Future of Circuitcity.

[Groundbeef]

So, with all of this pontification can we all agree that the true Sales Professional in this genre has become an endangered species, therefore making the his or her more appreciated in today's market?! Look, I've been in high ticket sales for a very long time, from selling Mercedes-Benz to securing business to business multi-million dollar contracts. Regardless of the level of the stakes, it's all the same....perception which then leads to expectation.
If it's a commodity item, our expectations and tends to fall off for the most part. The higher the risk, the higher the expectation. It's like when "Dad" who happens to own an S-Class goes into a Ford dealer with his daughter to shop for a Focus, his expectations are relative to the price of the transaction. He knows what type of service he possibly could be subjected to. His zero tolerance sensibility for unprofessional service could soften a little. If it's at a ridiculous level, then his wrath will most likely be felt all the way up to the ownership. But when he's at the Mercedes' dealer, oh boy, that's a whole different flow! As it should be. Venturing into that area of poor service at that type of establishment would never enter into the equation. Why? Higher expectation. He expects the best and will more times than not get it! I wasn't surprised with the type of demo I received from the BB/Magnolia rep. As a matter of fact, it could be deemed as better than expected. I knew he couldn't do what the Hifi House rep could do. But, when you are spending that type of dough, unfortunately, expectations are higher.
We live in a culture that believes in the bottom line. Your pocket vs. Corporate America's bottom line! Remember this, when you go to work and you do decent job, as a matter of fact, go beyond the call of duty, although it may not happen all the time, but you do welcome some acknowledgment, either thru verbal praise, documentation or pay(bonus/raise/promotion). If you don't receive what you feel is you just due, you feel unappreciated. Different folks, same strokes. Professional salespeople/not clerks, mind you, expect the same. Yes, Corporate America has without a doubt lost sight of that and so has the American consumer. Who's to blame?! Thanks for reading my 2 cents!

I like your posts, just put in a paragraph break or 2.

I think the difference is that some people expect a higher level of service than is really required for the value of the product.

In your case, as a salesman for high end products, good salesmanship is probably NOT in the minority simply because of the expectation of the client. For others, they have gotten confused that a $100 or even a $200 product is somehow in the same class as a $5000 purchase. Its not.

If I shop a local camera shop for a $200 digital camera, I might expect more knowledgeable salesstaff simply because of the location. However, would I expect to pay more for that camera than BB simply because its in a camera shop? No, I wouldn't, nor would I pay more.

But if I were looking for the latest in Digital SLR technology, I might be willing to pay a bit more for the expert help. Then again, the price is over $1000.

Good salespeople are around. If they are REALLY good, (as in your speaker example), you don't really even think of them as a salesperson, more as partner in the purchase.

[ldgibson76]

GB!

I knew there was a reason why I read your posts! Balance, comes to mind. Always thought provoking. And I'll try to keep my post under 50 words next time! (smile)

By the way, how's the equipment area in your HT setup coming?! And have you moved the front speakers in some?!

Regards.

[ldgibson76]

Being that this thread was based off the poor showing and bad form of the big box chain retailers, are there any members of this forum out there that are employed by BB or CC or any other like entity that wish to counter the claims of poor service or concur with the complaints from members that were nice enough to share their unfortunate experience?! I'm very interested to hear your side of the story and what you experience from the average consumer. I think that if we have the gumption to complain, then we should at least allow the platform for rebuttal. I'm sure we all have at one time or another taken liberties with salespeople, i.e,...soaked them for info and purchase somewhere else for justified or unjustified reasons.
And if you can, try to articulate with a little professionalism! Sarcasm and insults will only lessen the credibility of your rebuttal!

Regards.

[Mr Peabody]

I may not expect the extent of service on a lower ticket item as a more expensive one but I do expect a certain level from whatever I buy. I don't know jack about digital cameras and I'd pay $149.00 from a camera shop in order to get good advice on a purchase opposed to going to Wal-mart or BB and paying $129.00 for the same camera and making my best guess off the bullets posted on the price ticket.

