Blu-Ray player at Bestbuy.

[nightflier]

Well Toshiba's player is also just $499. But if it won't do 1080p, why would anyone buy that over a good ol' Marantz DV6600?

It looks like Blu-Ray has an early lead in the race, but so far I have yet to actually see either of these players on the shelf....

[Smokey]

Well Toshiba's player is also just $499. But if it won't do 1080p, why would anyone buy that over a good ol' Marantz DV6600?

One reason might be that Marantz is not a HD player

[musicman1999]

Eta is mid to late August.My local Sony store told me 3 weeks ago that their eta was November and that there was a question mark on that.

bill

[kexodusc]

Great, now I'll need to buy a new TV just to play 1080p

$1000 price point is too steep for me right now...I got burned when DVD came out...my $1000 player was smoked 2 years later by most $400 players, and now probably wouldn't compete with most $100 players.

Such is the nature of the business.

I think consumers are wise to this. Which means BluRay and HD-DVD might see fewer early adoptors, or at least a slower growth period. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm not just sitting on the fence on this one, I've pitched a tent, and stocked a cooler full of beer!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Bluray plays CD, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD, DVD-RW, DVD+RW just like HD-DVD does. Neither format has an advantage over another in this area.

Kex, I wouldn't worry about 1080P. Unless you have a very large RPTV or front projection system, you will be hard pressed to see any difference between 1080I and 1080P Especially if you sit more than 10ft from your display.

[paul_pci]

For the average consumer, will the difference between 1080i vs. p even be a selling point?

[kexodusc]

Bluray plays CD, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD, DVD-RW, DVD+RW just like HD-DVD does. Neither format has an advantage over another in this area.

Kex, I wouldn't worry about 1080P. Unless you have a very large RPTV or front projection system, you will be hard pressed to see any difference between 1080I and 1080P Especially if you sit more than 10ft from your display.

Really? I notice a modest difference between 720p and 1080i on "busy" pictures with lots of movement...720p looks better IMO. Not the end of the world, but why isn't 1080p much better? Have we reached the point of diminishing returns already?

In that case, why would anyone with a 1080i TV, or 51" set like me or smaller think twice about spending double on BluRay and several dollars more per disc? Any other benefits?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Really? I notice a modest difference between 720p and 1080i on "busy" pictures with lots of movement...720p looks better IMO. Not the end of the world, but why isn't 1080p much better? Have we reached the point of diminishing returns already?

The point of diminishing returns lies in our eyes ability to see fine detail and a given distance. If you sit 10ft or more from the display you will be hard pressed to any differences. Our eyes ability to detect fine detail is very limited at this distance. Secondly all HD DVD and Bluray software is sourced from 1080p 24 frame sources. All regular DVD and broadcast comes from 480i encoding. Because the HD source is already progressive before encoding into the HD formats, none of the artifacts associated with current DVD technology will exist. So asides from the extra detail in 1080p which may be visible are not, both 1080i and 1080p output will look essentially the same. Unlike current video where 720p looks better than 1080i on sporting events, 1080i and 1080p sources will look pretty much alike with sports material.

In that case, why would anyone with a 1080i TV, or 51" set like me or smaller think twice about spending double on BluRay and several dollars more per disc? Any other benefits?

If you have a set smaller than 50" I would say that the picture will look crisper, but the ability to see fine detail will be completely lost on a screen that size. You should see a difference on a 50" screen. In the case the improvement in audio might be what you are looking for.

[GMichael]

I'm not just sitting on the fence on this one, I've pitched a tent, and stocked a cooler full of beer!

Hey fellow camper. I have hamburgers & hot dogs cooking. You want cheese with yours?

[Geoffcin]

Great, now I'll need to buy a new TV just to play 1080p

An excellent primer on HDTV

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/reality.html


To summarize: There are no fast refresh (30Hz or 60Hz) 1080p production or transmission formats in use, nor are there any looming in the near future — even on the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray formats. The bandwidth is barely there for 1080i channels, and it’s probably just as well, because most TVs wouldn’t support 1080p/60 anyway — they’d just convert those signals to 1080i or 540p before you saw them.

The 1280x720 progressive-scan HDTV format, which can be captured at full resolution using existing broadcast cameras and survives MPEG-2 compression better than 1080i, doesn’t make it to most HDTV screens without first being altered to 1080i or 540p in a set-top box or in the HDTV set itself. So what chance would a 1080p signal have?

