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  1. #1
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Talking Is this setup genius or insanity?

    The first question is how many speakers?

    Well, the answer is 18 including subs.

    The second question is how many amps?

    The answer is 6 separate amps.

    The third question is how many watts?

    The answer is about 5000 watts RMS.

    That is just the audio portion. Here are the details.

    The heart of my setup is my Pioneer VSX-1016TXV receiver. It offers 7.1 channel surround via 7.1 inputs and 7.1 pre-outs. I don't use any of the internal amps. I applied some entry level DJ amps to provide the power.

    Mains:4 Sony SSMB-350H bookshelf speakers driven by a single Gemini XG-3001 amp with 100 watts RMS @1khz for each. They are 8" and about half the height of the actual Sony floorstanders but I put them up front on the floor because I need to be able to fill my 6 foot by 8 foot screen with my Sanyo PLV-Z5 projector. Taller speakers get in the way of my projected image. That sucks. They are setup in pairs next to one another as if they were one speaker.

    Center: 2 Sony SS-CN550H driven by a single Gemini XG-3001 @200 watts RMS at 1khz. They are setup also one next to the other.

    Rears: 2 Sony SS-MB150H and 2 Sony SS-MF550H at 80 watts RMS each at 1khz. To fend off lousy listening angles I have a small 5 1/4" speaker on a shelf near the ceiling and 8 " 3 way floorstanders at ear level. Having both high and low surrounds helps in flying sequences in movies.

    Center Rears: 2 Sony SS-MB150H and 2 Sony SS-MF550H at 80 watts RMS each at 1khz. Took the same approach as the side rears for the same reasons with the same speakers in similar positions on the ceiling and on the floor.

    The Subs!!!! The real room rocking comes from my 4 subs hidden behing my 65" Hitachi 65F59A widescreen rear projection CRT TV. I have two Gemini GSW-15N bandpass subs next to one another with true 1300 watts RMS driven to them from 2 Behringer EP2500s cutting off the lows frequency output at 30hz since the subs only go down to 32hz. Filling out the lowest frequencies situated on top of the Geminis are two Sony SA-WX700 dual ten inch subs that have 250 watts amps.

    How about that???

    All this is connected to my PC with my X-Fi sound card and I also use my Toshiba HD-DVD player for high res movie viewing, too.

    Sorry no pics but I don't have access to a camera right now.

  2. #2
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    How much did all that cost ya? I would personally have gone with a simpler, smaller setup for my money.

  3. #3
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Well, I kinda lost track

    Quote Originally Posted by emorphien
    How much did all that cost ya? I would personally have gone with a simpler, smaller setup for my money.
    The speakers were probably only about $800 total. The subs were about $1000 together. The amps cost about $1800. The receiver was $400. My entire setup probably cost about $8000 including my computer. The expenses were spread out over several years.

  4. #4
    Demoted to Low-Fi Carl Reid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert-The-Rambler
    Is this setup genius or insanity?
    Depends...

    Do you prefer watching movies or listening to music?

    If (as I assume you do) you prefer movies then that may be a genius setup...

    However,

    If your preference is music then that setup is clearly insane.... since for $8K you could get yourself an amazing audio setup and even have some change left over for a tv.....

  5. #5
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    How much rubber on the walls (for sound treatment of course...)

    I am familiar with those speakers cause I use an all Sony speaker set-up for my bedroom but in what size room are these set-up?

    A picture would be worth a thousand words in this case.

  6. #6
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    I'd like to see pictures, but for $8000 I would not want to own that system. My father just purchased a nice surround system for just under $8000 using Martin Logan speakers and a Depth sub. I'd choose that over this any day simply on the basis of the better speakers. In my opinion I could design and build a system that would sound better than all that Sony stuff for considerably less.

    So I guess I'd say it's insanity.

  7. #7
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    What?!?! No Pyramid speakers?!?! No HT is complete without some boss twin twelve Pyramids in a carpet covered box boosted from an 85 Camero!

