FINALLY - Revel Performa Series 3

[Mash]

Use a Pugh Matrix.

I use these for real estate, because houses can be so variable and impossible to compare, and one needs a tool that measures each house's CTQ's on a level playing field.

1. First you define your list of CTQ's (Critical to Quality). These define what is important to YOU.
2. Then you assign a weighting factor to each CTQ. Say 1,2,3,4 or 5.

Steps 1. & 2. will consume the majority of your time.......

3. Now you evaluate each unit by giving a score for each CTQ. I use 1, 3, 9
............ 1 = less than I expected; 3 = what I expected; and 9 = significantly better than what I expected.

When you look at each house you will focus only on YOUR list of CTQ's. Sometimes you have to rebuild your list of CTQ's to get your goal(s) correctly defined.

You wind up with "Score = Sum of {CTQ W.F.} times {score for CTQ.}

To wit:

1. 3 x 3 = 9
2. 1 x 4 = 4
3. 9 x 2 = 18
Score = 31

Some CTQ's for houses:

1. Traffic Pattern (how do people move through the house?)
2. Quality of Construction
3. Landscaping
4. Location - w/r/t Work
5. Location - w/r/t Schools
6. Location - w/r/t is it on a busy street/road?
7. Basement (Dry?)
8. Storage
............. and so forth.

At this point, comparisons become easy.

You can calculate

COST = "Price / Score", and "Price / Square Feet"

QUALITY of Sq. Ft. = "Score / Square feet"

[Mr Peabody]

The fact is the JBL Array 1400's were given a Class A rating. Notice I did state "FWIW" for what it's worth. There have been Class A gear on the list I wouldn't personally own nor understood the rating given.

Hi Fi is subjective to us all, there is a lot of expensive gear I wouldn't personally use in my listening room yet gets good reviews and some one must buy it because the companies are still in business. Also, adjectives used to describe gear usually mean different things to different people. Every one has their own meaning come to mind when hearing "emotion", "musical", "warm" etc. Some dismiss reviews all together some find them fun and some misled count them as gospel.

[Ajani]

The fact is the JBL Array 1400's were given a Class A rating. Notice I did state "FWIW" for what it's worth. There have been Class A gear on the list I wouldn't personally own nor understood the rating given.

Hi Fi is subjective to us all, there is a lot of expensive gear I wouldn't personally use in my listening room yet gets good reviews and some one must buy it because the companies are still in business. Also, adjectives used to describe gear usually mean different things to different people. Every one has their own meaning come to mind when hearing "emotion", "musical", "warm" etc. Some dismiss reviews all together some find them fun and some misled count them as gospel.

I think the mistake is to take reviews too seriously... I think people who either treat them as gospel or dismiss them completely miss the point of reviews. A review gives you an idea of products to audition. Products should not be purchased based solely on the basis of reviews (unless you are ordering from a internet only brand with a very good return policy - in which case it's really just an in-home-audition).

[RGA]

I think the main problem is that today everything gets a rave review. let's face it most stuff is at least decent - and some stuff is quite good but perhaps too expensive to be "merely" good.

Some stuff plays better with certain stuff and doesn't with certain other stuff.

You can go with measurements but looking at what reviewers actually buy after listening to hundreds of pieces of gear and arguably being more experienced than the average Joe - I don't see any correlation with what they end up choosing at the graph. I also don't see with "independent" blind level matched sessions as the stuff that gets chosen as sounding the best doesn't measure the best. And it needs to be independent - not run by a corporation.

The other is to go with reviews.

IMO there are two good ways to do this - one is to go with a reviewer who hears it the same as you. Chances are if you and him agree 90% of the time then there is a good chance you will like his next recommendation. This however doesn't mean you will - just means you have a better chance that you will.

Option two is the consensus approach. Do many reviewers like it from different countries at different totally independent magazines. Better if they bought them or go way over the top.

Saying "This speaker was wonderfully revealing and had solid bass and treble response was a pleasure to listen to and I highly recommend it to everyone" is still very much different from "this is the best hi-fi I have ever heard and everything else is noise." One is a very nice product at a given price point the other is world class.

To me it is important to recognize the difference in the language used because IME there is very very clearly a gradation in sound quality from one system to another system - hell there is that just WITHIN some company line-ups.

[manlystanley]

Option two is the consensus approach. Do many reviewers like it from different countries at different totally independent magazines. Better if they bought them or go way over the top.

