Obama Asks Congress to Delay Digital TV Switch

[BradH]

If you then also add to that the charged political climate with all the McCain supporters representing the vast majority of these folks (kind of funny how that works out, huh?). Many of these folks (Pix, this is you) having stocked up on guns and bullets in the last few months, and you throw in the unemployment numbers, the homeless, a couple of strikes, a demonstration or two (SAG, Teamsters, Pro-Israel/Pro-Palestine, whatever),...

It would appear you're no stranger to "chaos mongering" yourself. You're also giving the Powers That Be too much credit for thinking about this in any strategic way. This is a common trait among people on the left and far right who obsess over imagined govt/corporate conspiracy theories. The federal govt. just isn't that smart or organized. Think about it: The masses already had televisions. If the govt. was so desparate to give them their opium they wouldn't have pushed for a switch to HDTV, at least certainly not in this drastic way with no downward compatibility like color in the '60's.

[bobsticks]

Now imagine the same thing, but this time it's just the poor uneducated masses roaming the streets.

That's a fairly proto-fascitic thing to type for a libertarian...hehehe. Seriously, though I think you're underestimating the resourcefulness of addicts, and by stating that I am recognizing the validity of your cribbed Marxist header. We're not talking about $500.00 or $1000.00 dollars, we're talking about 40 bucks. Any smackhead can come up with that.



(Thread Cross Alert)

Granted, I wouldn't want to claim pix either but when did anti-gun ownership formally become part of the Libertarian platform?

[Feanor]

Feanor,

I may be a progressive, but with moderation, my friend. ...

Oh, trust me, there's a whole lot of people who would much rather have that old reliable opiate in place to keep people glued to their TVs. Let's admit, that all of us also would prefer that. Well maybe not Pix, but he's special.

Me, I'm very progressive but I'm not a soft touch bleeding heart. If anything, I'd have just said "Digital only starting February '09: live with it". No $40 coupon, piss on ya.

Fears of an armed uprising on account of digital are apocryphal. On the other hand, no so much so on account of other problems the US has got. Can't blame the unwashed: it's all really the fault of the global economy, the rich, and a$$hole, head-in-the-ground, right-wing politicians. There have been plenty of a$$hole "liberal" politicians too, but their assholishness pales by comparison.

[Mr Peabody]

[QUOTE=BradH]Wait a minute, something doesn't add up. 14 million coupons expired and they still ran out of money? WTF??

Now there's a good observation.

[pixelthis]

Feanor,

I may be a progressive, but with moderation, my friend. I would rather let technology companies set the pace of change than let a sudden, and thus much more disruptive, switch do it overnight. There are enough examples in our history where a sudden change mandated by an overzealous government has caused more hardship than if the change was allowed to happen more slowly. Granted, corporations have also been guilty of this, but the real problem is with how sudden the change occurs. Society doesn't take kindly to that. Kind of like the difference between yelling fire in a crowded theater or asking people to leave calmly - surely we all agree that that second option will result in less problems all around.

Yes, I hear the chaos-mongers here screaming for someone to just flip the switch. But the fact is that they have either already purchased a digital medium or have the means to do without. If we were talking about something that would have the same result but would affect them too - something like a national day without power for example, they'd be reaching for their shotguns and raising the flag of rebellion yelling "Not on my watch!" Let's face it, very few of us are capable of turning off our TVs and stereos for a whole day. For the poor folks in South Texas, Appalachia, Indian Reservations, the inner cities, and our forgotten rural America, the TV is the stereo, the HT, and the entirety of the entertainment system; and they don't spend $150 a month on it, they get it OTA. Flipping the switch for this large underrepresented population will probably not be good for anyone.

