. He owns over 100+ HD-DVD titles.

I'll just wait until the 360 offers a BR add-on and get it.

But you can stick your snarky comment up your uneducated, unintelligible, and horribly uninteresting ass.

No loss for me. I am going to keep my titles AND I have purchased a A35 on Ebay for $250. I cannot see any reason to get rid of any of my HD DVD titles except Universals. When they make their switch to Bluray, I will be getting review copies from them so no need to keep their titles around. The A35 upconverts DVD's so well its a no brainer to get one to support over 2100+ DVD's. I am going to pass on my XA2 to my best friend so we can share HD DVD movies that I have in my collection with him.

[Woochifer]

http://www.campaignhd.com/080104_Warner_Paid.html

Obviously, there's numerous sides to a story.........!
Is anyone familiar with this information and if so, does it hold water?!
I recognize that the info is from a HD DVD friendly source, but I do think it deserves consideration.
It's evident that some seem underestimate the influence the money had on the Warner/Fox decision.


Regards.

Whether or not payoffs were involved, it doesn't matter because the result is the same either way -- HD-DVD has taken a blow that very well might be the knockout punch. I recall that the HD-DVD supporters were elated when Paramount/Dreamworks dropped Blu-ray, and they certainly weren't bemoaning the reports of Toshiba and/or Microsoft paying off both studios in that case.

I've been reading the rumors about Fox in negotiations with Toshiba to join Warner in switching over to HD-DVD. But, that would've been a tall order considering that the reasons why Fox went with Blu-ray in the first place partly had to do with HD-DVD's less secure copy protection and lack of regional coding. Warner made this move to end the format war, and they only way they would've gone exclusive to HD-DVD was to switch one of the Blu-ray studios. A unilateral switch by Warner to Blu-ray simply makes more sense given how the sales trends have gone and the need to include another studio (presumably with their own agenda) in any negotiations with HD-DVD.

With this Warner move, HD-DVD is now in a worse position than they were before the Paramount/Dreamworks deal. At that time, analysts were already predicting that HD-DVD would be irrelevant by the time CES rolled around.

With Warner setting a June sunset for their HD-DVD support, it turns out that the Paramount/Dreamworks deal merely served to buy a few extra months for HD-DVD. Not sure how good a deal that is for Toshiba given that they'd been losing money on each HD-DVD player that they make.

I think by this time next year, we'll finally have a unified HD disc format. What an absolute waste of resources and energy this whole format war has been. While it might have accelerated price drops on hardware, the format war has created enough confusion and acrimony in the market to impede the uptake on HD optical discs just as the demand for HDTVs has begun to explode.

The real format war all along should have been about transitioning consumers from SD DVDs to HD resolution discs. The prospects for this transition were always uncertain, and having all of this confusion and division in the marketplace over the last two years IMO makes the prospects for HD discs even more uncertain.

[pixelthis]

I don't have too much invested in HDDVD. My A2 was only $99 and I recently got in on some of those B1G1 sales which brings me to only 7 titles. I'm at about $200 invested total. Maybe I'll move it into my bedroom or up front eventually. I should have held back on jumping in with HDDVD. Dang cheap player making me pull the trigger I don't want the player taking up space just for 7 movies. I could put a xbox or wii there

Hows the "dvd functionality"? I heard so much from HDDVD EARLY ADOPTERS
that if worst came to worst they would have a great DVD player.
Well, I played a DVD on a Sony Blu and wasnt too impressed with it, I was just wondering how the tosh does.
And a lot of people thought I was an ardent fanboy of Blu, and I did like the tech better than HD, but while I thought Blu winning was a fati accompli, others might note that I have posted several times, weather blu or HD, we need an end to this format war NOW,
give a format time to become established before the reccession hits in 08..
And if Warner was paid 500 mill good for them, its a bargain for the blu camp really,
will put them in the catbird seat and all but kill off their main competitor.
It also means that consumer education can start, and R&D can concentrate on one format, and pioneers can get a HDDVD disc player without the slightest worry,
although there hasnt been "worry" for quite some time, as most in the know know that HD has been losing this little "war" for some time

[GMichael]

Sore loser.
:

Did you miss the part about me having a PS3 player. BR is good to go in my home.
But I do seem to remember you saying that downloading was going to be the winner. Hmmmm...

