Is BR as a audio format already dead?

[Mr Peabody]

One thing I learned on the playground is not to step in the middle of two combatants in hopes of breaking up a fight, you will undoubtedly come out of the midst with a couple lumps of your own.

[ldgibson76]

One thing I learned on the playground is not to step in the middle of two combatants in hopes of breaking up a fight, you will undoubtedly come out of the midst with a couple lumps of your own.

True, Peabody. I could be putting myself in harms way. But, you needn't be concerned about that..... I can handle it. But, do you think the name calling is prudent or even necessary? I understand the wise crack here and there, but sometimes it goes a little too far. That's all I'm trying to say!

[bobsticks]

I wish a high res standard would emerge soon. If it is blu-ray ,then so be it. I just know that an SACD done right is the closest I have ever heard a digital source come to having true analogue qualities ( the Dark Side of the Moon SACD comes to mind) multi-channel doesn't really interest me to much at all, I just want true hi resolution stereo. With that being said I have no clue about Blu-Ray's future, I just hope it is not dead because that seems to me to be the best future we have for true high res digital.

Well said.

[Chas Underhay]

Ah! Here's the rub -- one huge reason why MP3s have spread so quickly is the ease by which a CD can be turned into a digital music file. Loading up an iPod with your favorite CDs is ridiculously easy --

1) Load the CD into your computer
2) After the song list and album artwork automatically pop up on iTunes, click the "IMPORT CD" button
3) Wait 5 minutes while the computer creates MP3 (or AAC or whatever audio format you want to use) files of every song and embeds the data tags (w/ song, album, artist info)
4) Copy the CD's song list onto your iPod playlist
5) Plug the iPod into your computer
6) Wait about 30 seconds for the iPod to sync with the playlist and download the files
7) Unplug the iPod and go

With vinyl, it's a considerably slower process because like all analog formats, any format conversion has to be done in real time. Converting an LP into a digital file is no more cumbersome than the old days of cassette recording, but it's still far less convenient than a CD, which can be converted into MP3 files in about 5 minutes.

In order to create MP3 from an LP, you'll need to first record the audio, whether onto a CD recorder or plugged directly into a computer sound card. Then, when the files are created, you'll need to individually type in the data tags/labels for each track, since that's the only way that a MP3 player can organize the music by song title, artist, and/or album.

With iTunes (and most other digital jukebox programs), the data tag information is automatically called up from Gracenote when the CD is inserted. While the CD is getting converted into MP3, the song titles and other info are automatically written into the music files. That's a level of speed and convenience that you can't match when recording from an analog source.

Audio Technica though recently started selling a USB turntable, which plugs directly into a computer specifically for creating digital files.

Thanks for this information Woochifer!

My record player is of reasonable quality (Ortofon Kontrapunct B etc) and recording onto CD is easy enough and I know that I can index between tracks. Do you think that route would be better than connecting the output from my phono stage to my computer? I don't think the sound card in my computer is anything special. If so, is there any disadvantage in using CDRWs so that I can re-use them?

Cheers

Chas

[Groundbeef]

Thanks for this information Woochifer!

My record player is of reasonable quality (Ortofon Kontrapunct B etc) and recording onto CD is easy enough and I know that I can index between tracks. Do you think that route would be better than connecting the output from my phono stage to my computer? I don't think the sound card in my computer is anything special. If so, is there any disadvantage in using CDRWs so that I can re-use them?

Cheers

Chas

I'm no botnist, but I have this little voice in the back of my head saying "don't plug your Phono right into your computer". I think that there has to be some sort of intermediary or there will be sound issues.

Anyone with more knowledge out there that can substanciate that thought?

[filecat13]

Here's what I used. It's simple, effective, and has what you need to get the job done. You can plug your turntable right into the unit, or you can run it through your preamp. It works on Macs and on Windows XP.

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic

The Final Vinyl software is idiot-proof and allows EQ and other controls if you're so inclined.

[Mr Peabody]

Does it only have the mini jack? Do you use a RCA to mini adaptor?

[Chas Underhay]

Thanks for that information gents and thanks for that link Filecat; that gives me some good food for thought.

I can easily knock up a phono to mini jack lead and that would probably have quite a few other uses these days.

Cheers and all the best

Chas

[nightflier]

You were wrong on every one of your assertions. Nothing turned out like you said.

That why they were assertions. Unlike you, I didn't say that things would definitely turn out one way or the other, I only presented alternative outcomes to your definite statements. Would you have had the decency to admit that you were wrong, had my assertions come true? Judging from your dogged absolutism, I doubt it.

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...keep up will ya...don't get ahead of yourself.
ooooooooo, still have that nasty temper. Enhance your calm and stop blowing all of this heat....Pretty open ended statement. ...Get it through your thick head...What the hell are you talking about? ...Come on uneducated one, you surely can do betta than this. ...You need to stay far away from this subject....Look in the mirror and say this a thousand times...You have to stop looking at things a frame at a time. Your thinking is too small, your time structure a little off...All the rest of the bull is just what it is, bull. You do not know how folks...and you do not know what...You seem to be forgetting...your rush to come to some negative judgement.

I guess you just can't stop insulting and denegrating, can you? These are all from your last post. Can't you just say something useful without being such a pill? Did I insult you in my initial post? Did I even mention you? No. I don't care about you, but I do care about the topic. Stop being such a weenie, a little tiny tweezer one, at that.