Now, with that said, we're talking about TV, here. Mr. P brings up a good point that a day without it could be good for all of us and I would probably support such a proposal. But that ignores the wishes & fears of the broadcasters, the advertisers, and also our government. They all have their reasons for keeping people off the streets and captive to their consumerist pitches. Let's not forget that the biggest, most wasteful consumers in our society are also our poorest and least educated masses. Yes the upper crust buys up a lot or higher-priced goods, but the largest numbers of small, consumable, and low-quality goods and services are purchased by the poorer, less educated masses, and that stuff is hawked on the boob-tubes of America. It's not the "news" that the corporations and government want people to continue to receive from their programming, but the commercials in between the news. Commercials serve two purposes: they create demand for goods and services and they stupefy the viewers to keep watching in their homes.

I distinctly remember the last time we had rolling black-outs here in SoCal. I saw more people on the streets during those times than I ever saw before - it was almost surreal. Now imagine the same thing, but this time it's just the poor uneducated masses roaming the streets. Think the government wants that? Think businesses want that? No, not really. If you then also add to that the charged political climate with all the McCain supporters representing the vast majority of these folks (kind of funny how that works out, huh?). Many of these folks (Pix, this is you) having stocked up on guns and bullets in the last few months, and you throw in the unemployment numbers, the homeless, a couple of strikes, a demonstration or two (SAG, Teamsters, Pro-Israel/Pro-Palestine, whatever), and then just for good measure you toss in a controversial police shooting in SF, and you have the makings of a real problem. We can go even further, if you like: the National Guard is deployed on the other side of the globe, states can't afford to pay police officers, firefighters, and ambulance drivers, and for an extra little bit of spice we'll inaugurate the first black president in history.

Oh, trust me, there's a whole lot of people who would much rather have that old reliable opiate in place to keep people glued to their TVs. Let's admit, that all of us also would prefer that. Well maybe not Pix, but he's special.

OVERNIGHT???
They have been planning this for over a decade, and have put it off twice!
So when are they going to get around to this, finally.
And where is the logic in making 300 million wait for 7 million?
Oh, I forgot, you liberals(or progressives, or whatever) are above logic.

[pixelthis]

Pix, again, an excellent display of tact. I'm sure that not everyone who uses OTA is not receiving food stamps.

Saying "liberals think they're above the law" after the actions of the outgoing administration is so hypocritical I am left without words to even fire on you with. Not to mention the Reagan years, or Nixon.

Then if they dont think they are above the law, then why are they calvileary talking about
reneging on it?


You and others DONT GET IT.
Neither does your new. clueless maximum leader.
The analog frequencies have been auctioned off.
There are NO "analog " channels to keep broadcasting on!

THOUSANDS of businesses have made plans for these channels, have paid BILLIONS
when they were auctioned off.
What are you gonna, tell em to just forget it ?
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THEY WILL GET IN DAMAGES?

We are talking Billions (with a capital B) here.
Contracts have beem signed, deals have been made.
The FCC has allocated these old analog channels to the new uses.
So if you decide to "hold off" on the transistion , what do you intend to broadcast the old analog channels ON?
CB radio?
And what are you going to broadcast WITH?
The stations have dismantled the analog gear, and a lot of it is heading for the third world
as we speak.
Typical delusional liberal, you want something you think you should get it by snapping
your fingers.
Well. AINT GONNA HAPPEN.
In Feb the analog stations ARE GOING DARK.
NOT DIM LIKE YOUR TYPICAL LIBERAL CONCIOUSNESS ...
DARK

[bobsticks]

OVERNIGHT???
They have been planning this for over a decade, and have put it off twice!
So when are they going to get around to this, finally.
And where is the logic in making 300 million wait for 7 million?
Oh, I forgot, you liberals(or progressives, or whatever) are above logic.

Pix is correct about this, as he is about the potential legal ramifications of continued delay...

...so in addition to thos sobering realities I leave this dead topic with one additional thought: it's forty freaking dollars! If one missed the many opportunities to take advantage of the government's largesse and still can't afford the measly two twenties, then maybe one could find some wiser and more productive use of their time than vegging in front of the tube.

And, if the streets fill with drooling zombies so be it...