Still think you’ve just gotta have that new 1080p RPTV? Wait until you see what standard definition analog TV and digital cable look like on it…

[evil__betty]

Both formats will support 1080p - but not yet. In order to transmit 1080p, you need a HDMI 1.3 output and a TV that will accept a HDMI 1.3 input. Neither of these exsit so there will be a lack of any 1080p signal for a while. All of the HD DVD and Blu-Ray movies are captured in 1080p (it states that on the back of the HD DVD movie I looked over today) and once HDMI 1.3 becomes availible on both ends (player and TV) then you will be able to send a 1080p signal. But like many people refuse to believe You won't be able to see a difference between 1080i/p unless you are less than 6 feet away on a 70" TV. Its marketing! DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THIS! With more and more studios releasing (or planning to release) movies for both formats, I think that price will win out. Either that or people will have two formats and buy the movie that they want and play it in whatever player supports it. But fear not, LG is releasing a machine that will play both formats so there will be an end in sight. I'll probably have a player of some sort in my house by Christmas - but we'll see.

[kexodusc]

An excellent primer on HDTV

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/reality.html


To summarize: There are no fast refresh (30Hz or 60Hz) 1080p production or transmission formats in use, nor are there any looming in the near future — even on the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray formats. The bandwidth is barely there for 1080i channels, and it’s probably just as well, because most TVs wouldn’t support 1080p/60 anyway — they’d just convert those signals to 1080i or 540p before you saw them.

The 1280x720 progressive-scan HDTV format, which can be captured at full resolution using existing broadcast cameras and survives MPEG-2 compression better than 1080i, doesn’t make it to most HDTV screens without first being altered to 1080i or 540p in a set-top box or in the HDTV set itself. So what chance would a 1080p signal have?

Still think you’ve just gotta have that new 1080p RPTV? Wait until you see what standard definition analog TV and digital cable look like on it…

The price is aweful tempting on HD-DVD players....maybe within a year or so I'll cave in...I could always buy a PlayStation to get BluRay, whenever that comes out. Chances are neither will be last HD player anyway.

Isn't Xbox suppose to be releasing an HD-DVD drive version fo the 360? I wonder how these consoles will stack-up against brand name players in terms of performance?
They may actually be the best "value" way to go about getting either...I'm sure they'll be a big step up standard DVD.

[Geoffcin]

The price is aweful tempting on HD-DVD players....maybe within a year or so I'll cave in...I could always buy a PlayStation to get BluRay, whenever that comes out. Chances are neither will be last HD player anyway.

Isn't Xbox suppose to be releasing an HD-DVD drive version fo the 360? I wonder how these consoles will stack-up against brand name players in terms of performance?
They may actually be the best "value" way to go about getting either...I'm sure they'll be a big step up standard DVD.

To the release of the PlayStation, (which is rumored to be coming in at $699!?)

Also, I'm sure they will have a first round of discounting of HD-DVD players right around BlueRay's release. Figure the $499 unit going to $399, while the cheapest BlueRay unit is going to be offered at about a grand.

[paul_pci]

This begs the question: why bother buying or selling a 1080p chip if the set cannot process the 1080p signal appropriately?

An excellent primer on HDTV

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/reality.html


To summarize: There are no fast refresh (30Hz or 60Hz) 1080p production or transmission formats in use, nor are there any looming in the near future — even on the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray formats. The bandwidth is barely there for 1080i channels, and it’s probably just as well, because most TVs wouldn’t support 1080p/60 anyway — they’d just convert those signals to 1080i or 540p before you saw them.

The 1280x720 progressive-scan HDTV format, which can be captured at full resolution using existing broadcast cameras and survives MPEG-2 compression better than 1080i, doesn’t make it to most HDTV screens without first being altered to 1080i or 540p in a set-top box or in the HDTV set itself. So what chance would a 1080p signal have?

Still think you’ve just gotta have that new 1080p RPTV? Wait until you see what standard definition analog TV and digital cable look like on it…

[nightflier]

Smokey,

I was referring to the fact that the good ol' Marantz DV6600 is a decent up-converter, too. My understanding is that it can upconvert 480p to 1080p if using the HDMI output. It probably won't look as good as true 1080 content, but how much of this will the average consumer with the average size tv notice? I don't know the answer to that because I'm still in the dark ages (component video & 1080i is the best I can do), but realistically how much does this new technology really buy for the average guy on the street?

My guess is that it will just be bragging rights over technology they can't see or hear. Now where have I heard that concept before?

[swicken]

Smokey,

I was referring to the fact that the good ol' Marantz DV6600 is a decent up-converter, too. My understanding is that it can upconvert 480p to 1080p if using the HDMI output. It probably won't look as good as true 1080 content, but how much of this will the average consumer with the average size tv notice? I don't know the answer to that because I'm still in the dark ages (component video & 1080i is the best I can do), but realistically how much does this new technology really buy for the average guy on the street?

My guess is that it will just be bragging rights over technology they can't see or hear. Now where have I heard that concept before?

Scaled 1080p in a marantz DV6600 looks like nothing compared to true 1080p.
The consumer will be able to tell the difference easily.