Beginning of new Blu Ray trend?

[E-Stat]

While there still isn't a lot of choice out there for MC releases on Blu ray disc, it is growing quickly. All things take time to ramp up, but the mixes are out there already.

Growing quickly from two *real* artists to exactly what? Three? Four?

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Growing quickly from two *real* artists to exactly what? Three? Four?

rw

You gotta start somewhere right? Time doesn't stand still right? Real artist means different things to different people. Alexander Jero is a real artist last time I checked, yet you completely dismiss his work as bogus without even hearing it!

I remember when SACD and DVD-A only had a few artist with releases on those formats. Time changed things. CD did not grow to be as big as it now in two minutes did it?

[E-Stat]

You gotta start somewhere right?

Agree entirely - which is why I posed the question.

Alexander Jero is a real artist last time I checked, yet you completely dismiss his work as bogus without even hearing it!

My apologies. Including the text from your other reply, four.

As far as answering the question for you, as long as you have a computer, Google, and know how to type, you can answer questions for yourself.

Then let's shut down this and every interest oriented website, right?

CD did not grow to be as big as it now in two minutes did it?

What is different is that when the CD format arrived, everyone started releasing everything on it. They still do to this day. Recently, I purchased Madonna's "Sweet and Sticky Tour" on BR, but all of her albums remain strictly on CD. While there might have been a few ?? artists and labels who switched over entirely to DVD-A or SACD (now defunct Telarc) using dual layer discs, most released on CD and offered only some re-mastered titles on the high rez format. That is what I think relegated them to being no more than a curiosity. If BR remains primarily a live concert medium or limited to labels like Surround Sound, then it will be doomed to failure in the musical sense as well. At least dual layer SACDs (of which I have a dozen or so) work with any CD player.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Agree entirely - which is why I posed the question.

OK

My apologies. Including the text from your other reply, four.

No problem, just wanted to acknowledge it was put out there.

Then let's shut down this and every interest oriented website, right?

A little extreme huh? It's always the extremes.....

What is different is that when the CD format arrived, everyone started releasing everything on it. They still do to this day. Recently, I purchased Madonna's "Sweet and Sticky Tour" on BR, but all of her albums remain strictly on CD.

Everyone didn't start releasing everything over night, it took time to get musical clearances and royalties straight, get in the stamping production line(there were only a few back then), and get the disc promoted and distributed. None of this was an over night transformation.

While there might have been a few ?? artists and labels who switched over entirely to DVD-A or SACD (now defunct Telarc) using dual layer discs, most released on CD and offered only some re-mastered titles on the high rez format.

There was also some original 5.1 recorded work that was released to SACD and DVD-A, let's not forget that. Chesky was also out there, and 5.1 mixes done by Tony Brown, Chuck Ainly, and Elliott Scheiner were also out there.

That is what I think relegated them to being no more than a curiosity. If BR remains primarily a live concert medium or limited to labels like Surround Sound, then it will be doomed to failure in the musical sense as well. At least dual layer SACDs (of which I have a dozen or so) work with any CD player.

rw

E-stat, you have never heard anything done by Surround Records, so how do you know the format would be doomed if the music was mostly populated by their titles? I hate to tell you this, but Surround Records sales have done so well, they are almost releasing titles by the week. Somebody must like what they are doing because they are getting the money to secure the rights to the music, getting royalties paid, and getting the product in the stamping line and distributed.

BR music does work in every BR player as well, and if you have an Oppo or PS3, you have the advantage of playing both SACD and BR music. I think many folks here have expectations that are beyond reality.

[E-Stat]

There was also some original 5.1 recorded work that was released to SACD and DVD-A, let's not forget that. Chesky was also out there, and 5.1 mixes done by Tony Brown, Chuck Ainly, and Elliott Scheiner were also out there.

True, but in the grand scheme of things, it had a very small effect.

E-stat, you have never heard anything done by Surround Records, so how do you know the format would be doomed if the music was mostly populated by their titles?

What is their volume?

BR music does work in every BR player as well, and if you have an Oppo or PS3, you have the advantage of playing both SACD and BR music. I think many folks here have expectations that are beyond reality.

I guess that would be me. You see, I want my next generation player to sound better with all formats. The first SACD players were decidedly poor with Redbook output. And those of us who really care about sound quality have no interest in $300 SACD players that sound decidedly less good with CDs than we already have and only so-so with the SACD format. While the Oppo BD-83 is a wonderfully flexible unit, its performance on audio is a yawn. That is why Oppo and others have modified the audio stages to get them beyond mediocre. I appreciate the fact that you only use the unit as a transport and rely upon the Onkyo as the DAC. Don't get me wrong about Oppo - I have one of their DVD players and find that it offers great video performance.

