Jon Bon Jovi slams iTunes for 'killing' music

[Woochifer]

Well, Bon Jovi's view is rather simplistic if he lays the industry's woes at the feet of Steve Jobs. The music industry has been impacted by a whole variety of different factors, most of which were very well documented in Frontline's 2004 The Way The Music Died documentary.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/music/

The trends described in that documentary (i.e., the shift in retailing towards big box, the consolidation in the radio industry, the lack of new exciting music, the end of the CD gravy train, illegal downloading, etc.) have all continued unabated, and that has affected the music industry and the retail side is collateral damage. The shift towards digital distribution is just the veritable straw that broke the camel's back -- music stores were already in big trouble well before the iTunes Music Store came along.

Another trend to look at is just how the music industry was artificially propped up by CD profits for years. Some would argue that the time in which the music industry created large profits was actually more of an anomaly. This chart shows that the CD's introduction indeed created an industry way larger than the historical trends.

[ForeverAutumn]

Well, Bon Jovi's view is rather simplistic if he lays the industry's woes at the feet of Steve Jobs. The music industry has been impacted by a whole variety of different factors, ...the lack of new exciting music

So basically, Bon Jovi is responsible for his own demise.

[Woochifer]

So basically, Bon Jovi is responsible for his own demise.

Yep! If you look at that chart, the 90s represented the zenith of several upward trends that were creating huge gains for the music industry.

- consumers, largely baby boomers, repurchasing their music libraries in the CD format. This created a huge cash flow from double dipping.
- the rise of hip-hop and alternative, two new musical trends that were brewing under the radar during the 80s, but went mainstream during the 90s, generating huge sales in the process. There has been no equivalent trend that has caught on over the past decade.

[pixelthis]

Browsing record stores was a special kind of experience, but so was waiting on SANTA.
There are certain things called "historical inevitable s", these thing are going to happen,
no use crying about whats past.
FOR INSTANCE, Davinci drew pictures of flying machines, but it wasn't until the
invention of the internal combustion engine that they could be built.
But after that, if the Wright bros didn't do it, someone else would have.
SAME WITH the atomic bomb. As soon as the first computer was built, analog recording
was doomed. There might be a few FREMMERS out there, holding on with their fingernails,
but gramophones are gone, so are eight tracks, and soon, CD's.
And in a few decades , if anybody bothers to think about it, no one will understand what
the fuss was about.
Buying records during the fifties/seventies was a special thing, and I will never forget it.
But, like experiences that other generations loved that are fading, its about over.
BON jOVI IS BEING both greedy and childish. FOR a long time the industry sold
discs that cost a few bucks to make for ten times the cost, sometimes.
This fueled an extravagant lifestyle. Recording artists, and their hangers on, lived
like kings while teachers starved. Losing all of the hooker/drug money might be
a main reason for Jovies rant.
IN ANY EVENT, the day of recorded media is passing, JOB'S was just smart enough,
with enough capital, to take advantage. Good for him.
BUT THE POINT is that if he didn't do it, somebody else would have.
He didnt even speed up the process, you can blame that on CD's that were
way overpriced for what they delivered.

[Smokey]

Browsing record stores was a special kind of experience, but so was waiting on SANTA. There are certain things called "historical inevitable s", these thing are going to happen, no use crying about whats past.

FOR INSTANCE, Davinci drew pictures of flying machines, but it wasn't until the invention of the internal combustion engine that they could be built. But after that, if the Wright bros didn't do it, someone else would have. SAME WITH the atomic bomb. As soon as the first computer was built, analog recording was doomed. There might be a few FREMMERS out there, holding on with their fingernails, but gramophones are gone, so are eight tracks, and soon, CD's.

And in a few decades , if anybody bothers to think about it, no one will understand what the fuss was about. Buying records during the fifties/seventies was a special thing, and I will never forget it. But, like experiences that other generations loved that are fading, its about over. BON jOVI IS BEING both greedy and childish. FOR a long time the industry sold discs that cost a few bucks to make for ten times the cost, sometimes.

