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  1. #1
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    Yamaha HTR-6160BL or Onkyo TX-SR605?

    I'm buying a new receiver tomorrow but I was just wondering which one I should go for. I heard great things about the Onkyo TX-SR605, but many people are recommending the Yamaha. What do you guys think would be best for my Sony speakers? All I'm gonna use this receiver for is PS3 (blu-ray as well), and Xbox 360.

    Yamaha HTR-6160BL 665 Watt 7.1 Receiver

    Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 Channel Receiver

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Bill L
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    I've always liked the versitilty of the Yamaha a/v's. Either receiver would be fine for your intended uses, but I like the Yamahas better if you expand your uses of the receiver.

    Bill
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  3. #3
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    I tend to favor the Yamaha receivers, but it's a pretty close call. Just in case you don't know, the Yamaha HTR-6160 and the Yamaha RX-V663 are the same receiver under different Yamaha lines. They sell thru different classes of retailers.

    http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...l?CNTID=567571

    http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...2&CTID=5000400

    So any comments or reveiws you see about one apply to both.

    RR6

  4. #4
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    Wow...

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    I tend to favor the Yamaha receivers, but it's a pretty close call. Just in case you don't know, the Yamaha HTR-6160 and the Yamaha RX-V663 are the same receiver under different Yamaha lines. They sell thru different classes of retailers.

    http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...l?CNTID=567571

    http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...2&CTID=5000400

    So any comments or reveiws you see about one apply to both.

    RR6
    Wow, I really did not know that. Thanks for that detail. Why is the 6160 almost $50 cheaper though? Is there really any sort of insignificance?

  5. #5
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    Both models show a manufacturer's price of $550, see the links for Yamaha above. It looks like most dealers show them with a list price of about $500. The prices I found at www.pricegrabber.com both show around $360 at the low price (including shipping and no tax in my state). In your area the 6160 might have better prices. Also the lower end local dealers might be more willing to give a better price. Go to the Yamaha link I provided and carefully check all the specs and features. There might possibly be one or two very small and probably insignificant differences. The important specs are all identical as these units are inside. Don't be fooled if they list the amp power specs slightly different, they are the same.

    Many brands like Yamaha have two parallel model lines. One they sell at dealers like Magnolia and other audio/home theater shops. These dealers get pissed off when the mass marketers down the road sell the same models for discounted prices. So they came out with the same units with different model numbers and sometimes small cosmetic changes with maybe a different feature or two. However, under the hood they come off the same assembly line with the same amps, etc. I have seen some receiver owner's manuals that use the same exacpt copy with both model numbers on the cover, duh (too cheap to print out separate manuals).


    Denon (AVR-low numbers & AVR-high numbers) , Sony (Sony ES), Yamaha (HTR & RX-V), Onkyo (Integra), Pioneer (Pioneer Elite) and others do this. For example Costco gets a Panasonic plasma that has a slightly different model number than the same plasma at Magnolia. This way the dealers can tell their customers that their models are better quality (not true), etc whether it is receivers, TV or other components. Many brands like Sony have the cheaper receivers up to mid level with just the Sony designation. There might be some duplication in the mid models and then the higher priced models have the Sony ES designation. Sometimes the higher end designation might have a longer warranty. The highest power and best featured models are in the higher line only.

    The Yamaha has the HTR line (usually thru lower end dealers) and then the RX-V/RX-Z/RX-N line (thru higher end dealers). The two lines overlap in the midrange receivers like the 6160 and the 663. Just shop for where you get the best deal. Some of the cheaper prices on the web might not be from "authorized dealers" and not carry the manufacturer's warranty. Quality receivers like Yamaha have an extremely low rate of failure in the warranty period. That is why I always go "self-insured" and take the extra discount over the higher price and the warranty. In the end I am money way ahead. I have been buying receivers and amps since I started in audio in 1969 (probably a dozen or more) and have never had a repair except on my Marantz 2270 when it was 12 years old. My Onkyo about 10 years ago was DOA upon opening the box and of course I was refunded my money, but that is rare.