I'm not one of those audiophiles who changes components as frequently as they do their underwear. I purchased my GamuT CD-1 nine years ago following comparisons against the very best available at the time. In my reviewer friend's spectacular system, I compared it directly against the Burmester 969/970 transport and DAC unit. The GamuT fared very well, but the big Burms had better response at the extremes and slightly higher resolution. Given that the Burms ran $56k vs. $3k for the GamuT, I felt that I had made a good choice.



I am now considering my next player and the clear candidate is an EMM Labs CDSA. Not only does it play SACD, it also plays Redbook better than what I currently have. My friend now has the XD-S1 and tells me that it unravels levels of detail with both formats beyond what either the CDSA or the CDSD/Dac6e (his multi-channel source) can do. My decision will likely follow what I did nine years ago - recognize that better is available (only $25k in this case) and go for the $11k model instead.

XD-S1

I note a very different situation with video than with audio. While I'm not nearly as much the videophile having only 100 titles or so, I still enjoy the BR format since it looks more like film than the DVD format ever did. And, you can get nearly anything you want on the format! I recently purchased two 60s vintage James Bond flicks (Goldfinger - '64 and Thunderball - '65) and noticed that my all time favorite Sci-Fi flick (The Day the Earth Stood Still - '51) was available, too. I ended up buying "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" in DVD because there was not a BR version). That seems to be far and away the exception with films. On the other hand, only about ten percent of my music library is available in high resolution audio. It has just never been a priority for me to invest in improvements for so little benefit. At the end of SACD's life, I will be moving to that format, but because the EMM Labs players also excel at Redbook, too.

rw

[Ajani]

I note a very different situation with video than with audio. While I'm not nearly as much the videophile having only 100 titles or so, I still enjoy the BR format since it looks more like film than the DVD format ever did. And, you can get nearly anything you want on the format! I recently purchased two 60s vintage James Bond flicks (Goldfinger - '64 and Thunderball - '65) and noticed that my all time favorite Sci-Fi flick (The Day the Earth Stood Still - '51) was available, too. I ended up buying "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" in DVD because there was not a BR version). That seems to be far and away the exception with films. On the other hand, only about ten percent of my music library is available in high resolution audio. It has just never been a priority for me to invest in improvements for so little benefit. At the end of SACD's life, I will be moving to that format, but because the EMM Labs players also excel at Redbook, too.

rw

That's a very good point... Why are audiophiles asked to embrace a format when only a small fraction of albums are available on it, while videophiles are given essentially the full catalog of films on new formats?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

True, but in the grand scheme of things, it had a very small effect.

But it did have an effect.

What is their volume?

I think I have already stated that.

I guess that would be me. You see, I want my next generation player to sound better with all formats. The first SACD players were decidedly poor with Redbook output. And those of us who really care about sound quality have no interest in $300 SACD players that sound decidedly less good with CDs than we already have and only so-so with the SACD format. While the Oppo BD-83 is a wonderfully flexible unit, its performance on audio is a yawn. That is why Oppo and others have modified the audio stages to get them beyond mediocre. I appreciate the fact that you only use the unit as a transport and rely upon the Onkyo as the DAC. Don't get me wrong about Oppo - I have one of their DVD players and find that it offers great video performance.

I don't think your assesment of the Oppo is in line with reality. You don't really need the SE option if you have a HDMI based system as I have. Through HDMI, the Oppo sounds just as good as a lot of high end CD and SACD players. It has a feature that is not included on many dedicated SACD players...the ability to send out SACD in its raw form...DSD through HDMI.

Every review I have seen has given the Oppo high marks for its sound quality especially through the HDMI outputs, and as a owner of one(as opposed to going off of somebody else's words) it sounds as good as the uber expensive two channel SACD player I bought 8 years ago. Now mind you, my processor does a few things that many digital processor do not do(like reclocking the data once it is received to erase any jitter, and reclocks again before output), and it does do post processing using DSD based tools as opposed to PCM, so my opinion of it is probably higher than most. However, most reviews and comparisons made on the Oppo's audio performance was not done through its HDMI outputs. When the HDMI outputs are brought into the review, it usually narrows any difference it has with much more expensive SACD players. Also all of the reviews have the SACD data trans coded into PCM for post processing, which is something my setup does not do, and that will definitely change what you hear from the Oppo.

I think you have stopped paying attention to the equipment I have listed. The Onkyo is no longer in the system I list in my sig. It was replaced by a custom Grass Valley processor that uses two cell processors(the same processor that power the PS3) in a cascaded implementation(which is how it was originally designed to work). I strictly use the HDMI connections in this rig. The HDMI module has been recently upgraded to version 1.4.

