FINALLY - Revel Performa Series 3

[Ajani]

Price increases and market position are different.

I bought a new Camry in 1991 for $12000 and a new Camry in 2007 for $23000. True, the 2007 is 3X the 1991 version.... but they are both Camrys.

Also people may not like "having to settle for less" so having one "model line" with different "trim lines" softens that blow. You cannot get the customer to buy if you make him/her feel bad about their purchase.

There were probably around 4 or 5 Camry models and a lot of inflation in between 91 and 07... The B&W example is literally from one year's model to the next... It was not about inflation... The new model uses a Diamond tweeter (far more expensive than anything used on the previous versions... So it is a change in market position, and not just price...

HiFi brands tend to move successful product lines up and then introduce cheaper lines below them to take over their old positions...

I'll have to see the new Revel line, but it may just be that Revel has gone for the latest trend of having a smaller monitor and tower in the line-up (the usual 5" driver in the smaller models versus 6.5" in the larger models)... So the replacements for the existing speakers may be around the same price as the old versions... while the 2 new models might sacrifice driver and cabinet size to meet lower price points...

[RGA]

Just a note - the B&W 805 has several different versions which explains some of their prices - they have been fairly stable over the years hovering around the $3k mark.

I am always a fan of a speaker that stays the same for a long period of time and doesn't change name badges or add MKII to the badge.

The price goes up and that means the owner loses less money.

The funny thing is that I can actually sell my OTO Phono SE and AN J speakers for more money than I paid for them a few years back. In the case of the J I probably make $1000 and the OTO I could make at least $500 on since the prices for the same models have risen over the years.

With my move to Hong Kong I will be forced into selling some things - The OTO can easily be changed over for the power here but the turntable will be a nightmare so I will probably have to sell it.

[Ajani]

Just a note - the B&W 805 has several different versions which explains some of their prices - they have been fairly stable over the years hovering around the $3k mark.

I am always a fan of a speaker that stays the same for a long period of time and doesn't change name badges or add MKII to the badge.

The price goes up and that means the owner loses less money.

The funny thing is that I can actually sell my OTO Phono SE and AN J speakers for more money than I paid for them a few years back. In the case of the J I probably make $1000 and the OTO I could make at least $500 on since the prices for the same models have risen over the years.

With my move to Hong Kong I will be forced into selling some things - The OTO can easily be changed over for the power here but the turntable will be a nightmare so I will probably have to sell it.

There is only one version of the 805 now... The 805 Diamond which is about double the price of the previous 805S...

[RGA]

There is only one version of the 805 now... The 805 Diamond which is about double the price of the previous 805S...

Well if they only changed the tweeter - it isn't worth it. There isn't enough bass and dynamics and weight and "believability" to the speakers to be worth $2k let alone the $5k. The Roksan speaker I am currently reviewing MUCH MUCH better than the prior 805 loudspeakers and goes for $1500. Much better integration of drivers - arguably one of the best Ribbon to cone integration I have heard - without that you really have nothing - and B&W's never integrate really at any price.

[Ajani]

Well if they only changed the tweeter - it isn't worth it. There isn't enough bass and dynamics and weight and "believability" to the speakers to be worth $2k let alone the $5k. The Roksan speaker I am currently reviewing MUCH MUCH better than the prior 805 loudspeakers and goes for $1500. Much better integration of drivers - arguably one of the best Ribbon to cone integration I have heard - without that you really have nothing - and B&W's never integrate really at any price.

I know the main change is the Diamond tweeter, but there are supposed to be others as well.. I doubt the bass response is much better than the previous version though... I also found the integration of the previous version truly lacking... and the bass seemed sad when compared to speakers like the Dynaudio Focus 140 (I heard in the same demo)...

The Roksan K2 line has received overwhelmingly positive reviews (especially in What HiFi), so I'd love to audition them one day...

[YBArcam]

Well if they only changed the tweeter - it isn't worth it. There isn't enough bass and dynamics and weight and "believability" to the speakers to be worth $2k let alone the $5k. The Roksan speaker I am currently reviewing MUCH MUCH better than the prior 805 loudspeakers and goes for $1500. Much better integration of drivers - arguably one of the best Ribbon to cone integration I have heard - without that you really have nothing - and B&W's never integrate really at any price.

Amount of bass I would think depends on the room and associated equipment. In a small room what is considered a bass-light speaker might be fine. I happen to think that bass is usually over emphasized anyways. Live music is kind of light sounding. Dynaudio is known for producing prodigious bass. I have heard a pair and it was way over the top, the bass overwhelmed everything else. I'm sure they can be made to sound better though, with the right room and system matching, toe in, etc.

Okay, you can't tell a lot from a You Tube video, but these sound very clear and dynamic:

B&W 705 New Update - YouTube

Always wanted to hear the 705, could be in person I wouldn't like them as much but then again who knows?

[RGA]

YBA Arcaam

Man I could almost hear the driver separation problems in the youtube clip - I swear those speakers bug the hell out of me with their "pingy" tweeters. Argh.

I agree Dynaudio has lots of bass - it overwhelms the midrange and the result is a boom and sizzle quality )though I don't find the treble too bad). I haven't heard a Dynaudio yet that I would buy. I generally preferred their lower end stuff as being competitive.

In a small room smaller speakers with less bass might be able to get by. Bass is less of a problem if everything else is spot on. But with B&W bass isn't the number one problem - it's the driver integration of their standmounts that does them in and their choice of driver materials and crossover points - you can read about them on Audioasylum (poster Layman) as to what the problems are. If those were fixed up I could live with the bass - I am not really a bass hound. I care about the midrange first and foremost.

[Mash]

Diamond tweeters? Diamonds are stones... very hard stones...

The goal for a dynamic tweeter is to use a very stiff and very light tweeter that responds quickly without ANY
cone or dome distortion.

So HOW does coating a dome or whatever with bits of stone make that dome both VERY stiff AND very light? The adhesive would be the limiting factror, not the bits of stone.

Or are they machining diamonds into cones or domes?

I understand how Magnepan gains a dynamic response advantage by changing from 1 mil Mylar to 0.5 mil Mylar for their diaphragms.

So please be specific.

[frenchmon]

Diamond tweeters? Diamonds are stones... very hard stones...

The goal for a dynamic tweeter is to use a very stiff and very light tweeter that responds quickly without ANY
cone or dome distortion.

So HOW does coating a dome or whatever with bits of stone make that dome both VERY stiff AND very light? The adhesive would be the limiting factror, not the bits of stone.

Or are they machining diamonds into cones or domes?

I understand how Magnepan gains a dynamic response advantage by changing from 1 mil Mylar to 0.5 mil Mylar for their diaphragms.

So please be specific.

I would like to know this technology as well....this is all I can find for now:


Why use diamond for tweeter domes? It may seem extravagant, but the move is simply an extension of Bowers & Wilkins’s pursuit of the perfect loudspeaker. One element of our quest for the best is the development of drive units that neither add nor subtract from the signal. In a tweeter, that means creating a dome that remains rigid, exhibiting perfectly piston-like behaviour, as far up the frequency scale as possible. Best for this are materials with a high stiffness to density ratio - which is where diamond comes in.
Find out more Bowers & Wilkins - Diamond Tweeters

[Jack in Wilmington]

I find it interesting that B&W raised their prices that much when they switched to the diamond tweeter, but the Usher BE718 only went from $2795 to $2999 when they made the switch. This was also the reason my local HiFi shop dropped B&W. Nobody was buying the diamond tweeter price increase and they were either buying Paradigm Studio series or Sonus Faber.