Denon don't make their own DVD players?

[Mr Peabody]

I was reading an article that was predicting Denon to have a Blu-ray player out this year. But I was a bit surprised to find that Funai, the same company that builds cheap DVD players like Emerson, Sylvania etc., also makes Denon's. The surprise really wasn't that Denon didn't build their own but more that Funai was capable of building the quality found in the Denon players. I'm not sure how long this has been going on but my Denon 1600 has worked flawlessly for several years and I've been happy with the picture. This unit listed at $499.00, I'd hate to think a $59.00 Wal-Mart special would have done the same thing. I'd also think that D&M Holdings had the capacity to build their own players. I assume it's cheaper for them to have some one else do it. I also suspect the Funai or others who produce for several other companies have to build to the requested specs of each manufacturer.

[elapsed]

That's correct, Funai manufacturers all of the low-end Denon DVD Players. However, Denon does indeed manufacture the DVD-2930, DVD-3930 and DVD-5910.

That being said, D&M Holdings have belonged to the HD DVD Consortium since it was first formed, so I've long suspected that Denon will release an HD DVD Player before a Blu-Ray Player. I couldn't imagine Denon releasing their first HD Player as an outsourced Funai model in any case. It is more likely that Denon is waiting to release a high-end player featuring Silicon Optix HQV, they are just waiting for the war to settle or will eventually release a combo player.

[Mr Peabody]

Well the poster on Bluray.com said Denon was a BD+ adopter. I read the interview with Jeff Talmadge on www.listenup.com, and although he had some very interesting things to say about the new Denon HT gear, the only thing he really said about HD discs is that Denon plans to announce possibly in July the release of a HD player for which the format was not given. What is interesting is that he said at least twice that with what the Denon standard DVD does for DVD there is very little difference between the picture of Denon SD and a HD disc player. He was boasting that at CES they had, I think the 5910 up against a HD player and according to Talmadge, 8 out of 10 people couldn't pick out the HD picture. It doesn't sound like Denon is ready to give a big push either way with comments like this.

Denon fans may want to give the interview a read, their coming out with a preamp and 10 channel power amp, as well as some high tech interfacing on their receivers.

[Woochifer]

Just so you know, Funai is a member of the Blu-ray group (for now at least, they're the only off-brand manufacturer on board with Blu-ray) and they are due to release a Blu-ray player under one of their brands sometime this summer. It was rumored to come in around the $500 (?) price point, but since Sony has already reached that price point, we'll see how far the introductory price drops.

I know that at one point, Denon also contracted with Panasonic to build their DVD players (my DVD-1000 is one of the Panny-built units). In these cases, Denon custom specs the players and internal components, and outsources the manufacturing (I recall though that on benchmark tests some of Panasonic's own players outperformed the Denon players that they were building). Yamaha has also gone with Panasonic to build their DVD players.

On their higher end units, Denon builds the transports and does the final assembly in-house. However, even with their higher price tags some of these units have been among Denon's most problematic models.

A lot of "high end" manufacturers indeed procure major components from outside sources. For example, Arcam and McIntosh CD players use Sony transports, and nearly all of the DVD transports come from only a handful of manufacturers (Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Pioneer, Toshiba, and and a few other OEM suppliers).

[pixelthis]

Its all marketing really, most players come outta china, my samsung came from there,
Only the very high end make their own stuff and outsource those parts
"Badge" engineering is a practice that has been in use for quite awhile, and following the industry is almost as much fun as using the products.
Every once in awhile you get a faroujia chip or a specialized souond field but mostly
the player you buy was made by someone else
I notice you have vintage gear Mr p, well nobody except maybe macintosh(chorus goes AHHHHHHH in backround ) builds em like that anymore, just another sign of a degenerate civilization.
I love my klipsch speakers but was shocked to discover they were made in China!
The box says "engineered in america" but built in China.
Speakers yet! We are truly doomed

[Rich-n-Texas]

Its all marketing really, most players come outta china, my samsung came from there,
Only the very high end make their own stuff and outsource those parts
"Badge" engineering is a practice that has been in use for quite awhile, and following the industry is almost as much fun as using the products.
Every once in awhile you get a faroujia chip or a specialized souond field but mostly
the player you buy was made by someone else
I notice you have vintage gear Mr p, well nobody except maybe macintosh(chorus goes AHHHHHHH in backround ) builds em like that anymore, just another sign of a degenerate civilization.
I love my klipsch speakers but was shocked to discover they were made in China!
The box says "engineered in america" but built in China.
Speakers yet! We are truly doomed

FINALLY something we can agree on!

[Mr Peabody]

I did not realize Klipsch was built in China. I'm beginning to wonder what isn't but I will show some restraint as to not go off on a rant.

Not that I mind, but to be fair to my brands, I don't think anything I have is "vintage". I thought vintage referred to older gear. Audio Note still makes tube DAC's, I believe both of my CJ pieces are still current models. Just for anyone who may not realize you can buy brand new tube gear with modern technology and parts.

[musicman1999]

Mr peabody

An unrelated question for you,how do you like your Primare?I really wanted to hear one,while i was shopping for a pre-pro but there was no dealer anywhere near me.I ended up with ar Anthem and like it a lot but just curious.

bill

[Mr Peabody]

I like the Primare 31.7 pretty well. I really only use it for HT. I have listened to some CD's using the preamp's decoder and it's a good sound just not as good to me as my dedicated 2 channel. I've heard the Anthem AVM-20. I won't compare as it was totally different systems, except to say I thought the Anthem system sounded good. The AVM-20 was into it's matching amp and driving Paradigm studios. The Anthem had more features than my 31.7. I probably would have an Anthem as well now if I hadn't run across the deal I did on the Primare. I'm irritated with Primare right now, I've been emailing and leaving messages with a question and can't get a reply. The 31.7 has been reliable and it's built like a tank but it's list was around $4k US which I feel is a hefty price for it.

