Lessons From The Death of HD-DVD

[Woochifer]

there is a rumour floating around here in australia that microsoft are in the mid stages of making a blu ray game console similar to that of the ps3. if this is true it makes you wonder how much effort they were putting into hd-dvd. it has only been a week and a half since toshibas announcement and already microsoft are building a blu ray console...seems suspiciously fast to me.

seems to be the old "secret underground basement" trick to me. i can see it now, three pale skinned engineers who rarely see the light of day building this console, being secretly funded by microsoft under the codename "aurora project" then one day... voila! a fully working model accompanied by the phrase " we knew bluray would win all along"

cheers: dazza

Sounds like a rumor campaign to me. A similar thread was started up in the High Def Digest forum with a linked story, except that the story is more than a year old! I think a lot of rumors got started up when Gates said last year that they'd be open to making a Blu-ray add-on available if HD-DVD lost the format war. I can see an add-on getting introduced, but not an integrated drive.

It would be relative easy for MS to integrate a Blu-ray drive into the console, but such a move would make little sense for a number reasons. First, it would bump up the price on the Xbox360, thus negating the console's price advantage over the PS3. Maybe it would come with an upgraded version, but not standard issue on all versions.

Also, Xbox360 games get published on DVD media. PS3 games use Blu-ray media. If the Xbox360 suddenly began using Blu-ray discs for games, that would leave existing Xbox360 owners out in the cold -- won't happen.

In actuality, I think Microsoft was about to announce a Xbox360 with an integrated HD-DVD drive at CES (and might even have a bunch of them already sitting in a warehouse somewhere), but those plans got scrapped when Warner dropped HD-DVD.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sounds like a rumor campaign to me. A similar thread was started up in the High Def Digest forum with a linked story, except that the story is more than a year old! I think a lot of rumors got started up when Gates said last year that they'd be open to making a Blu-ray add-on available if HD-DVD lost the format war. I can see an add-on getting introduced, but not an integrated drive.

It would be relative easy for MS to integrate a Blu-ray drive into the console, but such a move would make little sense for a number reasons. First, it would bump up the price on the Xbox360, thus negating the console's price advantage over the PS3. Maybe it would come with an upgraded version, but not standard issue on all versions.

Also, Xbox360 games get published on DVD media. PS3 games use Blu-ray media. If the Xbox360 suddenly began using Blu-ray discs for games, that would leave existing Xbox360 owners out in the cold -- won't happen.

In actuality, I think Microsoft was about to announce a Xbox360 with an integrated HD-DVD drive at CES (and might even have a bunch of them already sitting in a warehouse somewhere), but those plans got scrapped when Warner dropped HD-DVD.

From what I am hearing, they are having a bit of a struggle getting XBOX360 to work with a bluray drive. It seems that as powerful as the XBOX360 is, it does not do well trying to handle PCM, DTHD and Dts MA lossless and AVC serperately, or together. Its seems that AVC at high bit rates(what you would find on a Disney bluray titles) causes the processing to overload and shut down the machine. Using PCM, or any of the advance lossless codecs cause the audio to skip and jump around. The XBOX360 was optimized for games, not high resolution video sources. Its processing was designed for games, not high resolution audio and video, so getting it to function like the PS3 is proving very difficult for the designers to accomplish. Beef knows more about its gaming prowess than I do, but on the video side of things, it was not design to do what they are asking it to do apparently.

[Woochifer]

From what I am hearing, they are having a bit of a struggle getting XBOX360 to work with a bluray drive. It seems that as powerful as the XBOX360 is, it does not do well trying to handle PCM, DTHD and Dts MA lossless and AVC serperately, or together. Its seems that AVC at high bit rates(what you would find on a Disney bluray titles) causes the processing to overload and shut down the machine. Using PCM, or any of the advance lossless codecs cause the audio to skip and jump around. The XBOX360 was optimized for games, not high resolution video sources. Its processing was designed for games, not high resolution audio and video, so getting it to function like the PS3 is proving very difficult for the designers to accomplish. Beef knows more about its gaming prowess than I do, but on the video side of things, it was not design to do what they are asking it to do apparently.

Interesting, because I remember Gates' comments made it sound like a Blu-ray drive would be relatively easy to offer as an add-on. Of course, vaporware has historically been MS' specialty.

Overheating issues have been the bane of the Xbox360. A report from a couple of weeks ago by a warranty contractor indicated that the Xbox360 has a 16% failure rate, which is more than 5x greater than the Wii and the PS3. I guess that if the Blu-ray drive adds that much more of a load onto the processor, then it would make the heat issue worse.

[diggity]

i too thought it would be easy to integrate blu ray drive into xbox but that just goes to show how much i know about software...lol. i am just hoping that the next big improvement in blu ray isn't which game console does what, but for them to bring out a faster starting player. i hate waiting sooo looong just to play a dvd

cheers: dazza

[emaidel]

Here's another reason HD-DVD deserved to die: often, HD discs simply don't work! In the owner's manual for my Toshiba player, there's a statement to the effect that, "as this is a new technology, not all discs will play." Huh? Also, after having ordered the "Final Cut" on HD of "Blade Runner" through netflix, waiting several months while it was first listed as "very long wait," then "wait time unknown," to "unavailable," I found a multi-disc HD set at Target and bought it.