[GMichael]

Sorry that I have not included myself in this thread until now. (or even after now) My input is this. I don't give a flying fig newton. There, I said it. I'll be out back if anyone wants to beat me up.

[bobsticks]

You'll care when the streets are full of zombies...

[BradH]

Now there's a good observation.

I just read La Maestra at HDTVMagazine.com. Check this out: the 22 million estimate of coupons was based on houses that had OTA only but the requirement to prove eligibility will only apply if Congress is asked for funds for an additional 11 million coupons. Meanwhile, the Feds got dinged by millions of cable/sat subscribers who had extra TV's in their house receiving OTA only.

I love it when a plan comes together.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!

[GMichael]

You'll care when the streets are full of zombies...

Have you been on the streets lately? Who would notice the change?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Yeah, zombies drive cars where I live.

OT: I'm with GM. Couldn't care less about OTA anymore.

[Duds]

I'm happy Obama is concentrating on this issue...

[GMichael]

True. It is way more important than anything else on his plate.

[nightflier]

OVERNIGHT???
They have been planning this for over a decade, and have put it off twice!

Government plans for decades for all kinds of stuff, but only when it actually acts (and that is seldom) do people get their panties in a bunch.

Sticks, you're starting to side more and more with Pix. Should someone call for an intervention?

And regarding the $40, my guess is that it's not just the money. It's also the fact that they have to request the voucher, then go to the store, pick one out, and then plug it in. Most of these folks stared for years at the flashing 12:00 on their VCR's, and the only reason they bought that DVD player at Walmart is because the supermarket rental wasn't carrying tapes anymore. These people aren't exactly the ones to propel the A/V industry forward - rather they are the ones that drag it down.

BradH,

I'm not saying that government is that smart and I'm certainly not suggesting conspiracies. What I am saying is that this is a particularly unusual time with a lot of events coming together into what could certainly become the perfect storm with the right kind of spark. Swarming, drooling zombies, I doubt it, but why tempt fate? I certainly don't think that the SDZ (for lack of a better term for swarming drooling zombies) is the reason for the delay, but I don't think the bow-tie bean-counters that advise Washington are stupid enough to ignore the added effect. Let's not forget that an unusually large percentage of the SDZ will be pissed-off gun-toting Bush/McCain supporters just itching for payback. But I'll give you that the main reason is simply that Washington doesn't have the money, or that they did and used it for something else (typical).

Regarding the lawsuits, I'm sure that once the first lawyers start appearing at the white house door, Obama will go ahead and let the switch happen. Everything we've heard about him is that he respects people/corporations with deep pockets and he's no stranger to the legal process. My guess is that it will take a few weeks, maybe months and by then the factors I mentioned above will then be lessened. If anything, my guess is that he'll postpone it until after the spring sports, and I don't think the advertisers will mind so much, either. Maybe it will be a gradual switch-over. How many companies are really ready to start using the analog bandwidth they've purchased right away? Not too many, I'm guessing. Pix's fear mongering on this is overrated.

Speaking of pix,

And where is the logic in making 300 million wait for 7 million?

Seven million SDZ. That's no small number. Let's hope they stay in South Texas, or wherever Pix is from.

[Woochifer]

No clue...I know even less about Canadian broadcast regulations (other than I've developed a severe hate-on for the CRTC in the time I've been here)...Okay, I vaguely recall Canada had a later deadline to give its industry time to adjust and make sure the message got out. Prolly coulda done that by 2009 though.

The Canadian transition is supposed to happen sometime in 2011. They were smart by waiting to see what chaos ensues in the U.S. and then seeing how not to handle the DTV transition. There are several other countries due to begin their DTV transitions, but those are still years away. The U.S. is pretty much the guinea pig. The TV stations in my area have been running DTV signal tests and PSAs for months, but a lot of people won't know what it all means until the signal goes dark. And it's not just customers that watch TV with OTA antennas that are getting screwed with.