This theory sometimes don't work out very well though. I wanted a lawn mower and got tired of buying a $99.00 WM special, so I went to one of those lawn and garden stores and bought me a $400.00 name brand, either Snapper or Lawn Boy, I had the guy explain all the features of the various mowers. But I've had that thing in for something minor almost every Spring. I guess that's more of a name brand vs. off brand thing though.

[filecat13]

I would agree with many of you points.

And, I would add a caveat to them. For every commisson sale, the knife cuts both ways. Certainly you cannot argue that there are not salesman who attempt to add every bell and whistle, every "extended" warrenty, and "just the right" widget to whatever purchase you make.

Lets be realistic here. In every business there is good help, and there is bad help. Any salesman that allows himself to be strung along for an extended time period needs to learn when to cut his losses. If you are consistantly finding your time being wasted by people that "waste" your time, perhaps you ought to practice the art of an "exit".

Nice, reasonable post. I don't agree with all your points in the last paragraph, but I do recognize there is a school of selling that would support it.

I've been in sales, and I respect the hard work that salespeople engage in everyday. However, I draw the line when the string instruments get pulled out, and people lament about what a rough time the poor sales person has when a customer "takes up their time". BooFreakin' Whooo

There are good salespeople, and there are some that are not so good. The above example from ldgibson showcased excellent service, and what every good salesperson should do to transform a "customer" to a "client". But then again, it was a sale for 5K for some A/V equipment.

If the same salesperson exerted that kind of effort for a $129 digital camera, I'd call him a fool. Same with filecat's example, and tear jerker story about the salesguy that gets taken advantage of.

Sales persons are just that. People. And if they don't have the sense to NOT be taken advantage of, thats not my problem. A good salesperson knows when to terminate a conversation with a "loser" customer. Either excuse yourself, or ask more pointed questions. If the customer is "wasting" your time, move on. What is the difference? You don't get the sale either way, so move on. I guess in a perfect world, every interaction between a salesman, and a customer would result in a sale with the maximum commission for the salesperson.

And what about the insurance agent that sells the 80 year old infirm an "20 year annuity". Great commission for them, not so much for the 80 year old. And yet it happens every day. So what if they offer "great service", and they land a huge commisson. Should we be proud of those folks, and hold them on some lofty pedastal for all to see? I think not.

Not nice, unreasonable post, taking extreme positions and irrelevant tacks.

Which one of these guys are you?

[blackraven]

The bottom line is that before the internet sales sky rocketed, BB and CC where the place to go for disounted run of the mill electronics and business was good and they had better sales people for the most part. If you wanted great service and high end audio you would go to your local Mom and Pop high end audio store. The internet age has hurt BB, CC and the Mom and Pop shops just like BB and CC took the low end audio market away from the Mom and Pop audio and video shops.

Now businesses are going out of business or cutting corners with sales people.

When I shop BB and CC now, I do my home work and know what I want to buy and dont need the opinion of a sales person. I just shake my head when I hear a sales person giving wrong or inaccurate information and advice to a customer who doesnt know any better.

[ldgibson76]

The bottom line is that before the internet sales sky rocketed, BB and CC where the place to go for disounted run of the mill electronics and business was good and they had better sales people for the most part. If you wanted great service and high end audio you would go to your local Mom and Pop high end audio store. The internet age has hurt BB, CC and the Mom and Pop shops just like BB and CC took the low end audio market away from the Mom and Pop audio and video shops.

Now businesses are going out of business or cutting corners with sales people.

When I shop BB and CC now, I do my home work and know what I want to buy and dont need the opinion of a sales person. I just shake my head when I hear a sales person giving wrong or inaccurate information and advice to a customer who doesnt know any better.

I concur!

[emaidel]

What most of us are talking about here is a matter of degree: how much service is worth paying a higher price, and how much higher a price are we willing to pay? Like another poster, I would readily pay $149 for a camera someone took the time to explain to me (assuming I knew nothing about the camera in the first place) than pay $129 for the same camera somewhere else without any assistance whatsoever. And, I would never take the salesperson's time at the first establishment to find out all I could about that camera, then leave and purchase it for less elsewhere.

