Is this setup genius or insanity?

[Robert-The-Rambler]

We all could've done better for our initial setup, so no need to sweat. Now that I know you are not just here to troll around this site, Welcome to AR.com.
Having 18 speakers is cool, but if you hang out and learn thru this site, you may findout that you may have made a mistake as we all have. But, maybe you've already have your ultimate system. If that's the case, then enjoy your entertainment. No matter the cost, we are all just trying to enhance what we love love(music, movies, etc).

Just so you know, your Sony sub is rated 250 at 3ohm. That 250 is not the same as 250 @ 8 ohm. I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, but I'll say 2 of your subs combined has about 100 watts RMS at 8ohm. I'm not sure how low they can play, but you may want to download a free frequency sweep test.and try it out in your system for sh*ts and g*ggles. Free Stuff. No Ipod/promotion related please.

Best Wishes,

J-Murda

Why should the ohm rating matter at all? A lower ohm rating just translates to more dynamic output with less of a chance of clipping with the same amp. Sound quality would depend on how well the amp performs at that 3 ohms. I don't think the subs are actually 8 ohms anyway. They wouldn't rate the amp at 3ohms if the subs were 8 ohms would they. They wouldn't sell any. 8 ohms stinks for subwoofer use. That is why I bridged my Behringer amps to get the dynamic output of 4ohm speakers from 8 ohm speakers. The 15 inch subs are 8 ohms. It is comparable to a McDonalds cheeseburger versus a true cheeseburger at a Diner. It is not even close. I dropped the resistance to increase the beefiness of the bass. It must be time for lunch.

[jrhymeammo]

http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG

If you go to this site and click on specificatiohn for EP1500 and 2500, you will see.

It is rated 450 wattsat 8ohm both channels driven from 20 to 20k at 0.1% distortion. This is the figure you want to observe, but it still doesnt state whether they are continous/RMS or not. I believe 1300 watts you speak of is their dynamic power, which is not the same as RMS.

but all in all, it's not a strong amp, just not 1300 RMS @ 8 strong.

Also 99.99% of the time, there is no such thing as true watts. I still dont understand why companies do not get sued for false advertising.

Best wishes, and hope you'll hangout here since I'm certain that you have knowledge that I can benefit from. Just being selfish.

J-Murda

[jrhymeammo]

Why should the ohm rating matter at all? A lower ohm rating just translates to more dynamic output with less of a chance of clipping with the same amp. Sound quality would depend on how well the amp performs at that 3 ohms. I don't think the subs are actually 8 ohms anyway. They wouldn't rate the amp at 3ohms if the subs were 8 ohms would they. They wouldn't sell any. 8 ohms stinks for subwoofer use. That is why I bridged my Behringer amps to get the dynamic output of 4ohm speakers from 8 ohm speakers. The 15 inch subs are 8 ohms. It is comparable to a McDonalds cheeseburger versus a true cheeseburger at a Diner. It is not even close. I dropped the resistance to increase the beefiness of the bass. It must be time for lunch.

Yes you are right about sub. Most of them at rated at 4 ohm. When you are adding up total wattage of your system, you must be consistance with Ohm ratings.

How about this I paid $449 for my Pro-Ject turntable, and am using a cartridge I got in Japan for 23,700 yen. So my TT setup is worth over $24,000. Wow, I just upgraded the Sh*t outta my system.

But serously,

ideally 100 watts in 8 should be 200 watts at 4 and 400 in 2 ohm. But that kinda stability is extremely hard to achieve for designers.

[jrhymeammo]

but all in all, it's not a strong amp, just not 1300 RMS @ 8 strong.

Edit.

opps, I meant to say it's a strong amp, just not 1300 RMS strong.

[Rock789]

ideally 100 watts in 8 should be 200 watts at 4 and 400 in 2 ohm. But that kinda stability is extremely hard to achieve for designers.

double the current = double the watts pending the voltage is maintained which isn't difficult with a proper power supply...
however, not double the watts will go into music due to IIR loss...
components heat up quickly with lots of current... hehe

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Edit.

opps, I meant to say it's a strong amp, just not 1300 RMS strong.

I understand.

My Gemini amps are measured by the same industry standard and they are RMS numbers. They refer to those 1khz measurements as maximum RMS. 20 to 20 numbers are considered minimum RMS. Peak is something different altogether and I think they are required to use the proper terminology if it is peak power. So that is as true a 1300 watts as it gets whatever that means because I will probably never use them all anyway.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

double the current = double the watts pending the voltage is maintained which isn't difficult with a proper power supply...
however, not double the watts will go into music due to IIR loss...
components heat up quickly with lots of current... hehe

Thanks.