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There is more than just a couple of disc out there(keep up will ya). How bluray is being marketed is kind of open. Sure movies and games are the biggest draw, but the new music releases are proving that music only application are just another way of using a bluray disc. The spec was always there.

I'm sorry, I'll rephrase: "all half-a-dozen of them...". Big woop, that's not significant, and certainly not something that is a marketable medium. For all practical purposes, videois the only draw to BR.

It is not likely in the near future you will see a pioneer bluray player for the mass market. They have taken the high end with their players. Denon has also taken the high end with their players, and there is Goldmund who is also taking the high end with their bluray players(all of $20k). So their will be many price points to choose from, not just the mass market. ...I think Pioneer has come far from this outdated perspective. Denon has two players on the market. And Goldumund, they do not have to sell more than four players a years. The margins they make on that player eleviates the need to sell any more than that.

Pioneer used to make $50 DVD players loaded with features. While they have changed of late, their track record in the last decade hardly reassures. My guess is that they'll eventually release a $50 BR player and charge $100 for it, just because it says Pioneer on the bezel. Denon is way too smart to stay just high-end. They already have a $900-ish player and they would be the loosers if they didn't develop a $700 and $400 player as well. By the way, how are those $2K BR players selling for them? They need to sell a whole lot more than Goldmund to make that ship float. Speaking of Goldmund, what does that $20K player offer that the $2K Denon doesn't? Braggin rights? High-end DVD players are like SUV sales - bloated prices and bloated boxes for tiny weenie-complexes. Are you going to be buying one of these, lil't?

Things change. What is not compelling today, could be tomorrow. Time brings about changes, it is not stagnant. Besides, there is content out there, enough to sample what the format can produce.

Well, it's not compelling today, and we really don't know what will happen in the future. Funny, for someone who's always harping about constraining the discussion to just what we know, you sure are eager to speculate on the uncertain future. Fact is, audio-only BR isn't here in any meaningful way - a few disks don't make it so - it could just as easily flounder.

Pretty open ended statement. Plenty of well mastered concert video as well. Most of what has been released on bluray has been pretty well mastered. It has to be when you are trying to demo something in the market.

Open ended? I would say that "Times change" is about as open ended as you can be - a real risk taker, now aren't we? Plenty of badly mastered content is out there too, not to mention all the fluf that has only been repackaged as BR with very little remastering. But let's call this one a draw and move on.

They are selling between $15-20. As volume increases, the price will drop as well. Get it through your thick head, the some disc WILL NOT HAVE VIDEO, can you read that? So there is no need for a monitor once the music is started.

$15-20? What disks are you looking at? And let's remember that the price will only drop if the product takes off, and we haven't seen that happen yet. Right now, with the economy where it is, I'm going to guess the price will actually increase. Care to make an absolute statement that the price will drop, too? And there's no need to YELL and get your panties in a bunch, either. You know full well that the system you're talking about the typical consumer playing this disk on is their HT with TV system. The system I'm talking about does not have a TV - it's an audio-only system, just like the systems that music enthusiasts have their SACD players in today. If that system requires setup menus and other video queues to get the disk started, then that consumer will forgo the medium altogether. I don't know too many people who are willing to add a TV to their audio-only system just to play a disk.

What the hell are you talking about? Haven't you ever heard of restoration, remastering, or reauthoring? ...You need to stay far away from this subject. If they are going to repurpose or restore a mono soundtrack, they just go back to the original elements and re-stitch them together in a 5.1 soundfield. Chace technologies does this, and so does Mi Casa Studios. Even adding color to a black and white movie can easily be done these days. Look at the Bluray 20 million miles to Earth as a prime example of that.

Well if you think that Cassablanca or The Birds look better in technicolor and matrixed DTS-MA audio, more power to you. You can buy that BR disk, if you want, I just don't see that being the big seller you think it will be. Likewise with concert video - Led Zep & the Doors in simmulated surround sound? That will be a tough pill to swallow, too.

It may not be marketed today, but tomorrow is a different story. You have to stop looking at things a frame at a time. Your thinking is too small, your time structure a little off, the same problem you had with the last debate we had. All the rest of the bull is just what it is, bull.

Funny, how you claim to know the future again. Please lil't, do enlighten us more about the future. And here I thought others could weigh in with their point of view here. I thought this was a free and open forum. I guess you can tell us all what it is that we need to know about the world at large. Geeeez.

You do not know how folks are going to take to bluray music, and you do not know what the listening habit of folks will be.

Oh, I'm sorry, you must be the only one who knows what "the listening habit of folks will be". Why don't you educate us, oh anointed one?

There is alot of interest in surround music by audiophiles that just happen to like video as well. You seem to be forgetting these folks in your rush to come to some negative judgement.

Not at all forgetting them, I'm talking about them. But I'll also suggest that many of them have separate systems for audio and video. And let's re-iterate this for everyone: "interest" does not equal sales. Right now, that interest is just a curiosity. It is not a visible and measurable paradigm shift (I know how you're a stickler for numbers).

I almost get the feeling that you hope your insistence on it's viability will magically make it come true. Or maybe you hope that your posts here will have an impact on this industry. You sure think highly of yourself; you must be over-compensating for something....

[Mr Peabody]

If Goldmund makes enough money on 4 players to stay in business for a year it makes the purchaser look pretty foolish and they must not be getting much for their money.

I wouldn't put Denon too high on a pedestal their 3800 has issues with the 24 fps and they all have to go back for a fix. Seems 24 fps isn't actually 24 fps,it's more like 23.96 and apparently that fraction of a difference is visible.