[GMichael]

Looks like Target is the next domino to fall into the BR camp.

http://www.ps3news.ca/01062008/17/mo..._ray_exclusive

[Rich-n-Texas]

I like the Oreck air purifier ad better than the article about the kiddie PS3 toy.

[GMichael]

I like the Oreck air purifier ad better than the article about the kiddie PS3 toy.

LOL. What? Got some kind of dust problem down there?

[Rich-n-Texas]

No. Friggin' cat hair.

This BR announcement even made the local news down here in hicksville, so it MUST be for real.

I wish there was a way you could view the goings on at the CES. I wonder how many manufacturers are scrambling right now to get their HD players disconnected from their display demo's.

[L.J.]

Looks like Target is the next domino to fall into the BR camp.

http://www.ps3news.ca/01062008/17/mo..._ray_exclusive

Come on Universal, come to daddy baby

[Groundbeef]

No loss for me. I am going to keep my titles AND I have purchased a A35 on Ebay for $250. I cannot see any reason to get rid of any of my HD DVD titles except Universals. When they make their switch to Bluray, I will be getting review copies from them so no need to keep their titles around. The A35 upconverts DVD's so well its a no brainer to get one to support over 2100+ DVD's. I am going to pass on my XA2 to my best friend so we can share HD DVD movies that I have in my collection with him.

It's not really a loss for anyone other than Toshiba.

However, as a consumer, it does cause some future price concerns. I'm not really in the position to be paying the highest amount a studio wants for a movie. I would prefer Toshiba, or some other tech to drive down costs for ME. Removing a 2nd tier competitor isn't "great" except for the company that is now #1 (BR).

CD prices took FOREVER to drop, long after economies of scale, experience curve gains in mfg, and other factors should have caused a drop. Only within a few years have prices dipped below ~$15/CD. This is due to competition (MP3, online digital offerings etc). I certainly dont want to be paying $25+ per movie for BR.

[L.J.]

Hows the "dvd functionality"? I heard so much from HDDVD EARLY ADOPTERS
that if worst came to worst they would have a great DVD player.
Well, I played a DVD on a Sony Blu and wasnt too impressed with it, I was just wondering how the tosh does.
And a lot of people thought I was an ardent fanboy of Blu, and I did like the tech better than HD, but while I thought Blu winning was a fati accompli, others might note that I have posted several times, weather blu or HD, we need an end to this format war NOW,
give a format time to become established before the reccession hits in 08..
And if Warner was paid 500 mill good for them, its a bargain for the blu camp really,
will put them in the catbird seat and all but kill off their main competitor.
It also means that consumer education can start, and R&D can concentrate on one format, and pioneers can get a HDDVD disc player without the slightest worry,
although there hasnt been "worry" for quite some time, as most in the know know that HD has been losing this little "war" for some time

Well to be honest, I haven't played a DVD on it since I first tested it out to make sure it worked. Besides the 15 sec start up time, I haven't had any problems playing HDDVD. Not bad for the $99 I paid plus 5 free movies(if they ever come). I perfer my 2910 for DVD playback. I wouldn't want it to get lonely and give the HD players all the fun

I have 3 HDTV's so my plan is to eventually replace the movies with BR and move the player into a different room. But for now, I can still enjoy King Kong, Transformers and all that good stuff. Too bad most of these titles only support DD+. I'm not saying they sound bad, I just hope we get better audio treatment with the BR version. I want all that I can get.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

It's not really a loss for anyone other than Toshiba.

Exactly!

However, as a consumer, it does cause some future price concerns. I'm not really in the position to be paying the highest amount a studio wants for a movie. I would prefer Toshiba, or some other tech to drive down costs for ME. Removing a 2nd tier competitor isn't "great" except for the company that is now #1 (BR).

Beef, Toshiba is not really a player in disc pricing. They are a hardware company, so there is nothing they can do about the price of software. The bottom line is that it is still really expensive to author high definition disc. It is five times harder to author either formats disc than it was the DVD. BD-j require new tools, programmers have to be paid, and quality control has to be closely maintianed or you have playback issues. As it becomes easier to author, and programmers get better with coding disc, the prices will come down. Keep in mind, the drive for the studios is to get Bluray prices on par with current DVD pricing. That was going to be impossible with a format war still going on.