    Pyramid powered by Gemini.... Now that would be sweet!
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  8. #8
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    What kind of neighbors do you have or do you live in the middle of the woods somewhere?
    HOWEVER, if you like your system and you feel it delivers what you need to satisfy yourself and the police are not knocking at your door every moment, by all means, ENJOY.

  9. #9
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    My cartridge puts out 0.4 millivolt. Now that's genius.

    One question though. How did you come up with 5000watts RMS at some unknow distortion? Also you are mixing numbers in different ohms.

    J-Murda

    JRA

  10. #10
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert-The-Rambler
    The first question is how many speakers?

    Well, the answer is 18 including subs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert-The-Rambler
    The speakers were probably only about $800 total. The subs were about $1000 together...edit...
    Wow, 18 speakers, $1,800. Averaged to $100 each. Those people who spends thousands for just two speakers must be truly insane. Or wait......maybe.....no, couldn't be

    Obviously you are young, don't get hung up on numbers, sheer quantity of speakers or watts means exactly nothing except to other young people who often confuse quantity with quality.
    Herman;

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  11. #11
    nerd ericl's Avatar
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    Hey Robert the Rambler,

    You're from VGR right? Welcome to AudioReview.com.

    It's all about quality over quantity my friend, and then, simplicity. Your system is pretty definitely on the crazy side. For the money you've spent, you could get much much much better sound than i imagine you're getting. You want to focus on a quality set of speakers first, then build from there.

    Good Luck,
    Eric

  12. #12
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Talking Thanks for the welcome. And to clarify.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericl
    Hey Robert the Rambler,

    You're from VGR right? Welcome to AudioReview.com.

    It's all about quality over quantity my friend, and then, simplicity. Your system is pretty definitely on the crazy side. For the money you've spent, you could get much much much better sound than i imagine you're getting. You want to focus on a quality set of speakers first, then build from there.

    Good Luck,
    Eric
    Yes I am a moderator at VGR. I built this setup as an all around wonder for movies and videogames and third music which still sounds great. It is so hard to describe my setup in words so I will try to describe it in pictures tommorrow on my day off. I want to clarify that my audio setup only cost about $4000 all together so I don't look at that as a huge deal for what I'm getting. I think for the price I'm getting a huge bargain. The 8000 dollars included my gaming PC, LCD projector, TV, HD-DVD player, and wires and such. Actually everything cost me about $10000.
    Last edited by Robert-The-Rambler; 01-04-2007 at 09:07 PM.

  13. #13
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Talking Movies first and foremost absolutely

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Reid
    Depends...

    Do you prefer watching movies or listening to music?

    If (as I assume you do) you prefer movies then that may be a genius setup...

    However,

    If your preference is music then that setup is clearly insane.... since for $8K you could get yourself an amazing audio setup and even have some change left over for a tv.....
    I want to clarify that audio portion only cost $4000. $10000 includes video devices, a PC, HD-DVD player etc...
    Last edited by Robert-The-Rambler; 01-04-2007 at 09:08 PM.

  14. #14
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Talking I built this for movies first

    Quote Originally Posted by hermanv
    Wow, 18 speakers, $1,800. Averaged to $100 each. Those people who spends thousands for just two speakers must be truly insane. Or wait......maybe.....no, couldn't be

    Obviously you are young, don't get hung up on numbers, sheer quantity of speakers or watts means exactly nothing except to other young people who often confuse quantity with quality.
    I'm 27 years old. I've been experimenting with this for several years and only recently went with the two speaker for every channel approach. I didn't do that for more volume as a highest priority. I wanted better staging. Having a setup with speakers that sound too focused does not sound real. I hate being able to tell so easily exactly where the speakers are. Without the lights on it is very difficult to tell where certain sounds are coming from with my current setup. They just blend into the soundstage better. For 3000 dollars I've got 3100 watts of true bass. It is not some farting sound like low wattage subs with straining amps sound like. The Behringer amps are for professional use and even in the most demanding movie bass fests they laugh at the task and want more. They simply do not distort at all. The Sony subs do well at what I ask them to do; provide bass frequencies from 20hz to 50hz. The Gemini bandpass subs cover from 32 hz to 80hz in a THX style setup where all the speakers other than the subs are set to small. For movie use this offers a tremendous dynamic range. The softest scenes are soft and the loudest scene are really loud. You might wonder why I chose bandpass subs. I chose them because not only are they really loud but they are able to handle way more than their recommended power rating. A musical sub is not what you want for movie use. You want a sub that is optimized for a narrow frequency range to make an explosion sound like an explosion and not explode itself.