I'm not one of those audiophiles who changes components as frequently as they do their underwear. I purchased my GamuT CD-1 nine years ago following comparisons against the very best available at the time. In my reviewer friend's spectacular system, I compared it directly against the Burmester 969/970 transport and DAC unit. The GamuT fared very well, but the big Burms had better response at the extremes and slightly higher resolution. Given that the Burms ran $56k vs. $3k for the GamuT, I felt that I had made a good choice.

That was a good choice.

I am now considering my next player and the clear candidate is an EMM Labs CDSA. Not only does it play SACD, it also plays Redbook better than what I currently have. My friend now has the XD-S1 and tells me that it unravels levels of detail with both formats beyond what either the CDSA or the CDSD/Dac6e (his multi-channel source) can do. My decision will likely follow what I did nine years ago - recognize that better is available (only $25k in this case) and go for the $11k model instead.

XD-S1

I hope you are happy with your choice. Ed Meitner makes some terrific gear, as I have his DAC8 MkIV as one of the digital converters in my studio.

I note a very different situation with video than with audio. While I'm not nearly as much the videophile having only 100 titles or so, I still enjoy the BR format since it looks more like film than the DVD format ever did. And, you can get nearly anything you want on the format! I recently purchased two 60s vintage James Bond flicks (Goldfinger - '64 and Thunderball - '65) and noticed that my all time favorite Sci-Fi flick (The Day the Earth Stood Still - '51) was available, too. I ended up buying "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" in DVD because there was not a BR version). That seems to be far and away the exception with films. On the other hand, only about ten percent of my music library is available in high resolution audio. It has just never been a priority for me to invest in improvements for so little benefit. At the end of SACD's life, I will be moving to that format, but because the EMM Labs players also excel at Redbook, too.

rw

I guess my situation is quite different than yours. Every one of the systems I own, from the least expensive to the most expensive are all digital, and all multichannel. I no longer use analog connections, and so my listening experience is not based on the performance of that connection. While my music collection still has more two channel than multichannel, the ratio over the years has definitely narrowed. If you throw in my personal recordings, then it weights heavily more towards multichannel. Next month I am getting a 8 channel DXD module installed in my processor which allows me to play DXD based recordings in their native format, and the D/A converters will be upgraded to true 32bit with a variable sample rate maximum of 352.4khz. All processing in the processor is software based, and firmware upgradeable, all hardware modules are completely swappable.
Since I record exclusively in DXD, I have a sources that will utilize this upgrade.

[E-Stat]

I think I have already stated that.

All you said was they were releasing 'titles by the week". How MANY titles per week? Is that also a single digit answer like the number of artists who release new content on BR? Does this represent 0.01 % of the total music released?

I don't think your assesment of the Oppo is in line with reality. You don't really need the SE option if you have a HDMI based system as I have.

Such is obvious because you are bypassing the crappy parts altogether. I acknowledged that you use yours merely as a transport. That is why Oppo and others realized they would have to do better for those who actually wanted to use the entire unit. And they did by completely redesigning the DAC/line stage part. I see you now have one of those. Surely, you can appreciate the level of improvement even if that's not the way you normally connect yours.

Through HDMI, the Oppo sounds just as good as a lot of high end CD and SACD players.

That all depends upon the quality of the outboard DAC you're using!

It has a feature that is not included on many dedicated SACD players...the ability to send out SACD in its raw form...DSD through HDMI.

Such is also employed by EMM Labs since they make purposed SACD transports and DACs.

Every review I have seen has given the Oppo high marks for its sound quality especially through the HDMI outputs, and as a owner of one(as opposed to going off of somebody else's words) it sounds as good as the uber expensive two channel SACD player I bought 8 years ago.

Again, since you are bypassed the crappy parts you are only listening to the transport. The sound quality is then determined by the DAC you choose. Have you heard any of Ed Meitner's products in your system?

and it does do post processing using DSD based tools as opposed to PCM, so my opinion of it is probably higher than most.

Just like EMM Labs.

However, most reviews and comparisons made on the Oppo's audio performance was not done through its HDMI outputs.

How many times do you think you need to make the same point? This is now the third time in one post!

When the HDMI outputs are brought into the review, it usually narrows any difference it has with much more expensive SACD players.

I'll repeat my answer to your repeated observation. It all depends up the outboard DAC. Some are good. Some are not.

I think you have stopped paying attention to the equipment I have listed. The Onkyo is no longer in the system I list in my sig. It was replaced by a custom Grass Valley processor...

I'm sure the result is far better.

I hope you are happy with your choice. Ed Meitner makes some terrific gear, as I have his DAC8 MkIV as one of the digital converters in my studio.

Telarc also used his ADCs in their production setup before the buyout.

I guess my situation is quite different than yours.

I would hope so. Few folks would invest extra funds for addressing one percent of their music library. I recently purchased a CD copy of Aaron Copland's 1968 recording of Appalachian Spring with him conducting the LSO to supplement my thirty year old vinyl copy. It is a wonderful piece of music.

rw