CD prices took FOREVER to drop, long after economies of scale, experience curve gains in mfg, and other factors should have caused a drop. Only within a few years have prices dipped below ~$15/CD. This is due to competition (MP3, online digital offerings etc). I certainly dont want to be paying $25+ per movie for BR.

I do not know if you know this, but the record companies were fined pretty heavily for collusion in the pricing of CD. They are now being investigated for price collusion for digital downloads. If they could have held prices at $16-18 forever, they would have. Keep in mind, the disc prices of both formats is roughly the same, so no matter which format won, prices would still be $25 at least for the near future. If you have been paying any attention to pricing lately, prices have dropped in some cases $5 a disc.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Come on Universal, come to daddy baby

Exactly my thoughts, but they are coming that I can assure you. They have been visiting BR replication plants for about a year now, and rumor all over Hollywood after the Warner announcement is that is a matter of time. I cannot wait since I am the Universal bluray reviewer on Bluray.com.

[Woochifer]

It's not really a loss for anyone other than Toshiba.

Well, it's also a loss for Microsoft. They'd been counting on HD-DVD to help seed their proprietary VC-1 codec, which is in competition with the MPEG-4 AVC codec that Blu-ray producers has begun standardizing around. Plus, they wanted this format war to impede the optical HD market as long as possible in order to allow as much time as possible for downloading to take off. (The irony is that Apple might wind up as the primary beneficiary from movie downloads, as they will supposedly announce new deals with Warner, Paramount, and Lionsgate next week at Macworld) With everything now lined up for Blu-ray, the industry can now focus on ramping up the Blu-ray hardware and movie title releases, which is exactly what Microsoft was trying to stop. Obviously that's not going to happen now.

At least Warner made their announcement before Bill Gates' keynote at CES, where he was supposedly set to announce an ultimate Xbox 360 with an integrated HD-DVD drive (about two years too late). The Digital Bits is reporting that as much as 30% of Gates' original speech was related to HD-DVD, but once Warner's went Blu-ray exclusive, Microsoft apparently purged all HD-DVD references from Gates' speech.

However, as a consumer, it does cause some future price concerns. I'm not really in the position to be paying the highest amount a studio wants for a movie. I would prefer Toshiba, or some other tech to drive down costs for ME. Removing a 2nd tier competitor isn't "great" except for the company that is now #1 (BR).

If you don't want to pay top tier prices, then don't be an early adopter. The Blu-ray and HD-DVD list prices right now are about the same as when the DVD format first came out. The DVD format eliminated the competition from VHS years ago, yet average DVD prices have continued to fall. This is because the DVD is now a mature market, where you'll have multi-tiered pricing between new releases, catalog titles, and clearance items. You think Blu-ray prices will stay at the current levels indefinitely?

And just because HD-DVD is likely on its way out does not eliminate competition altogether. Last time I checked, there were six major studios who compete with each other and countless other smaller studios that comprise the home video market.

Prices on Blu-ray titles will fall as economies of scale ramp up, older titles move into lower priced backcatalogs, and previous versions get deleted. Right now, all the HD optical titles are recent releases that carry new release pricing. By this time next year, you'll have a whole backcatalog of older titles that will have to carry lower list prices in order to continue selling. This is exactly what happened with the DVD, and no reason why this wouldn't happen with Blu-ray.

CD prices took FOREVER to drop, long after economies of scale, experience curve gains in mfg, and other factors should have caused a drop. Only within a few years have prices dipped below ~$15/CD. This is due to competition (MP3, online digital offerings etc). I certainly dont want to be paying $25+ per movie for BR.

Well, I remember that CDs cost about $25 to $30 when they first came out. It wasn't until later that prices settled in around that $18 price point. For new releases, the prices never fell, but for the rest of the catalog, the prices have dropped drastically. Of course, the record companies were operating like this decades before the CD was born.

With CDs, the prices only remained high across the board while collectors were busy dumping their LP and cassette collections and repopulating their collections with CDs. But, once that initial wave subsided, then the industry had to respond with lower prices on their slower selling catalog titles. And this occurred long before Napster and competition from the DVD had any impact.