This fueled an extravagant lifestyle. Recording artists, and their hangers on, lived like kings while teachers starved. Losing all of the hooker/drug money might be a main reason for Jovies rant. IN ANY EVENT, the day of recorded media is passing, JOB'S was just smart enough, with enough capital, to take advantage. Good for him.

BUT THE POINT is that if he didn't do it, somebody else would have. He didnt even speed up the process, you can blame that on CD's that were way overpriced for what they delivered.

This might be your best post yet...after I fix the hard Returns

Also thanks FA, Wooch, AA and TheHills for added comments.

[bobsticks]

So basically, Bon Jovi is responsible for his own demise.

Exactly. **** Bon Jovi.

Here's an idea Jon, why don't you make something that's relevent. [ISed fugit interea fugit irreparabile tempus, singula dum capti circumvectamur amore][/I], mother****er. You've got a lot of freetime...read some of the classics.

Whew...sorry crew...that rant just had to come out.

It gets tiresome, in these times of technological enlightenment, reading about how some inactive dullard pines for past days of glory and lays blame on anyone with both vision and willingness for application. I don't have any use for Steve Jobs but blaming him for seeing a need and filling it is idiotic. The market did what the market does...what it's supposed to do...recognized that many are aesthetically challenged and that most, particularly Americans, wish for nothing greater than what is cheapest and easiest...it's neither right nor wrong, good nor bad...it is nature and there are perceived rewards and always consequences.

Besides, the article Wooch referenced was correct...why hasn't the music industry cultivated anymore transcendent supergroups? Because it's not in their best interests given the current, outdated business model...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Besides, the article Wooch referenced was correct...why hasn't the music industry cultivated anymore transcendent supergroups? Because it's not in their best interests given the current, outdated business model...

Sticks, I don't think it is the business model that is the problem. Its who running the business. When music lovers ran the music business, the old business model would have worked fine in this new age. You would have albums of good music rather than a few songs being good on the album. Folks would still be buying albums instead of single songs off Itunes. Recording quality would still be important, and folks still would be sitting down listening to their tunes. The problem now is "bean counters" are running the business, and that is what has killed the music industry.

Bean counters don't believe in artist development, they believe in instant ROI to the shareholders. The shareholders are more important than the music itself - the artists are just vehicles to get dollars to shareholders. If a artist does not produce a hit the first go around, they are kicked to the curb, and we are on to the next flash in the pan. Back in the day, it would take an artist several albums before a hit was made, but that gave the artist time to develop into a long term investment for a record company. Your musical career had time to "ramp up" to success, not produce it instantly. It took the Temptations 15 years before they were producing hits, Britney Spears does not have that kind of time.

Bon Jovi didn't destroy himself, the record companies destroyed the music business. Until music lovers are back in power(if there is anything left to run), the music industry will continue to sink. Consolidation and corporate takeover of the music industry is the problem. When one corporation owns 1,000 stations, and the rights to manage most of the concert venues, you have a problem. When you have only 5 large music corporations running the show instead of the hundreds of small record companies that used to run the business, you have problems.

Bon Jovi has the right message, but he is directing it in the wrong place.

[bobsticks]

Sticks, I don't think it is the business model that is the problem. Its who running the business. When music lovers ran the music business, the old business model would have worked fine in this new age. You would have albums of good music rather than a few songs being good on the album. Folks would still be buying albums instead of single songs off Itunes. Recording quality would still be important, and folks still would be sitting down listening to their tunes. The problem now is "bean counters" are running the business, and that is what has killed the music industry.

I'll agree in theory but in practice that's not what happened. I'll concede that the industry places an undue amount of business pressure and time constraints on artistic endeavor but, that said, it's been a long time since I've heard an album that wasn't loaded with filler...especially from a major label act and especially on subsequent-to-debut endeavors.