[pixelthis]

FINALLY something we can agree on!

rich ON PAPER agrees with me!!!
Where can I score some crack?

[pixelthis]

AND dont get me started on tubes
So called audiophiles worship at the base of the almighty tube, but didnt always be thata way. Audiophiles always looked for the best most advanced tech to play their tunes
But a great shock occured with the advent of the CD, all of a sudden you could get a
player at wallfart that sounded pretty good for around 30 bucks
OSO most audio enthusiasts went psychotic, and a marketing genius came out with a tube amp. He figured (rightly) that if an audiophile could reason away the deficencies of a turntable, claiming its superiority over a CD than tubes were a cinch!
So stuff started showing up that looked like it came out of a 1939 sears and robuck catalog
Tubes have a heater circuit that drives the emitters, this is like having a space heater in your gear. That fabulous "tube sound" is what some call harmonic distortion.
I once read a review of a single end triode "monoblock" amp, put out a sterling FIVE Watts
with a harmonic distortion of around 5%, a real bargain at FIVE GRAND (a stereo pair was
ten grand) The reviewer rapsodized abouot how great his turntable sounded on it.
GEEZE
You want a single end triode amp I will build you one for only two grand, even put three stages so it will drive more than a clock radio speaker, save ya some money

[musicman1999]

I like the Primare 31.7 pretty well. I really only use it for HT. I have listened to some CD's using the preamp's decoder and it's a good sound just not as good to me as my dedicated 2 channel. I've heard the Anthem AVM-20. I won't compare as it was totally different systems, except to say I thought the Anthem system sounded good. The AVM-20 was into it's matching amp and driving Paradigm studios. The Anthem had more features than my 31.7. I probably would have an Anthem as well now if I hadn't run across the deal I did on the Primare. I'm irritated with Primare right now, I've been emailing and leaving messages with a question and can't get a reply. The 31.7 has been reliable and it's built like a tank but it's list was around $4k US which I feel is a hefty price for it.

Thanks for the info,i did get a great deal on an avm-30 and have been very happy.Sorry you are having a problem with support,that should be a given at that price range.

bill

[Mr Peabody]

Pixel, you are a little off base, tubes never went anywhere. When solid state hit most manufacturers did jump ship but manufacturers like McIntosh, Audio Research and Conrad Johnson stayed with their passion. There have been a few modern changes and the advent of newer improved parts that gave tube gear some improved performance over tube gear of yester year. Of course, that may be subjective as well. I can't say why now tubes have made a come back, as vinyl did. Fads happen, and they come & go.

You should know by now not to believe in specs. The type of distortion that is claimed to give tubes their warmth or presence is not "harmonic". I can't remember which it is. But the clarity of my tube gear is vastly better, or, at least as good, as any SS gear in it's price or lower claiming .000001% harmonic distortion.

I always felt the goal of an audiophile was to find the best or most enjoyable reproduction of their music collection no matter the technology. Most audiophiles shunned the CD player when it first came out. I believe those who claim to be audiophiles are probably slower to adopt new technology rather than chase it. Case in point, a high end piece may have the same model number and look for years, where those of you who shop mass merchants would die if you didn't have a flashing new model to drool over each year.

And, all of this is generalizations since most of us dance to different drummers.

[Mr Peabody]

Wooch, you are correct, as if I ever doubted you, I was reading an article and it just happened to mention that Panasonic makes my very own Denon 1600.

[pixelthis]

Pixel, you are a little off base, tubes never went anywhere. When solid state hit most manufacturers did jump ship but manufacturers like McIntosh, Audio Research and Conrad Johnson stayed with their passion. There have been a few modern changes and the advent of newer improved parts that gave tube gear some improved performance over tube gear of yester year. Of course, that may be subjective as well. I can't say why now tubes have made a come back, as vinyl did. Fads happen, and they come & go.

You should know by now not to believe in specs. The type of distortion that is claimed to give tubes their warmth or presence is not "harmonic". I can't remember which it is. But the clarity of my tube gear is vastly better, or, at least as good, as any SS gear in it's price or lower claiming .000001% harmonic distortion.

I always felt the goal of an audiophile was to find the best or most enjoyable reproduction of their music collection no matter the technology. Most audiophiles shunned the CD player when it first came out. I believe those who claim to be audiophiles are probably slower to adopt new technology rather than chase it. Case in point, a high end piece may have the same model number and look for years, where those of you who shop mass merchants would die if you didn't have a flashing new model to drool over each year.

And, all of this is generalizations since most of us dance to different drummers.

Specs arent what I go by. And tubes have hardly made a "comeback", they are a tiny niche in an already tiny group of peeps who stilll care about audio.
From reading your posts I really respect you Mr p but will always think tubes are a big step back.
Its like what happened to art. It took centuries to develop painting, even perspective is relatively recent, and when the camera came out it all went down (pardon) The tube,
and now so called "art" is just a splash of paint on a canvas meant to convey "feelings"
I think the same thing happened to audio, where do audio purists go when inexpensive
gear rivals their own?
And how do high end manufacturers justify their stuff?