The reason why you might perceive CD prices dropping is because music retailing has shifted towards big box outlets, which treat new CD releases as loss leaders designed to draw shoppers into the store in hopes that they will pick up some other higher margin items on their way to the checkout stand. The list prices on CDs are actually about the same as they were a few years ago. The primary difference in music retailing is that the number of dedicated music stores, which actually need to make money off of their CD sales in order to stay afloat, has declined by more than 30% since 1998.

A few years ago, Universal Music tried rolling back their prices across the board in hopes of stimulating CD sales. The experiment failed, they took a financial beating, and their pricing is now back in line with the rest of the industry. Across the board price cuts were not enough to stimulate demand to a point where increased unit sales could offset the revenue declines.

I've said all along that the record companies need to focus more on incentives to get consumers to buy CDs -- whether that's video content, online features, or high res tracks -- because with all these downloading options now available, consumers are not going to continue paying $15 to $18 for an audio-only experience, when DVDs offer up more interactive entertainment for not much more money. And if you're into console gaming, and are willing to wait a year or so, you can pick up video games for about $20 to $30 once they get rereleased as catalog titles.

[Groundbeef]

Beef, Toshiba is not really a player in disc pricing. They are a hardware company, so there is nothing they can do about the price of software. The bottom line is that it is still really expensive to author high definition disc. It is five times harder to author either formats disc than it was the DVD. BD-j require new tools, programmers have to be paid, and quality control has to be closely maintianed or you have playback issues. As it becomes easier to author, and programmers get better with coding disc, the prices will come down. Keep in mind, the drive for the studios is to get Bluray prices on par with current DVD pricing. That was going to be impossible with a format war still going on. .

Well, I am not sure you can correlate the lack of competition (HD-DVD dying) to a lowering of BR disk prices. Although Toshiba wasn't in the disk market, they did offer a choice to the market place. I would venture a guess that as HD-DVD dies, the proliferation (sp?) of BOGO offers of BR will dry up like a Texas Tumbleweed. If you don't need to give them away, why do it?

Besides, BR was already selling more disks, so experience curve learning should be going on regardless of HD-DVD. Granted, economies of scale may advance quicker, but that won't translate into a discount for the consumer (most likely).

I do not know if you know this, but the record companies were fined pretty heavily for collusion in the pricing of CD. They are now being investigated for price collusion for digital downloads. If they could have held prices at $16-18 forever, they would have. Keep in mind, the disc prices of both formats is roughly the same, so no matter which format won, prices would still be $25 at least for the near future. If you have been paying any attention to pricing lately, prices have dropped in some cases $5 a disc.

Yes, fully aware. I think I got something like $20 in the mail when I joined up on the class action settlement. But the fact remains, if there is no HD-DVD, there is less incentive for prices to fall. After all, remeber HD (either format) was developed to shore up falling margins and market as the DVD enters its mature phase. The prices and margins were to be saving grace of the studios. Not lower more competive prices for consumers.

I generally pay around $12 for a CD, but I don't buy many anyway. Just pick up one or 2 at BB when on sale.

[Groundbeef]

At least Warner made their announcement before Bill Gates' keynote at CES, where he was supposedly set to announce an ultimate Xbox 360 with an integrated HD-DVD drive (about two years too late). The Digital Bits is reporting that as much as 30% of Gates' original speech was related to HD-DVD, but once Warner's went Blu-ray exclusive, Microsoft apparently purged all HD-DVD references from Gates' speech.

.

There was quite a bit of speculation PRIOR to CES about the "ultimate" 360. MS actually batted that idea down before the CES, unusual, as they normally don't comment about rumors.

The HD-DVD wouldn't add a bit to the 360 game experience, and only serve to increase the cost of the unit. MS has been handing Sony its ass, and pricing is a big part to the sales differential. Most recent data suggest MS outsold Sony PS3 3-1 over the holiday time frame (Thanksgiving to Christmas). Thats a sound beating, and in no small part due to the nearly $100+ difference between units.

MS would be crazy to integrate the format. Now they can release a BR add-on as they have never ruled out.

[pixelthis]

There was quite a bit of speculation PRIOR to CES about the "ultimate" 360. MS actually batted that idea down before the CES, unusual, as they normally don't comment about rumors.

