Looking for a Few Good Reviewers

[Mr Peabody]

Terry we have unfortunately had more than just a couple exchanges and each time reaffirms my impression that you are an idiot. Yes, that's personal but you have a way of bringing that out in me. You talk out of all sides of your mouth.

First of all if some of the $500k was spent on the room I'd assume it would have had, at least, as much acoustic care as yours.

Most CD players also use the same decoding chip yet there's a big difference in the players sound. I'll take your word for it that A/V DAC's are standard but even so there still is a big difference in sound between a receiver and a better processor and that's made in the analog stages and how the signal is treated after it's decoded. Like I said and it failed to sink into your head, Onkyo in my opinion is one of the better mass market receivers but the bottomline is you are still using a receiver preamp that pales in comparison to a real preamp processor. If you can't hear the difference sad for you but you look stupid waving the banner that all things are the same to those like me who know and can hear a difference. I don't have to prove one cable sounds better than another, I can hear a difference so therefore I'm convinced. It's up to each person to try a product and make up their own mind. How much of a difference depends on the gear and it's ability to reflect the difference in resolution. Who knows which camp a poster will be in but I can honestly tell them I can hear a difference in hopes they can and will benefit as well.

You are hearing impaired and closed minded which makes you dependent on your little gadgets and magazines to tell you what to think and if something is on or off. Others must be able to hear some differences as well as I based on the fact that the cable industry is flurrishing. If you are happy with your receiver then good for you but here's a newsflash your system isn't the benchmark that all other manufacturer's are striving to equal or beat. When it is then maybe you will have a point.

[Geoffcin]

Terry we have unfortunately had more than just a couple exchanges and each time reaffirms my impression that you are an idiot. Yes, that's personal but you have a way of bringing that out in me.

Rather than deleting your off topic & provocative post. However, this does not mean that Eric, or any other moderator won't delete it.

Please keep your personal feelings about another member off of this thread. If you would like to have a full-blown argument with anyone then post it to the Steel Cage forum.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Terry we have unfortunately had more than just a couple exchanges and each time reaffirms my impression that you are an idiot. Yes, that's personal but you have a way of bringing that out in me. You talk out of all sides of your mouth.

Man, you sure are easy to rattle. Actually what I said is a straight shot, not out of both sides of my mouth as you assert. And by the way, my name is not Terry, and if it was only my friends could call me that.

First of all if some of the $500k was spent on the room I'd assume it would have had, at least, as much acoustic care as yours.

The room had great acoustical control, just like mine does. Did it have 100,200, or 300% better control? No it didn't.

Most CD players also use the same decoding chip yet there's a big difference in the players sound.

I guess you missed the part in my statement when I said that any differences in the sound of most components comes from circuits either upstream or downstream of any digital conversion when chipsets are standardized.

I'll take your word for it that A/V DAC's are standard but even so there still is a big difference in sound between a receiver and a better processor and that's made in the analog stages and how the signal is treated after it's decoded.

I believe that is exactly what I said. However there are no guarantees that a more expensive processor will have a cleaner signal path than a good receiver does. And if you use a good receiver as a processor and not as a amplification device, there is no guarantee that a more expensive processor will perform better than it does. More cost does not always equal more performance. When you stop making unproved statements and listen, you'll find the performance of a well made receiver(using its pre-amp outputs) can sound as good as a pre-pro that costs twice as much. Does my receiver sound as good as a Theta Casablanca III? No, but does the Casablanca sound three times better? The answer is also no.

Like I said and it failed to sink into your head, Onkyo in my opinion is one of the better mass market receivers but the bottomline is you are still using a receiver preamp that pales in comparison to a real preamp processor.

Another statement that you'll have to prove. I am willing to bet that you could not tell the processing from my receiver from the processing of a more expensive preamp in a DBT test. And if you make claims such as you have, that is exactly what you'll have to do to convince me. Just because a product is as your term "mass market" does not mean it cannot equal the performance of a more expensive processor. Especially when the amplification stage is removed from the equation. The proof is in the ears, not in the wallet.

