Old Records Are Outselling New Ones

[E-Stat]

I suppose this was RGA's main point.

And that you CAN find more expensive to produce 180g vinyl for those artists, but not just another shiny disc.

Shostakovich is a favorite of mine ... gets my vote for greatest 20th century composer. But arguably there been more great, (not to mention very fine), composers of classical music in the 20th century than any previous.

Do you like Copeland?

Check out Shostakovich' chamber music. He wrote 15 string quartets that are amongst the finest in that genre; No. 8 and 10 are likely the most famous. Other really great chamber works are Piano Quintet G Minor Op.57, Piano Trio No.2, E minor Op. 67, and Sonata for cello & piano in D min Op.40.

Thanks for the tips!

[mlsstl]

My favorite Shostakovich story is from "Musicophilia" by Dr. Oliver Sacks. During WWII Shostakovich was in the fire brigade in St. Petersburg (Leningrad) and received a shrapnel injury to his brain from an incoming German shell.

Medical services were poor and they couldn't remove the metal at that time. He healed with the shrapnel in place but discovered that when he tilted his head a certain way, he heard original music.

After the war, Russian doctors offered to remove the metal piece, but Shostakovich refused -- he feared he would lose his muse.

His life story is also a good illustration of just how fickle the Soviets were in terms of attempting to control art and music in official support of their ideology.

[Feanor]

My favorite Shostakovich story is from "Musicophilia" by Dr. Oliver Sacks. During WWII Shostakovich was in the fire brigade in St. Petersburg (Leningrad) and received a shrapnel injury to his brain from an incoming German shell.

Medical services were poor and they couldn't remove the metal at that time. He healed with the shrapnel in place but discovered that when he tilted his head a certain way, he heard original music.

After the war, Russian doctors offered to remove the metal piece, but Shostakovich refused -- he feared he would lose his muse.

His life story is also a good illustration of just how fickle the Soviets were in terms of attempting to control art and music in official support of their ideology.

This is not a story I've ever heard before. But in any case Shostakovich had a long, tense history with Soviet authorities. As a matter of self-preservation he developed the habit of lying about what motivated his music and what the music represented

[mlsstl]

This is not a story I've ever heard before. But in any case Shostakovich had a long, tense history with Soviet authorities. As a matter of self-preservation he developed the habit of lying about what motivated his music and what the music represented

I've seen other references to his WWII time in Leningrad with some mentioning an injury, but this is the only account I've read with these details. That's why I gave the reference, (though authenticating the biographic details of composers' lives is not a hobby of mine.)

Dr. Sacks is a well respected writer on things involving the brain and "Musicophilia" is a fascinating book on many levels. It's a great read if you like that sort of stuff.

[Feanor]

I've seen other references to his WWII time in Leningrad with some mentioning an injury, but this is the only account I've read with these details. That's why I gave the reference, (though authenticating the biographic details of composers' lives is not a hobby of mine.)

Dr. Sacks is a well respected writer on things involving the brain and "Musicophilia" is a fascinating book on many levels. It's a great read if you like that sort of stuff.

I wasn't questioning the story, BTW.

[Feanor]

...
Do you like Copeland?
...

I like Copland though have only a couple of recordings. One is the classic Louis Lane & Atlanta Symphony recording on Telarc that includes Rodeo, Appalachian Spring, and Fanfare for the Common Man. I consider it a example of early but remarkably good RBCD.

[E-Stat]

I like Copland though have only a couple of recordings. One is the classic Louis Lane & Atlanta Symphony recording on Telarc that includes Rodeo, Appalachian Spring, and Fanfare for the Common Man. I consider it a example of early but remarkably good RBCD.

I have that version too, both on vinyl and CD. As a former resident of Atlanta, I've been to one of Lane's performances of that piece.

While that is likely the best sounding version of the three I have, my favorite version is Aaron Copland conducing himself with the LSO in 1970. The performance is crisper and more emotional to these ears. Once again, I have it on both vinyl and CD. Oddly though, the 2003 remaster contained a different mix of other stuff. The original vinyl release also had the Henry Fonda narrated version of Lincoln Portrait while the CD remaster included Rodeo and Old American Songs

The original cover with Lincoln on it and the remaster with Copland himself.

[RGA]

The only way these formats take off is if you actually produce albums that SELL. It doesn't matter if Madonna's CD was compressed - this is the biggest selling female artist out there since the 1980s - Lady Gaga is the current biggest selling artist along with say Adele who certainly has the voice quality for pop that deserves a good recording - unfortunately the recordings tend to suck but that still isn't the point. There must be a non sucky master around someplace because they manage to come up with remasters of many mainstream pop/rock artists and wouldn't you know they're not uncompressed dredge but 5/5 star caliber as good as a Patricia Barber disc as you can get.

Ok Jackson isn't a big seller - and Sarah sort of fell off a cliff for me after "Surfacing" but it's not the point.

Old farts and a tiny minority of old farts listening to Mozart (and we're knocking Jackson for being old - at least he hasn't been dead for centuries - is not going to be able to satisfy the Sony/Philips marketing machine.

Young people weren't interested. It's not about recording quality either since in most cases all the classical and Jazz artists ALSO come out on vinyl as well. You get all the old fart music AND you get the mainstream bubble gum pop - and the alternative rock - and the underground trance/house hip-hop dub step etc. (DJ's kept vinyl alive - not audiophile - though there are certainly FAR FAR more audiophiles into vinyl than SACD).

It's not that SACD is bad or anything - it's just that they failed miserably to market it properly.

Any new format that you want to "take over" the world by storm you have to START with mainstream music and convince people through auditions that it is vastly superior (especially if you charge double for it). Even if you have to cheat and put out truly lousy recordings on CD and then remaster it put it out on SACD and blow the CD to the weeds. No instead stores came out demoing Hotel California - which is patently ****ty on SACD and that was the "young person's" music - chortle chortle.

Adele might be a target market - she's a bit different than usual pop - good voice but her recordings are dreadful - Make a brilliant recording put it out as a remaster on SACD and have a B&M that will demonstrate why it's better.

I have several Madonna LP's that walk all over most any recording period - not compressed massive dynamic scale. Hell even her CDs up to Ray of Light have been quite good - then they went to piss - I even tried a vinyl of Hard Candy - not that I liked the album but I basically wanted the thing just to have it and unfortunately the vinyl sucks as well (for sound).

But if you want to know why people like vinyl over CD - listen to the LP of Sarah McLachlan's "Touch" versus the CD. What a fraking drubbing that is. Or 45s of Vogue or anything Like A prayer or before versus CD. And this is just pop - Jazz it's even more embarrassing.

Hi res is better but of course there is no selection. I looked through the SACD catalog - it's painful. Fortunately Blu-Ray may be the answer in time.

[Feanor]

...
But if you want to know why people like vinyl over CD - listen to the LP of Sarah McLachlan's "Touch" versus the CD. What a fraking drubbing that is. Or 45s of Vogue or anything Like A prayer or before versus CD. And this is just pop - Jazz it's even more embarrassing.

Hi res is better but of course there is no selection. I looked through the SACD catalog - it's painful. Fortunately Blu-Ray may be the answer in time.

I'd be fine with Blu-ray, hi-rez download, or SACD; vinyl, no way.

Sir Terrence protests notwithstanding, Blu-ray music is next to non-existent. Hi-rez downloads are likewise extremely scarce. SACD is also very scarce except to classical where it is merely quite limited.

[emaidel]

. SACD is also very scarce except to classical where it is merely quite limited.

I have to disagree. There are currently over 6,000 titles on SACD, mosty classical. Go to arkivmusic.com and check under "SuperAudio CD," and you'll find an extensive listing of classical titles available. Also, the BIS label produces exclusively SACD's (no CD's or LP's) and continues to release new titles on a regular basis.

[mlsstl]

I have to disagree. There are currently over 6,000 titles on SACD, mosty classical. Go to arkivmusic.com and check under "SuperAudio CD," and you'll find an extensive listing of classical titles available. Also, the BIS label produces exclusively SACD's (no CD's or LP's) and continues to release new titles on a regular basis.

6,000 sounds like a real big number until you consider that an Amazon search for classical CDs shows over 389,000 titles. SACD albums represent only 0.15% of what's available on CD.

No doubt that the current "big" classical titles have decent coverage, but that still leaves an enormous amount of classical music -- over 99% -- only available on CD. (Out-of-print LPs have been intentionally left out of this discussion, but including them would only make the situation worse for SACD.)

[E-Stat]

I looked through the SACD catalog - it's painful. Fortunately Blu-Ray may be the answer in time.

Forget boomers like me who grew up with vinyl and were the ones who largely bought SACD and BR music.

Do you honestly believe the majority of Millenials will embrace the notion of putting down their iPods and actually having to spin a shiny disk for each piece of music they want to hear? Always carry around their Case Logic tote with their collection? It's one thing to do that once every two hours to watch a movie. For each song? It is they who will determine what will survive in the market, not hi-fi geeks like us.

As for me, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that will ever come to pass. The genie is already out of the bottle. For geezers like me, too. This week, I just replaced the ten year old GamuT CD-1 upstairs with an Audio Research DAC and another Squeezebox Touch network player.

[emaidel]

I like Copland though have only a couple of recordings. One is the classic Louis Lane & Atlanta Symphony recording on Telarc that includes Rodeo, Appalachian Spring, and Fanfare for the Common Man. I consider it a example of early but remarkably good RBCD.

That was the very first CD I bought when I bought my first CD player back in 1984. It always impressed the snot out of me, but the DSD-remastered, 2-channel SACD version of it is remarkable. There used to be sites where you could actually purchase that SACD for $5 or less, but I think today it's virtually impossible to find since Telarc no longer exists thanks to the "wisdom" of Concord Music, who purchased them and managed to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Feanor]

That was the very first CD I bought when I bought my first CD player back in 1984. It always impressed the snot out of me, but the DSD-remastered, 2-channel SACD version of it is remarkable. There used to be sites where you could actually purchase that SACD for $5 or less, but I think today it's virtually impossible to find since Telarc no longer exists thanks to the "wisdom" of Concord Music, who purchased them and managed to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Hi, emaidel, it was nice to hear from you.

Indeed, ArkivMusic has a great selection of SACDs, but their 3200 is a far cry from the many tens of thousands of CDs, including over 10,000 "ArkivCD" which are otherwise discontinued and only available from ArkivMusic.

In fact CD and SACD versions of the Telarc Copland are still available from Amazon.com, see HERE. This is a good thing.