The HD-DVD wouldn't add a bit to the 360 game experience, and only serve to increase the cost of the unit. MS has been handing Sony its ass, and pricing is a big part to the sales differential. Most recent data suggest MS outsold Sony PS3 3-1 over the holiday time frame (Thanksgiving to Christmas). Thats a sound beating, and in no small part due to the nearly $100+ difference between units.

MS would be crazy to integrate the format. Now they can release a BR add-on as they have never ruled out.

If micro and soft does go blu, it will be a good thing that the windows on toshibas
office tower won't open.
And your concern about high disc prices are unwarranted.
They arent high now, a recession is coming and raising prices in such an enviroment would be suicidal.
And remember , DVD was a rare moment of sanity in the electronics world, where a format was universaly agreed on, if any situation was ripe for price gouging that was it.
But today you can get some decent quality movies for five bucks and up, and new titles sell for fourteen or so.
And finally, your HDDVD player wont be such a bad investment, you'll be able to build quite a libary with all of the HDDVD DISC firesales that will be soon going on

[emaidel]

In July, I took a chance and bought a Toshiba HDA-20K HD player. I guess the facts that it was a good deal less expensive than any Blue-Ray player available at the time, and that Microsoft was the technology behind it were determining factors.

Then, I started to discover how difficult it was to find HD discs. Blockbuster doesn't rent them, but Netflix does, though whenever I order an HD title from Netflix, it always states "very long wait" on my queue.

One thing I haven't seen any definitive answer on is this: which format is better? From all that I've read, each is as good as the other - the end result is accomplished via a different road.

The Toshiba player is agonizingly slow to start up, and HD discs also seem to take forever to load and start playing. Skipping from one track to another also takes a very long time. Regular DVD's, however, look astonishingly good, sometimes just as good as an HD version, and to me, that's the best feature about this player.

Does anyone have any information, other than gut feelings, as to the up-grading capabilities of Blue-Ray vs. HD-DVD? Until more titles are available in both (or only one) formats, it's the up-grading that is of the most importance to me at this point.

[GMichael]

Yet another domino seems ready to fall. Paramount following Warner out the HD DVD door?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07...e-hd-dvd-door/

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Well, I am not sure you can correlate the lack of competition (HD-DVD dying) to a lowering of BR disk prices. Although Toshiba wasn't in the disk market, they did offer a choice to the market place. I would venture a guess that as HD-DVD dies, the proliferation (sp?) of BOGO offers of BR will dry up like a Texas Tumbleweed. If you don't need to give them away, why do it?

Actually you can correlate the lack of competition to the lowering of disc prices. With just one format, developement tools for BD-j will advance much quicker. The cost of authoring will drop because it will take fewer man hours to code the disc, and that will help prices drop. The longer this war went on, the harder it is for studios to reach this goal. There does not have to be a war for prices to drop. With the DVD there was no war, and prices came down just like they will here. There is going to be competition. Studios now have to compete to sell disc just like in the theater selling tickets. Manufacturers still have to compete with player prices, just like they did with DVD. What good is bogo when overall disc prices will fall. Bogo are short term bandaids. A drop in prices because of economy of scale is a long term solution.

Besides, BR was already selling more disks, so experience curve learning should be going on regardless of HD-DVD. Granted, economies of scale may advance quicker, but that won't translate into a discount for the consumer (most likely).

Welcome to being an early adopter. If you are worried about prices at this point, you probably got into the technology too early. These prices do not bother me as I was an early adopter to DVD. With the except of the war, I see no difference between the beginnings of DVD, and the emergence of Bluray as the next gen format.

Yes, fully aware. I think I got something like $20 in the mail when I joined up on the class action settlement. But the fact remains, if there is no HD-DVD, there is less incentive for prices to fall. After all, remeber HD (either format) was developed to shore up falling margins and market as the DVD enters its mature phase. The prices and margins were to be saving grace of the studios. Not lower more competive prices for consumers.

Beef, where were you when the DVD got its start? You seem to have forgotten that the first DVD players where $1200?. Two years later they were about $500. There was no war then. Do you remember disc prices being $35? You now can get a DVD for $14. There was no war then. Why in the heck do you think it takes a format war for prices to drop?