If you can't hear the difference sad for you but you look stupid waving the banner that all things are the same to those like me who know and can hear a difference.

I have worked in audio for about 20 years now. I have been doing custom installation for about 15 years. I have heard many claims of how something sounds better than another based on cost, and when you sit down to hear these components, the sound is only marginally better than a product that costs less. I sat down with Ray Kimber for 6 hours listening to his wires in a DBT setup. Using a high quality headphone preamp and a pair of Stax headphones, I could not hear the difference between any of his high buck cables. I am very skeptical when one makes claims that are totally unproven as you have.

By the way, I see dead people. If you don't believe me, then you cannot see well.

I don't have to prove one cable sounds better than another, I can hear a difference so therefore I'm convinced. It's up to each person to try a product and make up their own mind.

You haven't convinced me one bit. Anyone can convince themselves of anything. The key is to be able to convince others. You cannot prove anything by making statements such as " my expensive preamp is better than your mass market receiver" The proof is in the listening, not the chops flopping together.

How much of a difference depends on the gear and it's ability to reflect the difference in resolution. Who knows which camp a poster will be in but I can honestly tell them I can hear a difference in hopes they can and will benefit as well.

Have you ever heard of the power of suggestion? I would ask that you NOT give your opinion and let me listen for myself. If it were up to me to judge quality based on my hearing, your opinion is totally unnecessary.

You are hearing impaired and closed minded which makes you dependent on your little gadgets and magazines to tell you what to think and if something is on or off.

Unfortunately you are once again misinformed. My last hearing test confirmed that I could clearly hear all the way up to 16.5khz, and there is no more than 1db difference between each ear. Once again ignorant statements not based on fact are unhelpful in a online debate. I use the LED lights on my equipment to tell me if it is on or off.

Others must be able to hear some differences as well as I based on the fact that the cable industry is flurrishing. If you are happy with your receiver then good for you but here's a newsflash your system isn't the benchmark that all other manufacturer's are striving to equal or beat. When it is then maybe you will have a point.

The cable industry is flourishing because there is a fool born everyday. Have you ever heard me say that my system is the best there is? No, but I will tell you this, it performs alot better than you think. That is because unlike you I do not major in minors. I put a pretty good system in a great sounding room which yields excellent results. Your logic is akin to putting the cart before the horse. Just tell everyone to spend BIG money on equipment and forget the room.
Your Florian like comments bore me to tears. When I went to using seperate power amps, I tried 5 dedicated preamps in my system all more expensive than my receiver. I carefully compared each to my receiver using its own preamps. One processor costs $2,000 more than my receiver. Aside from a slight increase in the width of the soundstage, and a little more air around musical instruments, the more expensive processor didn't perform $2,000 worth of improvement. Any improvement was slight and subtle, but not worth the money. Unlike yourself I believe a component has to give me real value versus performance, not just cost alot.

I can hear the difference between Dolby digital and Dts. I can hear the difference between SACD and 24/96khz PCM. Depending on the music I can hear the difference between redbook CD and 24/48khz PCM. I can plainly hear the difference between different rooms and speakers. I can tell the difference between a quality(not expensive) subwoofer and a average performing subwoofer. I am paid to use my ears every day. However in the audio world a little skeptisizm is both healthy and essential. People like you are easily fooled and mislead. Anyone who believes that you just throw money at equipment and you'll get great sound is a complete fool. Anyone who believes that products on the high end of the "mass market" couldn't possibly sound as good as a $3,000 prepro is also a fool. While expensive stuff CAN buy you a little extra performance, there is a point of diminishing returns. In my experience the high cost stuff didn't always perform the best.

Just so you know I have a full 5.1 speaker package from Aerial Acoustics, 5 Dunlavy SC-V, and 3 highly customized Klipschorns, and 12 SR-70 surrounds speakers all in storage right now waiting to be installed in my soon to be built screening and mixing suite. I have owned or own amps and digital processors from Theta, Wadia, MM digital, and several other high end companies. I am no stranger to high end components. However they must perform well, and have value for the buck or they are nothing more than high cost boxes.