[musicman1999]

People get too caught up in the numbers game,in the end all that matters is how it sounds when the system is running.It has been my audio experience that a simple system made up of good quality components is far better than a complicated system made up of sub-par components.I have heard many Sony speakers and even owned a couple in the early days and they sound terrible.I am sure your system will play loud,but that is not what it is about,is it?If you have a higher end audio shop in your area,go and check out the demo rooms,you will hear the difference,I did when I was wearing your shoes.

bill

[jrhymeammo]

ideally 100 watts in 8 should be 200 watts at 4 and 400 in 2 ohm. But that kinda stability is extremely hard to achieve for designers.

I should've said designed product instead.


Well, I dont care if you have 10 or 10,000 watts. Like what some of us said, hope it brings you joy. And the way you started this thread, I betchu do. So, have fun listening to your music or whatever.

Best Wishes,

J-Murda

[Blue Meanie]

I think you've just invented the audio equivalent of the clown car.
Cool.

Jeff

[PeruvianSkies]

Depends.

90% of the people who see this setup will be impressed or at least overwhelmed by just how impressive it looks.

9% will not really give a hoot.

1% will think it's insanity simply because you could of spent that same amount and used less speakers, yet would have far more amazing results.

However, this all depends on what the original goal was. Is the goal to have complete overkill that seems to 'look the business' or is the goal to have great quality sound that is realistic in both music application and home theater?

Depending on who you ask and what you want to accompish than the answer differs. Based on the fact that you are even asking the question leads me to believe that you are going for something impressive, but more speakers does not mean better or more sound, in fact in might cause more problems than you would think.

Anyway...enjoy.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Depends.

90% of the people who see this setup will be impressed or at least overwhelmed by just how impressive it looks.

9% will not really give a hoot.

1% will think it's insanity simply because you could of spent that same amount and used less speakers, yet would have far more amazing results.

However, this all depends on what the original goal was. Is the goal to have complete overkill that seems to 'look the business' or is the goal to have great quality sound that is realistic in both music application and home theater?

Depending on who you ask and what you want to accompish than the answer differs. Based on the fact that you are even asking the question leads me to believe that you are going for something impressive, but more speakers does not mean better or more sound, in fact in might cause more problems than you would think.

Anyway...enjoy.

Compared to the DCM KX Series 2 speaker set I used before this layout of speakers offers a more atmospheric quality meaning that is seems to offer a more open sound that creates a sense of being there. That is important for games, too. Its not about how it looks. It is how it sounds.

[emorphien]

Compared to the DCM KX Series 2 speaker set I used before this layout of speakers offers a more atmospheric quality meaning that is seems to offer a more open sound that creates a sense of being there. That is important for games, too. Its not about how it looks. It is how it sounds.

I think you've been a little misguided. I'd certainly suggest looking at higher quality speakers. A 5.1 system can provide exactly what you claim you want, but with greater fidelity than those Sony speakers and it's not going to have to cost any more than the crazy system you made.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

I think you've been a little misguided. I'd certainly suggest looking at higher quality speakers. A 5.1 system can provide exactly what you claim you want, but with greater fidelity than those Sony speakers and it's not going to have to cost any more than the crazy system you made.

My budget letf me with this choice. I was looking at the JBL Venue series but I could not justify the greater cost of hundreds of dollars. The Sony speakers are good if used properly. .

[emorphien]

My budget letf me with this choice. I was looking at the JBL Venue series but I could not justify the greater cost of hundreds of dollars. The Sony speakers are good if used properly. .

I thought you said you spent $4000 on the surround system.

[Rock789]

I thought you said you spent $4000 on the surround system.

yup

The speakers were probably only about $800 total. The subs were about $1000 together. The amps cost about $1800. The receiver was $400. My entire setup probably cost about $8000 including my computer. The expenses were spread out over several years.

amps + receiver = ~ $2200... that could get you a killer B&K reciever!
but guessin the $1800 for amps themselves were also spread out and not purchased all at the same time... (anthem pva-7 is $1700 new...)

[emorphien]

I'm not going to decipher it all, it's just apparent to me that money was used in a strange way and that better results can be had by simplifying ones approach to making a home theater. As said earlier in the thread, more isn't always better (especially with Sony speakers!)

I'm guessing it was purchased in stages too. That's how I built my first home theater when I was in college, although I think I stuck to a more conventional and probably more cost effective approach.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

yup


amps + receiver = ~ $2200... that could get you a killer B&K reciever!
but guessin the $1800 for amps themselves were also spread out and not purchased all at the same time... (anthem pva-7 is $1700 new...)

