Early Data Shows Strong Black Friday

[Mr Peabody]

I have not heard anything about credit cards being cancelled. I still get offers in the mail for them. They are also trying to get people to sign up for department store credit cards as you walk through.

I was out yesterday doing a bit of shopping and it was interesting. First the crowds were not there. I was looking for clothes for my girls. We went to a couple stores and could not find what we were looking for. It did seem the stores were holding back on restocking. We ended up at a mall. Granted this malls traffic has been going down but it was dead. Sears looked like they had some stuff on sale but I think it was one of those deals were they mark it up to mark it down because the prices weren't that great. Macy's I think isn't aware of a recession, after I saw a couple price tags I ran out of there. The Kids Gap had some stuff discounted but a sweater was $45.00, for a little girl? Kids grow, maybe for my wife. Anyway I was about to give up when we wondered into a shop that sold kids clothes. I felt sorry for them and felt like I should have bought more. Their stuff was discounted from the discounts. I bought a couple nice sweaters there and only spent a total of $25.00.

[Worf101]

There are some intractable "nuts" in this economic meltdown that I see no answer for and perhaps some of you folks can help me see my way thru them.

1. I don't consider myself a rampant consumer. I just upgraded my HT system for the first time in 8 years. My computer's almost 5 years old. I have NO joneses to keep up with... I wish America and the world could "get off" the consumer gerbil treadmill. But the flip of this is that our world economy is based on consumerism remaining at post WWII levels. Consumer less or resonably and the engine sputters and halts... mass unemployment... what's the answer.

2. Corporations with more power than nations. Do as we say or you people starve from lack of work. I see this first hand as millions and millions of taxpayer dollars are given to private companies to induce them to locate or relocate in my State. Sometimes some smart individual does the math and in one case the state was paying about 1 million in tax breaks or outrught investment for each permanent job created. This model is unsustainable.

3. Unrealistic levels of growth. The Chinese are begining to see that everything must cool, but new workers need jobs, no growth, no new jobs, no jobs.... unrest.

Wow, I'm depressed.

Da Worfster

[Feanor]

There are some intractable "nuts" in this economic meltdown that I see no answer for and perhaps some of you folks can help me see my way thru them.

1. I don't consider myself a rampant consumer. I just upgraded my HT system for the first time in 8 years. My computer's almost 5 years old. I have NO joneses to keep up with... I wish America and the world could "get off" the consumer gerbil treadmill. But the flip of this is that our world economy is based on consumerism remaining at post WWII levels. Consumer less or resonably and the engine sputters and halts... mass unemployment... what's the answer.

2. Corporations with more power than nations. Do as we say or you people starve from lack of work. I see this first hand as millions and millions of taxpayer dollars are given to private companies to induce them to locate or relocate in my State. Sometimes some smart individual does the math and in one case the state was paying about 1 million in tax breaks or outrught investment for each permanent job created. This model is unsustainable.

3. Unrealistic levels of growth. The Chinese are begining to see that everything must cool, but new workers need jobs, no growth, no new jobs, no jobs.... unrest.

Wow, I'm depressed.

Da Worfster

Lurking behind all of this is if FACT that if we continue to rely on continuous expansion of consumer demand on the world-wide scale, we'll destroy the planet. (And then have nowhere to live.)

Read Jared Diamond's book, Collapse, and see what happens when societies -- with particular blame on the wealthy and ruling classes -- over exploit their environments or fail to respond to climate change.

[pixelthis]

Lurking behind all of this is if FACT that if we continue to rely on continuous expansion of consumer demand on the world-wide scale, we'll destroy the planet. (And then have nowhere to live.)

Read Jared Diamond's book, Collapse, and see what happens when societies -- with particular blame on the wealthy and ruling classes -- over exploit their environments or fail to respond to climate change.

MORE "GREEN" BS.
You are confusing village econ with global econ.
There is an unlimited universe of resources out there, enough on this planet alone to last centuries.

[Feanor]

MORE "GREEN" BS.
You are confusing village econ with global econ.
There is an unlimited universe of resources out there, enough on this planet alone to last centuries.

WRONG AGAIN ...

[pixelthis]

WRONG AGAIN ...

They have enough oil off of the shore of Brazil to last fifteen years, and that is only the first of many deep drill wells that are ongoing.
Oil shale is plentifull, as is oil sands.
We dont live in a economy that uses oil, we live in a carbon based economy,
one that uses carbon for everything, practically.
But we have coal alone enough to last for centuries.
AND why do you think everybody , including INDIA, has plans for going to the moon?
Because there is enough helium3 on the surface to last millions of years.
One shuttle bay full of helium3 will supply the USA'S energy needs for a year.
With your attitude we never would have left the caves, because it would have cost too much.
JUST BECAUSE YOUR "GREEN" ASS IS TOO LAZY TO GET OFF OF THE COUCH
DOESNT MEAN OTHERS ARENT.
You are the one that is "wrong", along with Malthus and other naysayers who would limit human growth for their own agenda.