Of course, no one is blameless in these scenarios. Retailers who don't police their return policies are simply asking to be abused. Just as an example, my wife has a very dear friend who seems to make it her life's goal to do little other than "buy, and return" just about everything. Recently, this woman had owned a Mr. Coffee coffeemaker, and had used it for a period of over 4 years. Then, the pot started to leak. My feelings, and I suspect, those of most of you reading this, would be that the pot served its lifetime (it only cost $35 to begin with), and it's now time to throw it out and buy a new one.

Not my wife's friend, though. She actually took it to Linens 'n Things, who'll take back just about anything, even if it's not in a box, or accompanied by a receipt. Not only did Linens 'n Things take back this 4 year-old coffee pot, but gave a refund of the highest price for which the pot ever sold, which was $69.95!

So, who was wrong? My wife's friend, or the retailer? In my estimation, both. Linens 'n Things was just plain stupid in refunding the money they did, and my wife's friend simply mercilessly abused their generous return policy (she didn't even purchase the pot there in the first place!).

Service is also often grossly overpriced in and of itself. I own a Mercedes, and do my very best to avoid the Mercedes dealer for servicing, since they charge outrageous amounts for just about anything. A "120,000-mile checkup," in which the only major work done was a transmission fluid, and oil change (everything else was just "check" this, and "Check" that) cost me a whopping $750!

I've been fortunate enough to find a local shop that specializes in Mercedes and BMW's, and does excellent work. They're still a good deal more expensive than any chain, though a lot cheaper than the Mercedes dealership. But they know their products. No, they don't offer me a loaner car, nor can I help myself to bagels, cream cheese and coffee in the morning, nor do they wash my car when they're done. Those are all nice touches, but oh my, are they ever expensive!

[Feanor]

What most of us are talking about here is a matter of degree: how much service is worth paying a higher price, and how much higher a price are we willing to pay? Like another poster, I would readily pay $149 for a camera someone took the time to explain to me (assuming I knew nothing about the camera in the first place) than pay $129 for the same camera somewhere else without any assistance whatsoever....

Increasingly today we rely on Internet and pulications to obtain product information. Today I rarely need product info from sales people. What's more, I never have trusted info from sales staff, (with a very few exceptions). They and their bosses are very self-serving.

The sort of service I do look for is selection, price, ease of ordering, shipping terms, and return policy. In that regard, though I hate, loath, and dispise the typical ignorance and rudness of BestBuy and Future Shop staff, they do have relatively good selection and return policies.

I don't frequent my local hi-fi dealer despite the fact that he has a great selection of products for our small-city market. Though knowledgable, he is an opinionated bass-turd whose opinions I neither agree with nor trust.

[ldgibson76]

Hello to all!

This thread has really hits home because I'm in Sales, and I work hard to maintain the level of professionalism my clients demand. Yes, as I said before, each situation is subjective, but, the ideal of customer service is at the mercy of one's interpretation of what customer service is or should be. Ask 100 people what proper customer service is and you'll get 100 different descriptions! It really comes down to what's at stake.

Because of my profession, I understand that I deal with a completely different market so it's unfair for me to use my sales experience as an example when it comes to commenting on the selling of commodity-type consumer electronics. So yesterday, I was compelled to visit the Best Buy where I auditioned the Vienna's. The Magnolia Rep who gave the demo, was present and he seemed pleased to see me again. I guess he thought I was coming to purchase the Mozart Pkg.
I say this because when I started our conversation with "Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate the speakers", his smile left because he then realized I was there to inform him that I chose the Paradigms. After I explained to him why, he seemed somewhat deflated, but that told me that to him, it wasn't about the commission, even though Mag. Reps are salaried, he honestly thought he had the better product and thought he convinced me of that very opinion. Guys, that's passion for what you do and believe in. Yes, it would have looked good selling a 5K speaker package, but I know how this guy felt.