If all HD was developed for was to shore up falling margins, why in the hell do you think Toshiba killed prices so fast? Why do you think they would absorb $400 million dollars in losses if the only goal is to shore up margins. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The studios don't make players, so player prices mean nothing to them. What they are looking for is extra copy protection that could not be accomplished on the DVD platform. It was the mamufacturers that wanted to increase unit margins because they are not making any money from DVD sales. This is why no manufacturer other than Toshiba was willing to jump on the HD DVD bandwagon. Manufacturers like to recoup R&D costs before price cutting starts, that is why their are so many manufacturers in the bluray camp.

I generally pay around $12 for a CD, but I don't buy many anyway. Just pick up one or 2 at BB when on sale.

I have to admit, I haven't bought a CD in ages.

[Groundbeef]

Actually you can correlate the lack of competition to the lowering of disc prices. With just one format, developement tools for BD-j will advance much quicker. The cost of authoring will drop because it will take fewer man hours to code the disc, and that will help prices drop. The longer this war went on, the harder it is for studios to reach this goal. There does not have to be a war for prices to drop. With the DVD there was no war, and prices came down just like they will here. There is going to be competition. Studios now have to compete to sell disc just like in the theater selling tickets. Manufacturers still have to compete with player prices, just like they did with DVD. What good is bogo when overall disc prices will fall. Bogo are short term bandaids. A drop in prices because of economy of scale is a long term solution. .

I'm having a difficult time squaring "lack of competition" to "Lowering of disc prices". I would prefer many players in the market. I'm not particularly concerned about the pocket book of the studios involved.

Whether Paramount is in the BR camp doesn't affect how Fox authors movies to disc. If anything, the competition compells studios to find more efficent, and cost effective methods to do the work. Not less competition.

Welcome to being an early adopter. If you are worried about prices at this point, you probably got into the technology too early. These prices do not bother me as I was an early adopter to DVD. With the except of the war, I see no difference between the beginnings of DVD, and the emergence of Bluray as the next gen format. .

Well, there is some debate. You have excellent equipement, a trained ear, and can appreciate the subtle differences in video playback. With VHS vs DVD, any swinging d*ck could also. With DVD, vs "Upscaled DVD", vs BR, I would be willing to bet BR is going to have a harder time convincing the huddled masses to shell out $300+ for a player and $25-$30 a movie, compared to a >$100 "upconverter" and a $15 sale DVD.

I'm not suggesting HD-DVD is going to come back from the dead, but I hardly thing either format at this time has a secure future. BR just is a little brighter.

Beef, where were you when the DVD got its start? You seem to have forgotten that the first DVD players where $1200?. Two years later they were about $500. There was no war then. Do you remember disc prices being $35? You now can get a DVD for $14. There was no war then. Why in the heck do you think it takes a format war for prices to drop? .

I can remeber when VHS machines were the size of a coffee table, the remote was corded, and the tapes (TAPES!!!) were $100.

I don't think a war is "required" for prices to fall, but lets be honest. No studio, or hardware mfg was 1)expecting, 2) wanting prices to fall as quickly as they did.

If all HD was developed for was to shore up falling margins, why in the hell do you think Toshiba killed prices so fast? Why do you think they would absorb $400 million dollars in losses if the only goal is to shore up margins. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The studios don't make players, so player prices mean nothing to them. What they are looking for is extra copy protection that could not be accomplished on the DVD platform. It was the mamufacturers that wanted to increase unit margins because they are not making any money from DVD sales. This is why no manufacturer other than Toshiba was willing to jump on the HD DVD bandwagon. Manufacturers like to recoup R&D costs before price cutting starts, that is why their are so many manufacturers in the bluray camp. .

Sometimes when a ship is sinking, you may as well try and sink the other guy as well. It would be foolish to not consider personal pride, as well as a little vindictiveness to be working here. Set a price so low as to get consumers used to a $$ figure, and then let the other guy suck it up in the end.

In effect, you are suggesting the BR mfgs were colluding to artificially keep prices high. If you have any documentation of this you need to forward to your nearest SEC, FBI, and Congress man. If thats the case, go Toshiba. Force prices lower.

Either way, BR has probably won this war. Now we shall see if its a phyricc victory (will physical formats rule supreme or not?)