This is the approach that I try to do. One of the sites that I used for equipment search is: EXCELIA HIFI - top 1000

Best regards,
Stan

[Ajani]

Option two is the consensus approach. Do many reviewers like it from different countries at different totally independent magazines. Better if they bought them or go way over the top.

Even though that's a decent strategy, it has major flaws as well. What if you're the odd man out? Most persons could love it and you still think nothing of it.

Take the Benchmark DAC1 as an example: easily one of the most raved about HiFi products, with a decade of rave reviews worldwide from both Pro Audio and HiFi Mags (a truly rare accomplishment). Also a load of reviewers own one. So does that mean everyone likes it? Hell no! There are lots of persons who claim it is cold, analytical, over-rated, etc...

[manlystanley]

Even though that's a decent strategy, it has major flaws as well. What if you're the odd man out? Most persons could love it and you still think nothing of it.

For someone of your defined taste, that makes perfect sense. However, for me sometimes I don't know what I like. For instance, I hear protracted arguments among various people about some nuance, and then I go and listen to the equipment being debated. Well, I hear the difference, but depending on what I had for lunch that day I can go either way on which one I really like the best.

My approach to buying equipment is to:

-- Find equipment that gets the most positive reviews.
-- Find equipment that is compared against much higher selling equipment.
-- Then buy them when there are really discounted (e.g. used or on deep discounts.).

Most times this strategy works (for me), but a few instances it really didn't work. But, my costs in general have been very low (comparatively)

I'd imagine as I get more rarefied listening skills I'll become like all of you guys, but until then ignorance is bliss (or should I say cheaper?)

Best Regards,
Stan

[Tarheel_]

Thanks for the reminder....my local Revel dealer didn't have any Performas a few months ago because he was waiting for the new line.

I cannot wait to get down there for some serious demo time!

side note: I thought the Concerta floorstanders sounded excellent and were a total bargain when I discovered the price. I guessed about $700 too high.

If you can find some Concertas on close out, get 'em and enjoy!

[Ajani]

Thanks for the reminder....my local Revel dealer didn't have any Performas a few months ago because he was waiting for the new line.

I cannot wait to get down there for some serious demo time!

side note: I thought the Concerta floorstanders sounded excellent and were a total bargain when I discovered the price. I guessed about $700 too high.

If you can find some Concertas on close out, get 'em and enjoy!

The Concerta F12 are something truly special. I suspect the one thing that kept them from really doing a lot better was the ho hum aesthetics... Just large and plain looking... The old Performa F30s are massive but have funky styling... I can't wait to see what the new Performa line looks like.

[RGA]

Even though that's a decent strategy, it has major flaws as well. What if you're the odd man out? Most persons could love it and you still think nothing of it.

Take the Benchmark DAC1 as an example: easily one of the most raved about HiFi products, with a decade of rave reviews worldwide from both Pro Audio and HiFi Mags (a truly rare accomplishment). Also a load of reviewers own one. So does that mean everyone likes it? Hell no! There are lots of persons who claim it is cold, analytical, over-rated, etc...

You are correct - not everyone can like everything although I think it depends how the unit is judged. I heard nothing cold or analytical or anything remotely bad about the Benchmark DAC I heard. So it may be an issue with the rest of their system.

Anything can sound bad in a system that isn't appropriate for it. Usually mix and match systems have more problems in this regard - people blame the wrong components.

[Ajani]

Here we go, the details on the Performa 3:

LAS VEGAS, Nevada – HARMAN’s Revel today announced the introduction of its Performa3 loudspeakers, a complete range of home theater and music loudspeakers that incorporates significant engineering enhancements to the original Performa Series to deliver extraordinary music and movie soundtrack reproduction. Complementing their audiophile-caliber performance, Revel Performa3 loudspeakers are stunning in appearance, with a choice of high-gloss real wood and automotive-grade painted finishes.
The 10 models in the Performa3 line include the following:

F308 3-way floorstanding tower (1-inch tweeter, 5.25-inch midrange, three 8-inch woofers; SRP: $6,000/pr)
F208 3-way floorstanding tower (1-inch tweeter, 5.25-inch midrange, dual 8-inch woofers; SRP: 4,500/pr)
F206 3-way floorstanding tower (1-inch tweeter, 5.25-inch midrange, dual 6.5-inch woofers; SRP: 3,000/pr)
M106 2-way bookshelf monitor (1-inch tweeter, 6.5-inch woofer; SRP: $1,700/pr)
M105 2-way bookshelf monitor (1-inch tweeter, 5.25-inch woofer; SRP: $1,200/pr)
C208 3-way center channel (1-inch tweeter, 4-inch midrange, dual 8-inch woofers; SRP: $1,700/ea)
C205 2-way center channel (1-inch tweeter, dual 5.25-inch woofers; SRP: $1,000/ea)
S206 2-way surround speaker (dual 1-inch tweeters, dual 6.5-inch woofers; SRP: 1,800/pr)
B112 powered subwoofer (12-inch woofer, built-in 1000-watt amplifier; SRP: $2,500/ea)
B110 powered subwoofer (10-inch woofer, built-in 500-watt amplifier; SRP: $1,700/ea)