  15. #15
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Thumbs up It is true 5000 watts

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    My cartridge puts out 0.4 millivolt. Now that's genius.

    One question though. How did you come up with 5000watts RMS at some unknow distortion? Also you are mixing numbers in different ohms.

    J-Murda

    JRA
    They are the exact quoted specs from the manufacturers. The Behringer amps are 1300 watts bridged into 8 ohms from 20hz to 20khz. So a minimum RMS of 2600 watts total for those two. 250 watts RMS each for the Sony subs is a total of 3100 watts RMS for the subwoofer channel. All the other numbers are measured at 1khz so depending on the amp you can knock off 10% to 15% to get the 20hz to 20khz rating. At any rate this is a true 4500 watt setup at least.

  16. #16
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    Did you have to re-wire your house? Is this setup in the back of a power station? I'm no rocket scientist, but it seems to me that 4500 "true watts" would be roughly 38 Amps of current at 120 volts. That's at least three (ideally 5) 15 amp circuits running at over recommended loads (from where I'm from circuits are generally designed for 50-60% load). And that's assuming that the amplifiers output 100% of the input power, which is most certainly not the case as evidence from the heat energy you feel coming off your amps. How can this be? anyone?
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  17. #17
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Smile Audio causes a variety of power fluctuations

    Quote Originally Posted by pegglegg007
    Did you have to re-wire your house? Is this setup in the back of a power station? I'm no rocket scientist, but it seems to me that 4500 "true watts" would be roughly 38 Amps of current at 120 volts. That's at least three (ideally 5) 15 amp circuits running at over recommended loads (from where I'm from circuits are generally designed for 50-60% load). And that's assuming that the amplifiers output 100% of the input power, which is most certainly not the case as evidence from the heat energy you feel coming off your amps. How can this be? anyone?
    I have the amps spread out among different power lines. The plugs are connected to different sockets. The Behringers are on different power lines to avoid possible disaster because they consume the most power. They have power cables as think as air conditioners. You have to remember that you are never going to max out the power consumption of your total setup at the same time because in a home theater different channels and thus different amps are being asked for different power loads at different times. If I was listening to some low frequency tone through all the channels at the same time then I might have a real problem but since that is not the case it does not matter. Since the only speakers getting low frequency effects are the subs as long as they are separated accordingly it is not a big deal. FYI, I'm using 3 sockets for the amplificaton. Having enough current is not a problem at all.

    P.S I'm currently watching Superman Returns on HD-DVD in Dolby True HD and have no problem at all.

  18. #18
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert-The-Rambler
    Yes I am a moderator at VGR. I built this setup as an all around wonder for movies and videogames and third music which still sounds great. It is so hard to describe my setup in words so I will try to describe it in pictures tommorrow on my day off. I want to clarify that my audio setup only cost about $4000 all together so I don't look at that as a huge deal for what I'm getting. I think for the price I'm getting a huge bargain. The 8000 dollars included my gaming PC, LCD projector, TV, HD-DVD player, and wires and such. Actually everything cost me about $10000.
    I could do a lot better for movies, games and music with $4000 than you did I'm afraid.

  19. #19
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Talking About 20 feet by 12 feet wide room

    Quote Originally Posted by thekid
    How much rubber on the walls (for sound treatment of course...)

    I am familiar with those speakers cause I use an all Sony speaker set-up for my bedroom but in what size room are these set-up?