[Woochifer]

Yet another domino seems ready to fall. Paramount following Warner out the HD DVD door?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07...e-hd-dvd-door/

Ooops! Sorry to steal your thunder GM, I just started a thread on this topic!

[GMichael]

Hope no one minds if I pop in a few of my thoughts here.

I'm having a difficult time squaring "lack of competition" to "Lowering of disc prices". I would prefer many players in the market. I'm not particularly concerned about the pocket book of the studios involved.

Whether Paramount is in the BR camp doesn't affect how Fox authors movies to disc. If anything, the competition compells studios to find more efficient, and cost effective methods to do the work. Not less competition.

Until there is one HD format, neither will be competition for DVD's. Once BR or HD-DVD goes bye bye, the real price drops can start. More 3rd party manufactures will get involved with making hardware. Disk manufactures can gear up for one product instead of two (or in most cases, waiting till there was just one). This is the beginning of the competition, not the end.

Well, there is some debate. You have excellent equipment, a trained ear, and can appreciate the subtle differences in video playback. With VHS vs DVD, any swinging d*ck could also. With DVD, vs "Upscaled DVD", vs BR, I would be willing to bet BR is going to have a harder time convincing the huddled masses to shell out $300+ for a player and $25-$30 a movie, compared to a >$100 "upconverter" and a $15 sale DVD.

You have a point here. Not everyone will jump on the band wagon right away. But more and more people are interested in HD these days. Much more than SACD ever saw. If you watch sports at all you know that half the commercials are about HD this or that. BB and CC are pushing it big time.

I'm not suggesting HD-DVD is going to come back from the dead, but I hardly thing either format at this time has a secure future. BR just is a little brighter.

I'm thinking, a lot brighter, but let's not split hairs. I don't think that downloads are ready to take over just yet.

I can remember when VHS machines were the size of a coffee table, the remote was corded, and the tapes (TAPES!!!) were $100.

Me too, and they cost a ton at first. DVD was out of this world when they first came out as well.

I don't think a war is "required" for prices to fall, but lets be honest. No studio, or hardware mfg was 1)expecting, 2) wanting prices to fall as quickly as they did.

Maybe.

Sometimes when a ship is sinking, you may as well try and sink the other guy as well. It would be foolish to not consider personal pride, as well as a little vindictiveness to be working here. Set a price so low as to get consumers used to a $$ figure, and then let the other guy suck it up in the end.

But not if you're planning on getting on that boat for the ride home. Tosh may have just been trying to cut their losses. Why sit with thousand of players on the shelf collecting dust. Even if it cost them $200 each to make, getting $100 each back beats the h'll out of $0. Or they may have felt that putting their HD-DVD players in more homes would push up S/W demands and force studios to go HD-DVD. Then the loss may have been worth it. But it still feel that this move put off many hardware manufactures.

In effect, you are suggesting the BR mfgs were colluding to artificially keep prices high. If you have any documentation of this you need to forward to your nearest SEC, FBI, and Congress man. If that's the case, go Toshiba. Force prices lower.

I don't think Sony pushed there prices up. I think they just didn't artificially force prices down as Tosh did. Tosh went so low that none of the 3rd party hardware manufacturers could make a profit selling HD-DVD players. BR just didn't lower there prices as much. This way 3rd party manufactures will want to join the party. One of those 3rd parties may end up being Tosh.

Either way, BR has probably won this war. Now we shall see if its a phyricc victory (will physical formats rule supreme or not?)

It looks like they are winning this part of the war. Taking on DVD's may be a tougher road. Downloads may very well be the winner eventually. But not this year.

[GMichael]

Ooops! Sorry to steal your thunder GM, I just started a thread on this topic!

No problem. We could use all the topics we can get around here.

Thanks for caring though. I owe you a green one.

[L.J.]

Geez, what's with all the gloom? The complaining is just never gonna stop, is it? I've been reading at other sites and there are just hundreds and hundreds of posts of people attacking each other and fighting. It's not like they're gonna get a check at the end of the week or something(well, maybe SirT will). I knew this was going on, but never paid much attention to it. For some reason, I thought the war ending would be a good thing I just don't see the problem. No one is being forced to jump into either format.