Bestbuy offering TV ISF calibration.

[pixelthis]

My new Vizio was the first set I HAVE BOUGHT IN 20 YEARS
that didnt have the contrast set to "torch" mode.
it was also the best looking pic outta the box.
JUst NEEDED TO ADUST the green temp a bit and that was it, and turn down the backlight, of course.

[StevenSurprenant]

Duds...

I really wasn't comparing LCD with Plasma. However, I did read the Sound and Vision article you suggested. I agree that the best Plasma is better than the best LCD that I've seen to date. Myself, I own an LCD for several reasons, lower power usage and lower heat output. If it wasn't for those two issues, I would own a Plasma, or at least a top of the line Plasma.

Woochifer...

Actually, I have two different calibration disks and have run both of them. They come with the color lens. What you might find interesting is that when they display the different color bars and I used the color lens to make two colors disappear, I could only do that with one of the colors. I assume that my sets needs calibration through the service menu, which I cannot do.

When I first got the set, I was using the Dynamic mode and then went to the Standard mode and finally settled on the Movie mode which has the best picture overall. So, I had the same results as you.

My TV also has 5 setting for power usage (back light), off, low med, high, and auto. I usually use low or medium. Off is too bright, low and med is good, High power saving cause the picture to looked washed out like the ISF adjusted Pannie I saw in the store. Auto looks about like the off setting.

I do realize that the LCD sets in the stores are set to Dynamic with the highest brightness setting. They certainly look good in the stores, but at home this setting is awful.

Back on track...

I wasn't comparing my TV with the Pannies in the store. I was more concerned with the ISF calibration differences of those two TV's.

I was considering ISF calibration for my TV, but I am gun shy about doing it since I've read posts by people who were less than happy with the results. As I said earlier, other posters were extremely pleased with the results, especially those with the old CRT rear projection TV's.

As for which type of TV is better, it all depends. Side by side with top of the line TV's I would say the best Plasma's are on top by a small margin. With dark pictures, the Plasma is hands down better. With bright pictures, I like the LCD. Everything in between is a toss up. There is no clear winner.

I think that the signal quality is of greater importance than the difference between TV's.

Disclaimer...

These opinions may change drastically at a moments notice.

[BradH]

I was considering ISF calibration for my TV, but I am gun shy about doing it since I've read posts by people who were less than happy with the results.

Most people like high contrast and bright screens in their homes. They've been doing it that way forever. It's flashy, it's an eye grabber, they paid for the set and naturally want to get their enjoyment out of it. But technically this is the video equivalent of a smiley face on equalizer. People who get used to listening in those conditions usually have a negative reaction with their first exposure to a well curved frequency response whether it was achieved with room treatment or electronically or whatever. They're not sure what the big deal is. It's usually recommended to view a calibrated monitor for at least a week before coming to a judgement. Once you get used to seeing detail in the blacks you miss it when it's disappeared into the black hole of a high contrast picture that seemed impressive before. But I'm not sure what you mean by "washed out" on the set you saw. There's always the possibility the salesman didn't know what he was talking about. (Shocking, I know.) There's also the possibility that an employee tweaked it to their heart's content after it was on the floor. Or it may in fact have been properly calibrated. Hopefully you saw it in one of their so called "dark rooms", what I call the Commission Cave. That's not optimum conditions but it's better than viewing it under the flourescents. There's an entire SMPTE white paper on viewing conditions and you can bet you won't see those conditions at Best Buy and probably not in the homes of customers who are dissatisfied with the results of calibration. If you have it done then give it a week under good viewing conditons because Wooch is right, once you get used to knowing what it looks like, nothing else will do. It's not like audio where you sometimes wonder what speakers were used during mixing and mastering. With video program mastering, there's an enormous amount of effort made to adhere to THE standard so that, with some effort, viewers can see what was intended.