    RR6

    PS: The manufacturers (or dealers or those here who work for dealers) don't want you to know this.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    Both models show a manufacturer's price of $550, see the links for Yamaha above. It looks like most dealers show them with a list price of about $500. The prices I found at www.pricegrabber.com both show around $360 at the low price (including shipping and no tax in my state). In your area the 6160 might have better prices. Also the lower end local dealers might be more willing to give a better price. Go to the Yamaha link I provided and carefully check all the specs and features. There might possibly be one or two very small and probably insignificant differences. The important specs are all identical as these units are inside. Don't be fooled if they list the amp power specs slightly different, they are the same.

    Many brands like Yamaha have two parallel model lines. One they sell at dealers like Magnolia and other audio/home theater shops. These dealers get pissed off when the mass marketers down the road sell the same models for discounted prices. So they came out with the same units with different model numbers and sometimes small cosmetic changes with maybe a different feature or two. However, under the hood they come off the same assembly line with the same amps, etc. I have seen some receiver owner's manuals that use the same exacpt copy with both model numbers on the cover, duh (too cheap to print out separate manuals).


    Denon (AVR-low numbers & AVR-high numbers) , Sony (Sony ES), Yamaha (HTR & RX-V), Onkyo (Integra), Pioneer (Pioneer Elite) and others do this. For example Costco gets a Panasonic plasma that has a slightly different model number than the same plasma at Magnolia. This way the dealers can tell their customers that their models are better quality (not true), etc whether it is receivers, TV or other components. Many brands like Sony have the cheaper receivers up to mid level with just the Sony designation. There might be some duplication in the mid models and then the higher priced models have the Sony ES designation. Sometimes the higher end designation might have a longer warranty. The highest power and best featured models are in the higher line only.

    The Yamaha has the HTR line (usually thru lower end dealers) and then the RX-V/RX-Z/RX-N line (thru higher end dealers). The two lines overlap in the midrange receivers like the 6160 and the 663. Just shop for where you get the best deal. Some of the cheaper prices on the web might not be from "authorized dealers" and not carry the manufacturer's warranty. Quality receivers like Yamaha have an extremely low rate of failure in the warranty period. That is why I always go "self-insured" and take the extra discount over the higher price and the warranty. In the end I am money way ahead. I have been buying receivers and amps since I started in audio in 1969 (probably a dozen or more) and have never had a repair except on my Marantz 2270 when it was 12 years old. My Onkyo about 10 years ago was DOA upon opening the box and of course I was refunded my money, but that is rare.

    RR6

    PS: The manufacturers (or dealers or those here who work for dealers) don't want you to know this.
    BULLHOCKEY.
    They dont really give a rats patootie if you know or not, they certainly dont hide it.
    And its not only audio/video where this marketing gimmick is done.
    Milwalkees best is Miller off the bottom of the vat, keystone is Coors off of the bottom of the vat.
    I had a mazda protege for three years, a ford focus is an identical car, except made in America.
    Sometimes there are differences, although slight, and almost always the quality
    is a little better.
    My Integra has a sleeker look , better build quality, a better warranty, gold plated plugs,
    etc.
    And the Sony ES line is nothing like their mass market line.
    In other products the reason for a "high" line are obvious, snob appeal.
    But quite often there is another one in audio.
    A few years ago hi-fi companies did what some purists called "selling out".
    They cheapened their product.
    They didn't cheapen the quality, but the mission, they started doing HT, put convience
    stuff like remotes, etc on receivers.
    people who think that a pure audio path and simplicity are key were noticeably upset.
    Today the market is stratified, and in order to appeal to those with higher line tase on a beer budget most put out a "quality" line.
    Stuff in these lines tend to be sleeker and more well designed.
    I bought RXV instead of HTR because there was no apreciable difference in price, and when the front door was closed the RXV LOOKED A LOT NICER.
    My Integra looks better than a similar Onkyo, its black instead of grey, and has PRE PRO
    features the Onkyo doesnt.
    And quite the opposite , they want people to know about their two lines.
    Why?
    BECAUSE they know that some will always think there is a "difference" and buy teh higher line, which will be a sale.
    and those buying the lower line will think they're getting a "bargain", even tho
    there quite often isnt much difference in price.
    THE MAIN OBJECTIVE IS TO MAKE A SALE, not try to fob off cheaper lines as "better"
    because they have a different name.
    Its just appealing to different markets, is all.
    And if dealers and others in your paranoid fantasy dont want people to "know" this they arent doing a very good job, since anybody whos' been in this for any lenght of time will know this, its pretty much common knowledge
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I bought RXV instead of HTR because there was no apreciable difference in price, and when the front door was closed the RXV LOOKED A LOT NICER.
    Could you please elaborate further on the differences between the two models? No subtleties, please. Is there anything significant that would cause consumers like myself to fork out the extra cash just to get the RXV instead?