“Our Revel Performa loudspeakers have earned rave reviews from audiophiles since their initial introduction,” said Jim Garrett, Senior Manager, Marketing for HARMAN Luxury Audio Group. “We have made a number of advancements in loudspeaker materials and manufacturing technologies that we are now able to incorporate into the upgraded Performa3 models. We are confident that listeners will be thrilled with the improvements in sonic performance and musical accuracy.”
To achieve their superior sound quality, Revel Performa3 loudspeakers deploy proprietary drivers throughout. The 1-inch pure-aluminum-dome tweeters deliver airy, extended high-frequency response to beyond 20kHz, with superlative detail and clarity. The tweeters operate into an exclusive Acoustic Lens Waveguide that is precisely shaped for optimum imaging and horizontal and vertical dispersion both on-and off axis.
The midrange and low-frequency drivers employ aluminum cones for extraordinary resolution and responsiveness, along with a seamless sonic blend with the tweeters. The cones have integral ribs that add strength and rigidity for clear, richly detailed sound with reduced distortion even at higher volumes. The drivers incorporate additional refinements including cast-aluminum frames and efficiently vented, high-power motor structures, to deliver smooth, natural vocal and instrumental reproduction.
Only the finest materials and internal components are used for Revel Performa3 loudspeakers, including air-core inductors and audiophile-grade polypropylene capacitors in the crossover network, and heavy-duty gold-plated binding posts. Depending on the model, a tweeter level control allows the speakers’ high-frequency balance to be fine-tuned, and a Boundary control enables the speakers to be tailored to individual room acoustics and placement positions.
The enclosures are built to the highest standards, with internal damping and bracing at critical locations and curved side panels that minimize cabinet-induced coloration. The larger models feature individual sub-enclosures for the midrange drivers for maximum midrange clarity and definition. Each Revel Performa3 loudspeaker is individually calibrated against a manufacturing reference standard to ensure absolutely consistent performance from every speaker that leaves the factory.
Revel Performa3 loudspeakers are as stunning in appearance as they are in performance with elegantly proportioned curved and contoured enclosures that are available in a choice of high-gloss real-wood and automotive-grade painted finishes.
Revel Performa3 loudspeakers will be available in Q2 2012 except the F308 and B110, which will be available in September 2012.

[Ajani]

[Mr Peabody]

I got to hear the $22k Salon Saturday. They were driven by the new Levinson 532H and 326 pre. The sound was outstanding, like being at a live show. I mean the sound pressure, transparency and immediacy really transcended me. Compared to other ultra high end gear I've heard this package I'm talking about is a value at the tune of around $40k. And we were using my T+A and the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC. I can only imagine what it would sound like with a higher end player. Frenchmon liked the PSA right off but I think I am too used to my player, after listening a while I finally had to admit overall the PSA was better than my player because it gave fuller more extended images. However, that was my second time hearing this DAC, the first time with it's PSA transport, I have to say only in my opinion I feel purely based on sound it's over priced. I think people are being charged for all the filtering and upsampling but there are much better CDP's for the same $6k it cost for the transport/DAC combo. I usually don't care much about looks of gear but I do like the Ultima series, something about that gloss black finish and the shape.

Boy the timing of my Performa purchase was off. Oh well, hind sight.

[Ajani]

I got to hear the $22k Salon Saturday. They were driven by the new Levinson 532H and 326 pre. The sound was outstanding, like being at a live show. I mean the sound pressure, transparency and immediacy really transcended me. Compared to other ultra high end gear I've heard this package I'm talking about is a value at the tune of around $40k. And we were using my T+A and the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC. I can only imagine what it would sound like with a higher end player. Frenchmon liked the PSA right off but I think I am too used to my player, after listening a while I finally had to admit overall the PSA was better than my player because it gave fuller more extended images. However, that was my second time hearing this DAC, the first time with it's PSA transport, I have to say only in my opinion I feel purely based on sound it's over priced. I think people are being charged for all the filtering and upsampling but there are much better CDP's for the same $6k it cost for the transport/DAC combo. I usually don't care much about looks of gear but I do like the Ultima series, something about that gloss black finish and the shape.