Gemini used very clean class A/B amps at the time I got them. Yes I did buy them one at a time. As I tried them I bought more. They have a damping factor of 200 or greater into 8 ohms and generally were a very high quality product. They have since discontinued them and replaced them with absolute garbage. A Yamaha amp with similar specs would cost a tremendous amount of cash and franky probably not sound that much better if at all. I had a Yamaha RX-V795a receiver years ago that was the heart of my sound system. It had a damping factor of only 80 and was only 85 watts RMS!!!! Actually I still use it in my bedroom. The distortion numbers for the Gemini amps are .08 into 8 ohms. That is pure. The Behringer amps are Class H monsters with a damping factor of greater than 300 into 8 ohmn at rated power numbers. The distortion is some ridiculous .00 something number. You check the specs and these Pro DJ amps compare with higher end home audio marketed stuff. All my amps have separate power supplies. That has to count for something. Even a super expensive high end receiver should not be able to compete with so many entirely independent amps with solid specifications. I bought a moderate receiver because I knew I was not planning on using the internal amps and I also knew that I would be using external decoders for HD-DVD and my PC. The quality of the internal decoders would be fine for normal DVD use and the DSPs and equalizers would be more than enough for CD use with my old Toshiba dual disk DVD player with HDCD. BTW, HDCD adds wonderful sound to even regular CD not in HDCD. (High Density Digital Compatible)

It is a heck of a lot easier to just buy all the stuff at once but unfortunately I could not afford to do so and it led to some weird decisions along the way

[Carl Reid]

Gemini used very clean class A/B amps at the time I got them. Yes I did buy them one at a time. As I tried them I bought more. They have a damping factor of 200 or greater into 8 ohms and generally were a very high quality product. They have since discontinued them and replaced them with absolute garbage. A Yamaha amp with similar specs would cost a tremendous amount of cash and franky probably not sound that much better if at all. I had a Yamaha RX-V795a receiver years ago that was the heart of my sound system. It had a damping factor of only 80 and was only 85 watts RMS!!!! Actually I still use it in my bedroom. The distortion numbers for the Gemini amps are .08 into 8 ohms. That is pure. The Behringer amps are Class H monsters with a damping factor of greater than 300 into 8 ohmn at rated power numbers. The distortion is some ridiculous .00 something number. You check the specs and these Pro DJ amps compare with higher end home audio marketed stuff. All my amps have separate power supplies. That has to count for something. Even a super expensive high end receiver should not be able to compete with so many entirely independent amps with solid specifications. I bought a moderate receiver because I knew I was not planning on using the internal amps and I also knew that I would be using external decoders for HD-DVD and my PC. The quality of the internal decoders would be fine for normal DVD use and the DSPs and equalizers would be more than enough for CD use with my old Toshiba dual disk DVD player with HDCD. BTW, HDCD adds wonderful sound to even regular CD not in HDCD. (High Density Digital Compatible)

It is a heck of a lot easier to just buy all the stuff at once but unfortunately I could not afford to do so and it led to some weird decisions along the way

Look, you've gone for a very non-traditional approach to HT.... lots of pro amps and (arguably crappy) consumer speakers.... It's not an approach most, if anyone on this site would go for... but as long as you think it sounds good... then nothing else really matters... Just don't expect people on this site to agree with your choices... it's not likely to happen...

A quick test to determine if you really spent your money well... is to carry some of your favourite dvds and cds and try out some traditional 5.1 HT systems costing around $4K and see if you're still happy with your sony setup.... if you prefer the sound you get at home then you know your money was well spent.... if you get home and want to toss the sonys in the trash.... well....

But trying to justify/debate with members of this site about whether your system is genius or insanity is a total waste of time... unless they actually get a chance to listen to your setup and judge for themselves.... and even then your oppinion is still the only one that really matters....

So just enjoy what you have....

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Look, you've gone for a very non-traditional approach to HT.... lots of pro amps and (arguably crappy) consumer speakers.... It's not an approach most, if anyone on this site would go for... but as long as you think it sounds good... then nothing else really matters... Just don't expect people on this site to agree with your choices... it's not likely to happen...

A quick test to determine if you really spent your money well... is to carry some of your favourite dvds and cds and try out some traditional 5.1 HT systems costing around $4K and see if you're still happy with your sony setup.... if you prefer the sound you get at home then you know your money was well spent.... if you get home and want to toss the sonys in the trash.... well....

But trying to justify/debate with members of this site about whether your system is genius or insanity is a total waste of time... unless they actually get a chance to listen to your setup and judge for themselves.... and even then your oppinion is still the only one that really matters....

So just enjoy what you have....

I will enjoy what I have regardless but I can only hope that we all come away with something maybe we didn't know, maybe a few laughs, and insight into just how unique some setups can be. I woudn't take this discussion too seriously but it still does have merit. I like taking risks to see if I can help others find what they might like. I might be an example of what not to do to some and an example of what some might want to try depending on their taste. Anyway, I'm working on the pics. I have them stored in the digital camera.

[emorphien]

an example of what some might want to try

stranger things have happened!