  8. #8
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    EssamCW..... What I said above is accurate. The Yamaha 6160 for $50 less is the correct choice for you over the RX-V663 if you decide to go with the Yamaha. As I suggested, go to the two links at the Yamaha website and click on the specifications box for both receivers. You will see that they both weigh exactly 26.2 lbs and have the exact same specifications. Some of the more expensive models like Pixelthis was talking about have a drop down door. Read below. I didn't plan to get into a more detailed explanation but some people here blow steam when they don't know what they are talking about. It is not that there is a mass conspiracy to keep this from you. However, I think you can often get a better price if you know that there are the same receivers under different model numbers.



    "BULLHOCKEY".........."your paranoid fantasy".........."rats patootie"..........Oh Pixelthis, I love it when you talk to me like that!

    My fantasies are not about electronic equipment, they are about beautiful women who.........well, maybe I should leave that for another thread.


    "the Sony ES line is nothing like their mass market line" (quote from pizelthis)

    I have owned 3 Sony receivers. One was from their regular line and two were from the ES series. The last ES was one model down from the top of the line and did not have a comparable model in the regular line. The first ES was the entry level model in the ES series and was the exact twin of a model in the regular series. There were cosmetic differences as well as a length of warranty difference. I mentioned these types of minor differences above but apparently he didn't read very carefully. I dealt with the same saleperson for almost 10 years who sold me this ES. We went to the same high school and university and became good friends. He confirmed my supsicions that these were for all intents and purposes the same receiver. I bought the normally higher priced ES model because they had a great sale price on it. A check of Sony's current models shows exactly what I'm talking about. The Sony STR-DG2100 from their regualr line and the Sony STR-DA4300ES from the ES line are twins (not exact twins, slight differences as I mentioned already, cousins if you will). See here to confirm:

    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665200450

    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665192795 ($100 diff in list price)


    "My Integra has a sleeker look , better build quality, a better warranty, gold plated plugs,
    etc." (quote from pixelthis)

    My comments above were general. Many brands like Sony, Yamaha and Denon have some models that overlap usually in the higher models for their regular line and the lower models of their premium line. These marketing strategies can change from year to year so it is wise to compare the features and specs to see if any of the models are comparables. One tip off is to check further and see if any models form the regular and premium lines tha have the exact or nearly exact weight. Check these out in detail and you might have a match.

    I don't think Pionner currently does this. They cut off the regular Pioneer line and then begin with the Pioneer Elite line, although I'm quite sure they used this marketing stragey in the past. Pioneer is definitely drawing back in their models. They appartently are discontinuing making their own plasmas, or at least their own panels to save manufacturing costs. I can only presume that Panasonic is taking them to the cleaners competition wise. This might at first tend to confirm Pixelthis' comment in a recent post....."Plasma is dead"....... However, alert people might have noticed that Panasonic has now added three new plasma models in a new size, 46". Doesn't sound like the leader in the plasma industry thinks plasmas are dead. BTW, several years ago Panasonic made a DVD player that came in three different model numbers, the DVD-RV32, the DVD-RV27 and the DVD-RV22. The model 32 sold at Magnolia, the 27 sold at Sears and the 22 sold at Costco. There were one or two extremely minor differences. The 32 sold for about $134.95, the 27 sold for about $119.95 and the 22 sold for about $99. This was sure lots of trouble if the manufacutrer or dealers didn't care if anyone knew.

    On to the Onkyo and Integra lines. Wonder why if Onkyo is not trying to keep this distinction somewhat quiet from most inexperienced buyers, "They don't really give a rats patootie if you know or not, they certainly dont hide it" (a quote from Pixelthis), they have completely different websites. Apparently it did the job in fooling Pixelthis since he doesn't know that the Onkyo and Interga lines are cousins, with the same build quality, right up to the top of the line models in each series (there are a couple of exceptions). I won't go into each set of cousins but I'll go right to the top. The Onkyo TX-NR905 and the Integra DTR-8.8 are cousins. For most regular buyers like those on this forum the Onkyo TX-NR905 is a probably a better choice due to the fact that they don't need the few extra differences in the Integra DTR-8.8 and will get a better price. Integra is the premium line geared for higher end dealers especially those into custom installations.

    http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i

    http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i

    Yes, the Integra has an extra year of warranty and 15 band eq versus 7 band eq on the Onkyo, a few other minor features and maybe prettier cosmetics. There is nothing here for me or most other buyers here to go with the Integra unless the price is the same. Now, as a side note, I was in marketing and sales for many years at the retail, wholesale and the factory level. I know the BS that trickles down to the dealers and customers. These two receivers are virtually 99% the same unit. The stories you might hear about the Integra line getting the hand picked cream of the crop parts is nonsense. Understand that in no way am I trashing Integra. Both Integra and Onkyo are very fine products. They both have in my opinion great receiver amps and video processors for their prices. Both of these brutes weigh in at 54lbs!

    "anybody whos' been in this for any lenght of time will know this" (quote by Pixelthis) I've been into this (audio and HT) since 1969, the year of my first system purchase.

    I think you will be happy with either the Yamaha or Onkyo receiver. (I won't tell you that the Integra DTR-5.8 is the cousin of the Onkyo TX-SR605 because the 605 would almost certainly be lower priced for you).

    RR6

  9. #9
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    Thanks again, RR6.

  10. #10
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    Yamaha RXV and HTR Differences

    This was many many years ago. I think it was 1994 and I had the same question. So I called Yamaha directly. This is what 2 different people at Yamaha Corp. told me. I was looking at a RXV-485 which I bought and I think places like Best Buy was selling RX numbers with no V.

    Yamaha told me that the RXV was built as a stand alone receiver and not as a Receiver sold together with a rack system. Meaning RX was sold to dealers as a componet which included speakers and cd players, etc. Then Best Buy breaks them down and sells them seperate.

    RXV's were built with higher quility parts then the RX.
    This is just what they told me and I called back and got the same information from a different person.

    I have to agree that the HTR is sold to cheaper dealers. But is it made cheaper, maybe I need to call Yamaha again to see what they say.

    They only thing I notice is the HTR is always the receiver sold in the all-n-one surround systems I see in stores. I have never seen an RXV in one of these all in one systems.

    I am going to buy another receiver in the RXV line soon because this one still sounds and works like new.

    jjp

  11. #11
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    "I know the BS that trickles down to the dealers and customers" See it works very well, at least in your case. Yamaha is the last place you would call to get the facts. If they are made with cheaper parts then why do they weigh exactly the same? Find the HTR-6160 receiver in a HTIB system, you won't. No manufacturer puts a $550 receiver in a HTIB. You won't because that is all BS that filters down and spread around. Why do some brands actually use the same owners manual with the different model numbers on the same manual?

    If you really want the true answer then buy both of the receivers mentioned above from dealers. Take them home and remove the covers. You will see that they are identical inside. Then return them, OK.

    This is the whole reason I posted above. Manufacturers and dealers have many tricks up their sleaves. I think the buyers should be somewhat on an equal playing field.

    OK, still don't believe me? When you talk to people on the phone at headquarters it is likely you are not talking to technical experts. Even if you are they still might give you BS. I respect Yamaha more than most manufacturers because they are straight on their website. Here is what there website shows:

    .........."What is the difference between the RX-V line and the HTR line AV receivers ?
    There are many similarities between these two product lines. The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using the same high quality parts throughout. The RX-V and equivalent HTR models have the same warranty periods; the same manufacturers suggested retail price, the same features, and the same remote control units. There is a cosmetic difference found on the front panels of these two lines. The RX-V line maintains the traditional white colored lettering normally found on most Yamaha components, while the HTR line provides a slightly different approach. Yamaha has created a new look by using gold colored lettering in selected areas on the HTR receiver series. However, both the RX-V line and the HTR line feature the same high quality black metal front panel construction. The amplifiers in the HTR and RX-V units are identical but rated differently to comply with the accepted measurement standards of their respective channels of distribution. Both ratings are FTC approved and are designed to handle the dynamics of today's audio and video sources. The RX-V line has the power amplifiers rated from 20-20000 Hz. The HTR line has the power amplifiers rated at 1000 Hz. Both lines can reproduce the full frequency response of 20-20000 Hz. The RX-V line is typically sold through Yamaha authorized audio/video specialty retailers, and is not available for mail order sales. The HTR line is sold through mass merchants, catalog retailers, and department stores. You may also purchase the HTR line through the mail. All transactions must be done through the authorized Yamaha dealer network. Any purchase made from an unauthorized dealer/retailer voids the Yamaha manufacturer's warranty"..........

    Above is a direct quote from the Yamaha website. Note if you can't read carefully it says:

    .........."The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using the same high quality parts throughout"..........

    .........."The amplifiers in the HTR and RX-V units are identical"..........

    OK, are there still any other poor confused folk out there?

    Note that in recent years with some brands like Integra and Yamaha some of the cousin models in the higher series might have some features like connectability items for custom installations, etc. but the basic amps and video circuits are identical.

    RR6

  12. #12
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EssamCW
    Could you please elaborate further on the differences between the two models? No subtleties, please. Is there anything significant that would cause consumers like myself to fork out the extra cash just to get the RXV instead?
    What extra "cash"?
    The price is so close that its pretty much a moot issue.
    unless you're install is one like I HAD(with most of the equipment in the next room)
    you are going to be looking at this thing for years.
    You can go for style points and save a few bucks or get something that compliments
    your overall system look.
    Specs are an important thing, but not the only thing by a long shot.
    To quote DAWSON from DAWSONS creek, one is elvis, one is the Beatles, which style statement do you want to make?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    .........."The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using the same high quality parts throughout"..........

    .........."The amplifiers in the HTR and RX-V units are identical"..........
    Terribly valuable info, thanks.

    BTW, however...with your advice in mind, I saw a handful of reviews for the Yamaha "cousin" receivers at Amazon. One troubling review comes from an owner who notes:

    "it can't do the full range of 0-255, instead clipping it to 16-235 and losing Blacker than Black and Whiter than White, which some TVs can handle."

    Truth?
    That's in the 6160 review. The 663 reviewers were unanimously positive. So what gives?

    Also, Can the 663/6160 pass non-HDMI input'd source out through HDMI to monitor? I.E. nintendo over component to receiver out with HDMI to monitor...instead of component out from receiver to monitor.
    Upconvert? I may be mistaken but I think one reviewer claimed the receiver didn't upconvert non-HD signals. Does this matter if, say, using PS3 to play back SD DVD allowing PS3 to upconvert and pass it over HDMI to receiver? The PS3 handles it and passes 1080 to receiver, receiver doesn't need to upconvert. Guess I answered myself. What about non-HD source like VHS or Wii?
    Mind-boggling. Thanks
    Last edited by ILMSTMF; 08-19-2008 at 04:46 AM.

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