Boy the timing of my Performa purchase was off. Oh well, hind sight.

Off or not, you got a great pair of speakers and probably at a good price, so no need to sweat it... (Also the new Performa F308 with the 3 x 8" drivers might be too much bass for your room)...

[JohnMichael]

The M106 would look great in my room. Of course until the Krell is back from service everything else is on hold.

[Ajani]

The M106 would look great in my room. Of course until the Krell is back from service everything else is on hold.

I have my eye on either the F206 or the M106. I hope detailed specs and some proper photos are available soon.

[frenchmon]

Peabody....what gear is not over priced...yeah some more than others but over priced. Especially when it was confirmed to me the price you quoted me that he got the Salons at and the price consumers pay.

Ajani: Peabody and too much bass?!?!?!? There is never enough bass for Peabody! And I and not overstating that fact. LoL! That guy loves him some bass!

I too think Peabody got the better end with his F52's. From the looks of those drawings, the old Performa2 series looks better.

[Ajani]

Ajani: Peabody and too much bass?!?!?!? There is never enough bass for Peabody! And I and not overstating that fact. LoL! That guy loves him some bass!

You're right. What the hell was I thinking??? LOL

I too think Peabody got the better end with his F52's. From the looks of those drawings, the old Performa2 series looks better.

The F52 was the best looking of the old line (I really hated the look of the tweeter on the M22 and F32 models). Also, I can't tell how the new line will really look until some actual pics come out... Drawings can look really different from the finished product.

[frenchmon]

I have to say something about the Salon's we listened to last Saturday night and the Studio's before that. Both where being driven by Levinson, and we listened to both Revel's for over 3 hours each. Both are some of the best speakers in the world of audiophilia. But I dont believe the Salons are 6k better than the Studio's. Infact, I thought the Studio's had a blacker background and are less aggressive than the Salons.

Now I know the T+A CDP is agressive in nature, but the Salons remained more agressive than the Studio's when we switched over to the PS Audio DAC/ Sony transport outfit , though a tad tamer than with the T+A CDP . The Salons do every thing else about the same as the Studio's but only louder. And both speakers are just stunning to look at....and having said that, they both disappear once you start listening to the music......

..... Oh...and Patrica Barber??? Well you ain't heard Patrica Barber unless you heard her on a Revel system or another very high end speaker system. There is a reason why audiophiles or hobbyist seem to like her....her recordings are audiophile quality.

[Ajani]

I have to say something about the Salon's we listened to last Saturday night and the Studio's before that. Both where being driven by Levinson, and we listened to both Revel's for over 3 hours each. Both are some of the best speakers in the world of audiophilia. But I dont believe the Salons are 6k better than the Studio's. Infact, I thought the Studio's had a blacker background and are less aggressive than the Salons.

Now I know the T+A CDP is agressive in nature, but the Salons remained more agressive than the Studio's when we switched over to the PS Audio DAC/ Sony transport outfit , though a tad tamer than with the T+A CDP . The Salons do every thing else about the same as the Studio's but only louder. And both speakers are just stunning to look at....and having said that, they both disappear once you start listening to the music......

..... Oh...and Patrica Barber??? Well you ain't heard Patrica Barber unless you heard her on a Revel system or another very high end speaker system. There is a reason why audiophiles or hobbyist seem to like her....her recordings are audiophile quality.

I didn't expect there to be any difference in sound between the Studio2 and Salon2, other than that Salon2 is designed to play louder and lower in larger rooms...

[frenchmon]

Yeah...your expectations are spot on. Revel has turned Peabody into a believer. They must be doing the bass right, while at the same time satisfying his desire for a better upper midrange and treble presentation.

I've heard at great lenghts the Salon's2, Studio's2, F52's, M22's and the The F12's and the M12's. I am now wondering how the new Performa 3 series stacks up to the previous line, and if the change was for the better? I am wondering what different voicing they have done if any. Im sure Peabodys dealer will get some of the Performa 3 series into his display....I cant wait.

[Ajani]

I've heard at great lenghts the Salon's2, Studio's2, F52's, M22's and the The F12's and the M12's.

So which one are you going to buy?

[Ajani]

First real pic below and IMO MUCH better looking than the drawing:



Revel Shows Middle Speaker Line | Home Theater

[Ajani]

Another pic:

[frenchmon]

They look nice. If I was going to purchase in the next month or so, I would have to decide from Canton, Wharfedale Jade series, and Revel Performa 3.