EssamCW..... What I said above is accurate. The Yamaha 6160 for $50 less is the correct choice for you over the RX-V663 if you decide to go with the Yamaha. As I suggested, go to the two links at the Yamaha website and click on the specifications box for both receivers. You will see that they both weigh exactly 26.2 lbs and have the exact same specifications. Some of the more expensive models like Pixelthis was talking about have a drop down door. Read below. I didn't plan to get into a more detailed explanation but some people here blow steam when they don't know what they are talking about. It is not that there is a mass conspiracy to keep this from you. However, I think you can often get a better price if you know that there are the same receivers under different model numbers.



"BULLHOCKEY".........."your paranoid fantasy".........."rats patootie"..........Oh Pixelthis, I love it when you talk to me like that!

My fantasies are not about electronic equipment, they are about beautiful women who.........well, maybe I should leave that for another thread.


"the Sony ES line is nothing like their mass market line" (quote from pizelthis)

I have owned 3 Sony receivers. One was from their regular line and two were from the ES series. The last ES was one model down from the top of the line and did not have a comparable model in the regular line. The first ES was the entry level model in the ES series and was the exact twin of a model in the regular series. There were cosmetic differences as well as a length of warranty difference. I mentioned these types of minor differences above but apparently he didn't read very carefully. I dealt with the same saleperson for almost 10 years who sold me this ES. We went to the same high school and university and became good friends. He confirmed my supsicions that these were for all intents and purposes the same receiver. I bought the normally higher priced ES model because they had a great sale price on it. A check of Sony's current models shows exactly what I'm talking about. The Sony STR-DG2100 from their regualr line and the Sony STR-DA4300ES from the ES line are twins (not exact twins, slight differences as I mentioned already, cousins if you will). See here to confirm:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665200450

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665192795 ($100 diff in list price)


"My Integra has a sleeker look , better build quality, a better warranty, gold plated plugs,
etc." (quote from pixelthis)

My comments above were general. Many brands like Sony, Yamaha and Denon have some models that overlap usually in the higher models for their regular line and the lower models of their premium line. These marketing strategies can change from year to year so it is wise to compare the features and specs to see if any of the models are comparables. One tip off is to check further and see if any models form the regular and premium lines tha have the exact or nearly exact weight. Check these out in detail and you might have a match.

I don't think Pionner currently does this. They cut off the regular Pioneer line and then begin with the Pioneer Elite line, although I'm quite sure they used this marketing stragey in the past. Pioneer is definitely drawing back in their models. They appartently are discontinuing making their own plasmas, or at least their own panels to save manufacturing costs. I can only presume that Panasonic is taking them to the cleaners competition wise. This might at first tend to confirm Pixelthis' comment in a recent post....."Plasma is dead"....... However, alert people might have noticed that Panasonic has now added three new plasma models in a new size, 46". Doesn't sound like the leader in the plasma industry thinks plasmas are dead. BTW, several years ago Panasonic made a DVD player that came in three different model numbers, the DVD-RV32, the DVD-RV27 and the DVD-RV22. The model 32 sold at Magnolia, the 27 sold at Sears and the 22 sold at Costco. There were one or two extremely minor differences. The 32 sold for about $134.95, the 27 sold for about $119.95 and the 22 sold for about $99. This was sure lots of trouble if the manufacutrer or dealers didn't care if anyone knew.

On to the Onkyo and Integra lines. Wonder why if Onkyo is not trying to keep this distinction somewhat quiet from most inexperienced buyers, "They don't really give a rats patootie if you know or not, they certainly dont hide it" (a quote from Pixelthis), they have completely different websites. Apparently it did the job in fooling Pixelthis since he doesn't know that the Onkyo and Interga lines are cousins, with the same build quality, right up to the top of the line models in each series (there are a couple of exceptions). I won't go into each set of cousins but I'll go right to the top. The Onkyo TX-NR905 and the Integra DTR-8.8 are cousins. For most regular buyers like those on this forum the Onkyo TX-NR905 is a probably a better choice due to the fact that they don't need the few extra differences in the Integra DTR-8.8 and will get a better price. Integra is the premium line geared for higher end dealers especially those into custom installations.

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i

Yes, the Integra has an extra year of warranty and 15 band eq versus 7 band eq on the Onkyo, a few other minor features and maybe prettier cosmetics. There is nothing here for me or most other buyers here to go with the Integra unless the price is the same. Now, as a side note, I was in marketing and sales for many years at the retail, wholesale and the factory level. I know the BS that trickles down to the dealers and customers. These two receivers are virtually 99% the same unit. The stories you might hear about the Integra line getting the hand picked cream of the crop parts is nonsense. Understand that in no way am I trashing Integra. Both Integra and Onkyo are very fine products. They both have in my opinion great receiver amps and video processors for their prices. Both of these brutes weigh in at 54lbs!

"anybody whos' been in this for any lenght of time will know this" (quote by Pixelthis) I've been into this (audio and HT) since 1969, the year of my first system purchase.

I think you will be happy with either the Yamaha or Onkyo receiver. (I won't tell you that the Integra DTR-5.8 is the cousin of the Onkyo TX-SR605 because the 605 would almost certainly be lower priced for you).

RR6