[StevenSurprenant]

Most people like high contrast and bright screens in their homes. They've been doing it that way forever. It's flashy, it's an eye grabber, they paid for the set and naturally want to get their enjoyment out of it. But technically this is the video equivalent of a smiley face on equalizer. People who get used to listening in those conditions usually have a negative reaction with their first exposure to a well curved frequency response whether it was achieved with room treatment or electronically or whatever. They're not sure what the big deal is. It's usually recommended to view a calibrated monitor for at least a week before coming to a judgement. Once you get used to seeing detail in the blacks you miss it when it's disappeared into the black hole of a high contrast picture that seemed impressive before. But I'm not sure what you mean by "washed out" on the set you saw. There's always the possibility the salesman didn't know what he was talking about. (Shocking, I know.) There's also the possibility that an employee tweaked it to their heart's content after it was on the floor. Or it may in fact have been properly calibrated. Hopefully you saw it in one of their so called "dark rooms", what I call the Commission Cave. That's not optimum conditions but it's better than viewing it under the flourescents. There's an entire SMPTE white paper on viewing conditions and you can bet you won't see those conditions at Best Buy and probably not in the homes of customers who are dissatisfied with the results of calibration. If you have it done then give it a week under good viewing conditons because Wooch is right, once you get used to knowing what it looks like, nothing else will do. It's not like audio where you sometimes wonder what speakers were used during mixing and mastering. With video program mastering, there's an enormous amount of effort made to adhere to THE standard so that, with some effort, viewers can see what was intended.

What I mean by washed out is that on the ISF calibrated set, I didn't see any real blacks, only grays. The noncalibrated set looked more 3d. However, I could see slightly more detail on the calibrated set.

Anyway, I understand what you mean about the smiley face.

I haven't used an equalizer for audio since about 1975. Every time I have tried, the audio image looses detail and sounds unnatural. The only use I would have for an equalizer is to compensate for speaker and room irregularities. I had to laugh when you said, "you sometimes wonder what speakers were used during mixing and mastering." I'm glad that I'm not the only one that thought about that.

Perhaps you're right. I should give it a chance. I did it with audio and have been happy ever since.

[Duds]

I'm guessing it was a poor calibration.

What I mean by washed out is that on the ISF calibrated set, I didn't see any real blacks, only grays. The noncalibrated set looked more 3d. However, I could see slightly more detail on the calibrated set.

Anyway, I understand what you mean about the smiley face.

I haven't used an equalizer for audio since about 1975. Every time I have tried, the audio image looses detail and sounds unnatural. The only use I would have for an equalizer is to compensate for speaker and room irregularities. I had to laugh when you said, "you sometimes wonder what speakers were used during mixing and mastering." I'm glad that I'm not the only one that thought about that.

Perhaps you're right. I should give it a chance. I did it with audio and have been happy ever since.

[BradH]

Anyway, I understand what you mean about the smiley face. I haven't used an equalizer for audio since about 1975. Every time I have tried, the audio image looses detail and sounds unnatural.

A better example I could've used would be the Loudness button on old receivers.

I was reading a post somewhere from a Best Buy employee about how they set up two different models and "calibrated" them and compared them side by side in the store. I'm thinking, really? They broke out a colorimeter and did it right there? It's possible. But the word "calibrated" is used rather loosely imo. I'm guessing they used a test disc and eyeballed it. That's what we called a "color set up" back in the day. So, a salesman could say a set was calibrated and the gamma could still be off, having a major effect on black levels.

[dragonwr86]

Best Buy uses a sencore eye for their calibration. Apparently they do a greyscale/color and use the service menu. My neighbor had a calibration done by them. I went over to watch, and to be honest I was decently impressed with the guy. I think for the most part he knew what he was doing. I know for a fact thought that CC uses the spyder pro or whatever and just uses the user menu to do their calibrations. I think that's why their cali is only $149. The BB tech said that the sencore eye they use is worth $10k. Any one know if there is one or can find that model?

[lucasskywalker1]

Look at my previous reply regarding calibration. The one important piece of information that I have as yet to see qouted on any of the forum website I belong to is the reccomendation that not only after your first 100-200 hrs. break-in time should you get a calibration but also on the 1 yr. anniversary after that cal you can determine how frequently you should have the service done(based on degradation) which depend mostly on 2 factors: Quality of Product and viewing hours per year. Take a Panny for instance under the same typical viewing circumstances will have less percentage of degradation than say a Magnavox or Olevia so the requirement could be much more frequent. After 1 yr. if you only expirience a 3 percent degradation on the panny if your viewing habits don't change dramatically you could in theory wait 5 yrs. for your next. I have a friend who owns an Olevia and after 1 yr. he's expirienced an 7% loss he should consider a cal every other yr. Remember the printout is of paramount importance so if a Calibrator can't provide that for you, you might want to look elsewhere.