Bean counters don't believe in artist development, they believe in instant ROI to the shareholders. The shareholders are more important than the music itself - the artists are just vehicles to get dollars to shareholders. If a artist does not produce a hit the first go around, they are kicked to the curb, and we are on to the next flash in the pan. Back in the day, it would take an artist several albums before a hit was made, but that gave the artist time to develop into a long term investment for a record company. Your musical career had time to "ramp up" to success, not produce it instantly. It took the Temptations 15 years before they were producing hits, Britney Spears does not have that kind of time.

I agree.

Bon Jovi didn't destroy himself, the record companies destroyed the music business. Until music lovers are back in power(if there is anything left to run), the music industry will continue to sink. Consolidation and corporate takeover of the music industry is the problem. When one corporation owns 1,000 stations, and the rights to manage most of the concert venues, you have a problem. When you have only 5 large music corporations running the show instead of the hundreds of small record companies that used to run the business, you have problems..

Here's were we disagree. Bon Jovi plays at least a coequal part in his own demise. Instead of evolving from an artistic and marketing standpoint he chose to stagnate. So they flattened their hair and tried to get deep...hot damn, so did dozens of other pop/rock/metal acts of that era.

Bon Jovi has the right message, but he is directing it in the wrong place.

Exactly my point. Blaming Steve Jobs for the entire demise of an industry doesn't take into account the unwillingness and inability to adapt to changing market demands.

Also it merits saying that it's not just a supply-side problem. It wasn't Steve Jobs' responsibility to remind the American public that fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life...

Good to see ya around...cheers...

---M

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'll agree in theory but in practice that's not what happened. I'll concede that the industry places an undue amount of business pressure and time constraints on artistic endeavor but, that said, it's been a long time since I've heard an album that wasn't loaded with filler...especially from a major label act and especially on subsequent-to-debut endeavors.

This is because the bean counters place more emphasis on the business side, and pay far less attention to the long term development of the artist - hence why artists today have a far shorter life span than older artists do. Coming from a audio engineering/musician/artist point of view, it takes time to create a long term career, and a long term investment for a record company. If record conglomerations would pay more attention to the development of artists, you would not have albums with two hits and nine fillers.

I agree.

Phew, I feared if we didn't, you would come at me with that Latin stuff.......

Here's were we disagree. Bon Jovi plays at least a coequal part in his own demise. Instead of evolving from an artistic and marketing standpoint he chose to stagnate. So they flattened their hair and tried to get deep...hot damn, so did dozens of other pop/rock/metal acts of that era.

Let me add this tidbit. He may not have had a choice in the matter, like many other groups didn't. Their manager(like many other mangers of groups during the period) may have leaned their marketing decisions from the record companies profit margins. 15% of $500,000 dollars is far less than 15% of $5,000,000 dollars, and a lot of mangers did not mind selling out their acts for a larger piece of the pie. The pressure to change your image based on a studio mandate is is far more powerful than artistic integrity. As an engineer, I have recorded many a great song only to be ruled by the record company as not mainstream enough. A record company has far more say on what you put on a record, than what you put on tape in the studio.

Exactly my point. Blaming Steve Jobs for the entire demise of an industry doesn't take into account the unwillingness and inability to adapt to changing market demands.

Agreed. But I would add that it would not be necessary to respond to a changing market demand if you put out a great "WHOLE" product instead of a piecemeal low quality based one. The public acted out of frustration to the current "state of the art" from the industry(lack of quality in whole albums, and the price of the product). If the music industry did what the movie studio's did(pass on the savings of duplication and licencing over to the consumer), they would not be where they are now. Poor inconsistent quality and high prices lead to MP3, and the demise of the older model of business. MP3 led to the downloading of individual songs, rather than whole albums.

Also it merits saying that it's not just a supply-side problem. It wasn't Steve Jobs' responsibility to remind the American public that fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life...

Good to see ya around...cheers...

---M

Thanks for the welcome. It seems on so many levels the American public is fat, drunk and stupid. At least we are consistent.......