I know that the cable companies have been muddying the waters by not making it clear that people can still basic analog cable after the OTA signals get turned off. The $14 basic service in my neighborhood includes both the analog and digital signals for OTA stations, but Comcast doesn't even have information about this basic service on their website. They're trying to upsell everybody, including current customers, to digital cable, which is a lot more TV than people watching OTA signals want.

Yes, the vouchers were available upon the asking. Why would you order one if you weren't planning to use it within 90 days? I think that is enough time. They shouldn't be asking for them if they couldn't use it at the time. I wonder though if they dated them the day they went out in the mail or if a bunch was printed with a date. That would be a different story if you received a 90 day voucher and only a week was left.

Actually, I ordered one of the converter box vouchers because they were available and free, and I wasn't sure if one of our TVs would get moved into a room without a cable connection. I now got about 2 weeks left on the $40 coupon, and I'm not sure if I'll use it, give it to somebody who needs it, or just let it expire. From what I've seen, most of the converter boxes cost more than $40, and they are butt ugly so my wife will probably not want me to bring one into the house, regardless of whether or not I paid anything for it.

[Woochifer]

I just read La Maestra at HDTVMagazine.com. Check this out: the 22 million estimate of coupons was based on houses that had OTA only but the requirement to prove eligibility will only apply if Congress is asked for funds for an additional 11 million coupons. Meanwhile, the Feds got dinged by millions of cable/sat subscribers who had extra TV's in their house receiving OTA only.

I love it when a plan comes together.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!

Yep, I've got basic cable, satellite, AND a couple of $40 vouchers just in case I decide to move one of the TVs and use the OTA antenna!

[Smokey]

Yep, I've got basic cable, satellite, AND a couple of $40 vouchers just in case I decide to move one of the TVs and use the OTA antenna!

Dam it Wooch, you suppose to get the coupon if you only have OTA

I think that is where all trouble start. Households getting coupons that have satellite or cable also. I have cable with analog TV, and thinking of getting a coupon since cable company does not carry all of local digital channels.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Did you wash your hat yet tumbleweed?

[Mr Peabody]

I thought all the analog space left void after the switch was designated for emergency type agencies to use.

Tomorrow's front page: U.S. 2nd Civil War Sparked By No Analog TV To Watch.

Will garlic keep zombies away?

[Mr Peabody]

Remember Wooch, you only have 90 days.

[Smokey]

Did you wash your hat yet tumbleweed?

No.

As I said before, I will lose my seniority at the water cooler

[Luvin Da Blues]

I'm sure they would have assigned wider bandwidths for emergency use then auctioned of the remaining.

[pixelthis]

I thought all the analog space left void after the switch was designated for emergency type agencies to use.

Tomorrow's front page: U.S. 2nd Civil War Sparked By No Analog TV To Watch.

Will garlic keep zombies away?

no BUT LCD TV will.
All of the zombies are plasma fanboys

[BradH]

...but I don't think the bow-tie bean-counters that advise Washington are stupid enough to ignore the added effect. Let's not forget that an unusually large percentage of the SDZ will be pissed-off gun-toting Bush/McCain supporters just itching for payback.

The pissed-off-gun-toting Bush/McCain supporters aren't going to shoot anybody. I have to say, you have a binary, cartoon-like view of the political landscape that's as dark and extreme as pix's. The bean counters in Washington don't have that view, they just count beans. (My wife would kill me right about now, she's a CPA). I come down center-right on economics but foreign affairs is my thing. Given that, I couldn't in good conscience vote for either canditate this election, just couldn't do it. Just so you know where I stand.

Big O is asking for a 3-month extension but I don't think he cares either way. It's like his comments on the BCS poll, a little something to keep is name mentioned around the water cooler until inauguration day. There's a very important sports/performance element to politics & he's damn good at it. Meanwhile, Verizon is saying hell no, make the switch because too much planning & investment has been scheduled around it.