    A picture would be worth a thousand words in this case.
    I love these speakers!!!!!! They really do sound very good as long as you realize they are not worth fossilized dinosaur pooh for serious bass.

  20. #20
    Romanticist Philosopher
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    Smile I love a challenge!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by emorphien
    I could do a lot better for movies, games and music with $4000 than you did I'm afraid.
    Thanks so much everybody for the responses.

    It is really hard to have this discussion without being able to let you guys hear this setup but I'll do the best I can. I feel obligated to post pics. See you all later.

    Rob

  21. #21
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Well speaker choice is very subjective. I've heard most of those Sony speakers (and definitely the centers) as well as their subs and thought all of them were pretty much awful without exception. I'd just go for a 5.1 built around higher quality components and I know I'd prefer it, but whatever works for you! That's really all that matters, although I don't think there's really any question that if you expanded your horizons and read and learned a little you'd find you could have done better.

  22. #22
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emorphien
    Well speaker choice is very subjective. I've heard most of those Sony speakers (and definitely the centers) as well as their subs and thought all of them were pretty much awful without exception. I'd just go for a 5.1 built around higher quality components and I know I'd prefer it, but whatever works for you! That's really all that matters, although I don't think there's really any question that if you expanded your horizons and read and learned a little you'd find you could have done better.
    We all could've done better for our initial setup, so no need to sweat. Now that I know you are not just here to troll around this site, Welcome to AR.com.
    Having 18 speakers is cool, but if you hang out and learn thru this site, you may findout that you may have made a mistake as we all have. But, maybe you've already have your ultimate system. If that's the case, then enjoy your entertainment. No matter the cost, we are all just trying to enhance what we love love(music, movies, etc).

    Just so you know, your Sony sub is rated 250 at 3ohm. That 250 is not the same as 250 @ 8 ohm. I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, but I'll say 2 of your subs combined has about 100 watts RMS at 8ohm. I'm not sure how low they can play, but you may want to download a free frequency sweep test.and try it out in your system for sh*ts and g*ggles. Free Stuff. No Ipod/promotion related please.

    Best Wishes,

    J-Murda

  23. #23
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    your setup will obviously play good, but for the money, you could have done better, see, 4 small speakers will not match a pair of big speakers, the small ones might go loud, yes, but that's not everything eh? and why did you buy sony's?

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  24. #24
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    We all could've done better for our initial setup, so no need to sweat. Now that I know you are not just here to troll around this site, Welcome to AR.com.
    Having 18 speakers is cool, but if you hang out and learn thru this site, you may findout that you may have made a mistake as we all have. But, maybe you've already have your ultimate system. If that's the case, then enjoy your entertainment. No matter the cost, we are all just trying to enhance what we love love(music, movies, etc).
    Agreed. We have all made mistakes starting out, and probably some of us have made mistakes after we already thought we knew enough not to. A lot of people get in to the "more is better" thing and eventually find they may have been mistaken, just as a lot of people wind up buying an awful lot of the wrong things (Sony for example, if you went Onix, Axiom, Polk, and countless other options you'd have a better system that was less complicated). That's why we come here, to learn and expand our horizons, as it were. Nobody here means you any ill will but if someone comes and shares their system it will be critiqued and suggestions given! I don't think I've ever seen this forum shy away from some tough love when it's necessary. So hopefully you can take as much pleasure from this site as I have, and learn from it as well.

    Welcome to our misguided little family

  25. #25
    SuperPoser Rock789's Avatar
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    a friend did a similar design, only his total cost was about 1/8th the cost of yours...lol
    (he used really cheap stuff...lol)
    it did sound really cool back in the hs/college days... (note this was more of a party system than a theater system)
    anyway...

    all your amps are rated at a specific frequency?
    typically (the amps I have always used for home and car anyways) an amp will be rated over a range +- x db...
    if the specs on a specific amp only are rated for a single frequency, I would be a bit curious how they perform...
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