Being that he had some time on his hands, I struck up a conversation about this very forum and the opinions and views that had been expressed about the box store Customer Service mentality. He acknowledged that the level of Cust Svc. has fallen, but he finds that most customers today are more educated and informed, because of the information that is now available. And please do not confused the Mag reps with the "blue shirts!" That's what you get when the $ becomes more important than how the $ is earned! There's a difference.(That's subjective) He told me that he used to work at the soon to be defunct Tweeter and he is amazed by how much the consumer today thinks he or she knows. Some are so misinformed, that they can't get out of their own way so they can have a pleasant buying experience.(I've experienced that before!) He claimed that at Tweeter, training was a little more intensive than at Best Buy/Magnolia. So his perspective on this topic may be little skewed. Why? The dude appears to be in his 30's. Maturity....So he seems to have an appreciation for the old school way of doing things. In other words, unlike a lot of his colleagues he understands the psychology behind customer and vendor interaction which makes for a more tolerable experience for the customer and the rep for that matter.

Overall, he agreed with most of what was said in this thread. (I had my laptop with me so the Geek Squad could increase my ram to 4 gigs, and I opened up AudioReview.com so he could read the threads). It was interesting to say the least.

I know this is only one Magnolia Rep, and he may be the anomaly. But, contrary to popular belief, there are still some good reps out there in the Big Box stores. You just have to be fortunate enough to run into one, better yet, once you do, be able to recognize that you have and not abuse or squander the opportunity to have a good experience where you thought none could be had!

Regards.

[filecat13]

bass-turd .

TURNERS FALLS, Massachusetts (AP) - Rescuers cut through a filtration tank filled with dense fish feces to reach four workers who fell into the sludgy dung Friday while cleaning the 18-foot tank at a western Massachusetts farm.

The workers became trapped for 45 minutes after a bracket holding a plastic filtration pad collapsed as they stood on it to clean the fiberglass tank at the Australis Aquaculture fish farm

One of the farmhands was submerged beneath what Dion described as a sand-and-feces mix, while the other three had their heads above the sludge, he said.

Goldman said the workers and the pad, which collects bacteria created by fish urine and feces, like some household aquarium filters, fell to the bottom of the tank.

"Everybody's present and accounted for," Goldman said. "A couple of the guys even came back to say hi."

Dion said rescue workers cut a hole in the side of the tank and then slashed through the feces mix until they were able to pull out the workers, Dion said.

"It was very slimy and it was heavy," he said. "Never seen anything like it in my life."

The worker who became submerged in the feces was airlifted to Bay State Medical Center in Springfield, but was talking with paramedics and did not appear to have life-threatening injuries, Dion said. The other three were taken by ambulance to a local hospital with minor injuries.

I hate it when that happens, either at a fish farm or in a hi-fi store.

[Groundbeef]

I hate it when that happens, either at a fish farm or in a hi-fi store.

Now thats just nasty. I have a small fish pond (900 gallon) and I have to clean the filter once a week (twice in the summer!) and it's just gross.

[emaidel]

I never have trusted info from sales staff, (with a very few exceptions). They and their bosses are very self-serving.

.

As one whose career was exclusively in sales, either on the retail floor, or from the manufacturer's position, I find such a statement highly offensive and insulting. True, there are plenty of dishonest salespeople out there, and the used-car salesman usually takes the prize for the least honest and most sleazy. As for the rest of us who made a conscious effort to know all we could about the products were were selling, and how they compared to that of the competition so we could provide our customers an informed buying decision, to so callously lump us in the same group as the used car slimebag isn't only demeaning, it's also just plain wrong.

Your comment was really uncalled for.

[Feanor]

As one whose career was exclusively in sales, either on the retail floor, or from the manufacturer's position, I find such a statement highly offensive and insulting. True, there are plenty of dishonest salespeople out there, and the used-car salesman usually takes the prize for the least honest and most sleazy. As for the rest of us who made a conscious effort to know all we could about the products were were selling, and how they compared to that of the competition so we could provide our customers an informed buying decision, to so callously lump us in the same group as the used car slimebag isn't only demeaning, it's also just plain wrong.

Your comment was really uncalled for.

As I said, emaidel, there have been a few exceptions, and I certainly wasn't directing my comments at you personally. But this is the nature of trust: one might say "a few bad apples ruin the barrel". Or the bad salesmen ruin it for the good salesmen.

I'm sorry that you took my remarks personally; as person of maturity, I hope you will accept that I didn't mean them that way. However I don't withdraw them as a general statement. Ultimately it's just part of the old principle, cui bono. In general people behave in accordance with the way they perceive their own self-interest -- sometimes all too short-sightedly.