I waited a couple of months (I've been watching ALL the seasons of "24" in the meantime!) before openining up "Blade Runner, " and plopping it into my player. Well, last night I did just that. I was very impressed with the newly clear image, and very impressive sound for about 45 minutes, when the player simply stopped, and posted a prompt, "Cannot read or play disc." That was it. From then on, that disc, and the other HD discs in the set just sat in the player's drawer with no picture whatosever. Just to be sure, I put in an ordinary DVD, and it worked fine.

So, what's the use of a system whose player states that it won't always work, and whose software (which also had a statement in it that it might not work on all HD players) doesn't work either.

And just today, in the Sunday advertising supplements from the local paper, Sears is running a Toshiba HD player "on sale."

[bfalls]

Here's another reason HD-DVD deserved to die: often, HD discs simply don't work! In the owner's manual for my Toshiba player, there's a statement to the effect that, "as this is a new technology, not all discs will play." Huh? Also, after having ordered the "Final Cut" on HD of "Blade Runner" through netflix, waiting several months while it was first listed as "very long wait," then "wait time unknown," to "unavailable," I found a multi-disc HD set at Target and bought it.

I waited a couple of months (I've been watching ALL the seasons of "24" in the meantime!) before openining up "Blade Runner, " and plopping it into my player. Well, last night I did just that. I was very impressed with the newly clear image, and very impressive sound for about 45 minutes, when the player simply stopped, and posted a prompt, "Cannot read or play disc." That was it. From then on, that disc, and the other HD discs in the set just sat in the player's drawer with no picture whatosever. Just to be sure, I put in an ordinary DVD, and it worked fine.

So, what's the use of a system whose player states that it won't always work, and whose software (which also had a statement in it that it might not work on all HD players) doesn't work either.

And just today, in the Sunday advertising supplements from the local paper, Sears is running a Toshiba HD player "on sale."

I thought the same when I opened the HD-D3 I purchased, a second generation machine. Right on top they recommend you perform a software update. Then I open the manual and there again they recommend you upgrade. But what really surprised me is on both free movies that came with the player had the same recommendation. Wouldn't it be just as easy to put an upgrade disc in the box. Why make the consumer go through the trouble of either downloading the ISO upgrade, or request a disc from Toshiba.

This was my second player, the first was an HD-A2. It displayed the same symptoms as emaidel. Twice during playback of Tramsformers it stopped and locked up. Nothing but pulling the power plug would allow you to play a disc. It also would not play many standard DVDs.

[Groundbeef]

From what I am hearing, they are having a bit of a struggle getting XBOX360 to work with a bluray drive. It seems that as powerful as the XBOX360 is, it does not do well trying to handle PCM, DTHD and Dts MA lossless and AVC serperately, or together. Its seems that AVC at high bit rates(what you would find on a Disney bluray titles) causes the processing to overload and shut down the machine. Using PCM, or any of the advance lossless codecs cause the audio to skip and jump around. The XBOX360 was optimized for games, not high resolution video sources. Its processing was designed for games, not high resolution audio and video, so getting it to function like the PS3 is proving very difficult for the designers to accomplish. Beef knows more about its gaming prowess than I do, but on the video side of things, it was not design to do what they are asking it to do apparently.

Beef enters the room with a dumbfounded look on his face. Smiles for a moment, savors the compliment, then works up the nerve to comment.

I'm not really sure about the BR add-on. All that I have read indicated that they could offer a supplemental drive similar to the HD-DVD, but I haven't read information contridicting your above statement.

Perhaps it doesn't play nice with BR, but I didn't really buy it for that anyway. I've been looking for a standalone player...ya know one that doesn't play video games AND play BR movies. Kinda like a floor wax that is also a non-dairy whipped topping.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Beef enters the room with a dumbfounded look on his face. Smiles for a moment, savors the compliment, then works up the nerve to comment.

I'm not really sure about the BR add-on. All that I have read indicated that they could offer a supplemental drive similar to the HD-DVD, but I haven't read information contridicting your above statement.

Perhaps it doesn't play nice with BR, but I didn't really buy it for that anyway. I've been looking for a standalone player...ya know one that doesn't play video games AND play BR movies. Kinda like a floor wax that is also a non-dairy whipped topping.

Floor wax that is also non diary whipped topping?? Waaaahahahahahaha...LOLOL..too funny.

Well, Sony is coming out with two new players in the summer for under $500. And if this is just too cheap for you, Goldmund is coming out with a $16,500 bluray player that does everything including broadway shows.

[Groundbeef]

Floor wax that is also non diary whipped topping?? Waaaahahahahahaha...LOLOL..too funny.

Well, Sony is coming out with two new players in the summer for under $500. And if this is just too cheap for you, Goldmund is coming out with a $16,500 bluray player that does everything including broadway shows.

Forget Broadway shows....whats it do when you watch porn?

[GMichael]

Forget Broadway shows....whats it do when you watch porn?

That depends on how you set the pop-up blocker.

[Groundbeef]

That depends on how you set the pop-up blocker.

Why pray tell would you want a "Pop-Up Blocker" on when watching Porn? Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron?