Vizio going head to head with Sony & Samsung

[bobsticks]

And I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't like the Samsung fiasco of a year or so ago. One of the consumer-oriented review sites raved and raved about the PQ of Samsung, putting them in the uppercrust of the best of the best flatscreens.

Unfortunately, they completely overlooked the QC and Customer Care aspects of Samsung. (Not that this particular defect would have necessarily shown up in the brief day or two that it took the authors to audition the TV and write their review.) Those Samsungs started blowing up left and right with disturbing regularity after only a couple of months of use. Once the purchasers of said Samsungs started swarming the internet with word of those routine internal cracks, it was too late.

Yes.

That Vizio has continued to spur competition with mid-tier brands is a good thing for the average consumer up and until the point it effects quality across the board. Conceptually Vizio is every bit as important as Runco and certainly more impactful to the Average Joe.

That said, I have yet to see a Vizio unit thatwould score "excellent" or "exceptional" marks. They may well represent a decent value for the money but they hardly represent the pinnacle of technological advancement or a focus on quality control technique. I question the criteria and standrads of the evaluators.

[Smokey]

That said, I have yet to see a Vizio unit that would score "excellent" or "exceptional" marks.

How about winning CNET's Best of CES award in the TVs category...

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-32254_1-20027220-283.html

It is well known that Consumer Reports does not use as rigorous testing methods as say The Digital testing center in Hollywood.

I have never heard of that testing center.

But either way to be fair here CR tested over 75 LCDs, 20 3-D TVs (9 Plasma and 11 LCD) and 22 Plasma TVs in just one issue alone. Where can you go to get such a variety of information on different type of TVs.

And who else is going to test Joe6pac brands like Sylvania, Magnovox, Westinghouse and Philips as other test sites don't bother with these brands.

BTW, welcome back

From my understanding, Panasonic and Hitachi use IPS panels exclusively, and LG uses them in most models. Samsung and Sony also deploy IPS panels in varying amounts.

IPS panels seem to suffer from lack of deep black as it is evident from Panasonic and LG LCD reviews. That is why non of them received excellent rating. But as you said they have better off axis viewing angle.

I think Sony and Samsung use PVA/MVA panels as they have much deeper blacks. But not so good off axis viewing angle.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Smokey]How about winning CNET's Best of CES award in the TVs category...

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-32254_1-20027220-283.html

I have never heard of that testing center.

Its the one that thinks up BS tests to slam the competition

But either way to be fair here CR tested over 75 LCDs, 20 3-D TVs (9 Plasma and 11 LCD) and 22 Plasma TVs in just one issue alone. Where can you go to get such a variety of information on different type of TVs.

WHATS "FAIR" got to do with it?
The trick is to pick a "test" that has nothing to do with real world conditions, that your competition is handicapped in from the start.
LIKE so called "motion resolution".



And who else is going to test Joe6pac brands like Sylvania, Magnovox, Westinghouse and Philips as other test sites don't bother with these brands.

BTW, welcome back

Yep, vacations over.

CR does real world testing, you can stick your nose in the air and say that its not
"high q" stuff that does well in their testing, but truth be told the stuff that does well in their testing is usually good for most. And the reference sets are only winners at the edge of performance, where it only matters in 50,000 + systems.
NOT EVERYBODY has a science project composed of antique CRT's and scalers
that are outdone in the "chip" scalers in most sets these days.
Or five thousand dollar plasma sets that were obsolete tech outta the door.
BE NICE if all or even most could have reference gear, but until that happens there
is consumer reports for those concerned with real world capabilities.

[Woochifer]

How about winning CNET's Best of CES award in the TVs category...

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-32254_1-20027220-283.html

Problem is that CES awards tends to lean more towards features than actual performance. Just read the write-up, do you see any mention whatsoever of picture quality?

But either way to be fair here CR tested over 75 LCDs, 20 3-D TVs (9 Plasma and 11 LCD) and 22 Plasma TVs in just one issue alone. Where can you go to get such a variety of information on different type of TVs.

It doesn't matter how many sets they cull together if the tests themselves are not transparent, with no documentation of the test results or calibration procedures. Other test sites will at least present a full summary of the technical data, so people can judge for themselves.

They purport themselves as objective, yet CR has a history of altering and making exceptions in its testing procedures. For example, the modified mic setup they used for testing Bose speakers, or not recommending the iPhone 4 due to reception attenuation that they observed on an antenna test they do not use on any other cell phones.

And who else is going to test Joe6pac brands like Sylvania, Magnovox, Westinghouse and Philips as other test sites don't bother with these brands.

The problem with rating off-brand TVs is that will not necessarily be consistent from one production run to another, because much of the time they are using whatever surplus components are available at any given time. The panel used on the TV that CR tested might not be the same one that other units of the same model use.

IPS panels seem to suffer from lack of deep black as it is evident from Panasonic and LG LCD reviews. That is why non of them received excellent rating. But as you said they have better off axis viewing angle.

I think Sony and Samsung use PVA/MVA panels as they have much deeper blacks. But not so good off axis viewing angle.

But, what's the good of deeper blacks if the color accuracy and contrast start visibly diminishing as little as 10 degrees off-axis? Unless you watch the TV by yourself all the time, the off-axis viewing is a very important consideration.

[Smokey]

It doesn't matter how many sets they cull together if the tests themselves are not transparent, with no documentation of the test results or calibration procedures.

They prorbaly follow the same procedure as a normal consumer would do. Which is to unpack it, optomize its performance via user menu and then compare it with a reference HDTV. They show a photo of their lab in the magazine issue and looks like they set up LCD of same screen size so they can see all of them at same time and same distance.

The problem with rating off-brand TVs is that will not necessarily be consistent from one production run to another, because much of the time they are using whatever surplus components are available at any given time.

That is true and CR test confirm it. Those four models consistenly ranked at the bottom in every size catagory. And those four models are made by Funai.

But, what's the good of deeper blacks if the color accuracy and contrast start visibly diminishing as little as 10 degrees off-axis? Unless you watch the TV by yourself all the time, the off-axis viewing is a very important consideration.

That is definitely consideration when buying a new LCD. I rather have better picture quality over better angle viewing since I be the one sitting in the sweet spot

[Woochifer]

They prorbaly follow the same procedure as a normal consumer would do. Which is to unpack it, optomize its performance via user menu and then compare it with a reference HDTV. They show a photo of their lab in the magazine issue and looks like they set up LCD of same screen size so they can see all of them at same time and same distance.

But, that's speculation. You really don't know what they actually do, because they don't tell you.

They don't document anything, or tell you what criteria they use to distinguish "excellent" from "very good." That IMO is a fatal flaw, because they're asking the readers to just trust the results because they are "objective" and "unbiased." My experience over the years points to many instances where they altered or doctored their procedures in order to reach certain conclusions.

And other instances of just sheer incompetence, like when they published these sensational headlines proclaiming that nearly all infant car seats failed their tests. Only when other experts challenged their findings and published their own test data did CR admit that their entire test was done incorrectly. The lack of transparency doesn't help, and their scare mongering actually led to huge drops in sales for several car seat manufacturers.

That is true and CR test confirm it. Those four models consistenly ranked at the bottom in every size catagory. And those four models are made by Funai.

IIRC, Westinghouse is not made by Funai. And the CR test doesn't confirm anything, because my point was about inconsistency in the component sourcing. You have no idea if a different production run will yield better or worse picture quality.

That is definitely consideration when buying a new LCD. I rather have better picture quality over better angle viewing since I be the one sitting in the sweet spot

Hope you got your head in a vise -- doesn't take much head movement to shift 10 degrees off-axis! Besides, you should just admit it -- you'd rather take PVA over IPS because IT'S CHEAPER! With that settled, WHEN THE HELL WILL YOU BUY A TV? Time's running out on your essential analog audio outputs!

[pixelthis]

Companies have been outsourcing forever, and I fail to see as to why this is a big deal,
especialy with ISO available.
A lot of these middle class types have not gotten near a factory, but any factory
worth its salt adheres to ISO(International standards organization, I believe) .
You can count on the products of such factories meeting specs. THE ISO
officer where I worked outranked supervisors. We had to get enterprise software, just in time stuff. It was a big deal.
THE fact that a lot of "generic" monitors outsource is a red herring, this is common industry practice, everybody does it to a certain extent, even the big boys.
Great thing about the free market. YOU CAN BOTTOM FEED, which, with declining
prices saves less and less, or you can go with the next line of quality, or you can
go high line, which, IMHO, is a complete waste of time and money, as you get a
very tiny sliver of improvement for the price.
THE DAY where you could rent an established name, like WESTINGHOUSE, and
order-engineer it are just about over, BTW.
With name brands cutting prices deep, profit margins will be slim, or non-existent
OF COURSE the earthquake could change things, nuclear meltdown could change them even more..