[Feanor]

Hello to all!

This thread has really hits home because I'm in Sales, and I work hard to maintain the level of professionalism my clients demand.
...
But, contrary to popular belief, there are still some good reps out there in the Big Box stores. You just have to be fortunate enough to run into one, better yet, once you do, be able to recognize that you have and not abuse or squander the opportunity to have a good experience where you thought none could be had!

Regards.

Certainly not sales staff are bad, not even at BestBuy. There I find that at least one in four who is at least pleasant and/or somewhat knowledgable. Yes, I know that some customers are idiots all the time, and all customers are idiots some of the time, (me included), but that's the nature of the salesperson's challenge.

But as I said to emaidel, a few bad apples spoil the barrel. The my level of expectations of sales staff in big-box store especially has sunk very, very low.

[GMichael]

I went into a CC a few years ago to give an HK receiver a listen to. The Sales guy told me that I was too old to need any hi-fi equipment and that I should just get a Bose system. They haven't seen me since. BB is not a whole lot better though.

[filecat13]

I went into a CC a few years ago to give an HK receiver a listen to. The Sales guy told me that I was too old to need any hi-fi equipment and that I should just get a Bose system. They haven't seen me since. BB is not a whole lot better though.

My reaction in an instance like that:


You must be really old.

[GMichael]

My reaction in an instance like that:


You must be really old.

44 at the time. I was shocked at first. When he tried to show me the Bose system I laughed and walked away.

Oh yeah.. Bite me!

[emaidel]

I'm sorry that you took my remarks personally; as person of maturity, I hope you will accept that I didn't mean them that way.

I guess I'm a little too thin-skinned at times.

I probably should be less defensive, given the fact that throughout this industry's heydays (late 70's - mid 80's) a national poll was taken with American consumers asking them to rate salespeople from worst to best. The worst, to no one's surprise, was a used car salesman. I don't remember who was the best, but the second worst was an audio salesman in a stereo shop! And, as I watched in horror as I saw the manner in which so many of these folks sold the stuff I did, I couldn't help but agree.

[Groundbeef]

I went into a CC a few years ago to give an HK receiver a listen to. The Sales guy told me that I was too old to need any hi-fi equipment and that I should just get a Bose system. They haven't seen me since. BB is not a whole lot better though.

Hey, I guess you don't know quality even if it slaps you across the face. Whats wrong with his advice? Other than CC reps are commission, and Bose carries a hefty margin, hence bigger paycheck?

When did you become anti-worker? He has a family too feed, and a boat to pay for.

[Groundbeef]

My reaction in an instance like that:


You must be really old.

Hey, GM isn't all that old! I mean, at the Christmas Party, he only had to wear his oxygen tank for the last 2/3rds of the party. And he only used his "Little Rascal" scooter moving from the kitchen to his "home theater". I must confess the Bose 2.1 system was impressive..

[GMichael]

Hey, I guess you don't know quality even if it slaps you across the face. Whats wrong with his advice? Other than CC reps are commission, and Bose carries a hefty margin, hence bigger paycheck?

When did you become anti-worker? He has a family too feed, and a boat to pay for.

Are you trying to blame me for putting all those mustard workers out of business? Next thing you know, you'll blame me for global warming too.

[GMichael]

Hey, GM isn't all that old! I mean, at the Christmas Party, he only had to wear his oxygen tank for the last 2/3rds of the party. And he only used his "Little Rascal" scooter moving from the kitchen to his "home theater". I must confess the Bose 2.1 system was impressive..

That's it. I'm taking back my remote!

[Groundbeef]

Are you trying to blame me for putting all those mustard workers out of business? Next thing you know, you'll blame me for global warming too.

Judging from the amount of farts you blew out at the party, I'd say your doing your part.

[Smokey]

Whats wrong with his advice? Other than CC reps are commission, and Bose carries a hefty margin, hence bigger paycheck?

When did you become anti-worker? He has a family too feed, and a boat to pay for.

Sometimes salespersons are really not to blame as it might be store policy to push hi profit margin items. Bose, Monster cables and [especially] extended warranty fall into that category. Push those lines, or don’t get paid!