Receiver cutting off, HELP

[StevenSurprenant]

By the way fellas, I have a very basic system. I have 10 year old Infinity Primus 360 tower speakers. An Infinity C25 center channel. The rears are Infinity Primus 160's. Not very expensive gear, but it's served my purpose for a decade. I had a M&K 75 MKII, but the amp went. Trying to get it repaired. In the mean time I bought a Bic America PL-200 to hold down the fort. Let me know what you think of my bargain basement movie sound system.

I've owned M&K, Paradigm, Yamaha, and HSU subs. The M&K was sealed and while it didn't play as loud as the Paradigm, it sounded much better. That was many years ago. I like my HSU the best at only about $500. They were all around $500 on sale. There are much better subs, but dollar for dollar the M&K and the HSU were the two best I've owned.

It's been a while since I've heard Inifinty speakers, but what I liked about them was that the bass was tight and dynamic. I was reading about your Infinity's on Stereophile and I see that the impedance drops below 4 ohms at certain points. That could explain why your Yamaha had problems driving them. I also noticed that they are 93db sensitive. You could drive these with a very small amp and still get them to play very loud. You should read their report, they really liked these in that price range.

Infinity Primus 360 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Anyway, it looks like a very nice system. All that really matters is what you think.

BTW, we all don't have megabuck systems. I know I don't. Nor do we all have the same tastes. I play music at about 75db peak and movies at about 90db peak. You seem to like it much louder. That seems to be what's important to you and there is nothing wrong with either way.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Mr. Terrible, while you are certainly more knowledgeable than I, and I'm not being condescending, I must disagree that this is challenging. My ten year old HK AVR 325 kicks ass during the beach scene of Saving Private Ryan. I can turn the volume up to max and it functions flawlessly. No distortion. I can turn music up loud enough so that you cannot hear the person next to you speak.

So you understand what I mean by challenging. For twenty minutes straight you have full power gunshots, deep loud bass in the main channels to 30hz, loud bass to 40hz in the surrounds, and bass to 17hz in the LFE. This is what I saw from the RTA's on each channel in my system while watching the movie last night. There were quite a few occasions where the power meters jumped to 100+ watts coming from the L/R mains, hence why I knew you were running your mains on large. Based on what I saw last night, you are running your system well past the what the power supply can deliver in this receiver, hence why it shuts down during peak volumes. I do not recommend any speaker being put to large when using receivers. The demands it places on the amps is far to high for most receivers to handle. Receivers are really designed to handle 80hz and above, and leave the heavy bass lifting to the subwoofer. When you combine a low impedance speaker(4 ohms) along with deep bass, then you have a problem with a receiver.

The beach scene is the only scene that has ever tripped a breaker on Widescreen Review's reference system, and it has almost the same amount of power as the system in my signature.

I used to have the same problem you did with an old Sony receiver I had many years ago. I used to put that receiver in the standby mode while not watching it, and as soon as a peak hit, it would shut down. Turning the receiver fully off cured the problem.

I may be wrong, but this sounds like a "over current" situation which is triggering the safety circuit so the amps won't melt down.

HK receivers have always been modestly spec when it comes to their power amps in their receivers. They are high current designs that probably could play well past their conservative power rating. However, there is a missing piece here you are overlooking. The 325 can only play the lossy tracks on Bluray, not the lossless tracks. The lossless tracks are a bit more dynamic(especially in the LFE) than the lossy tracks, and that may be why the 325 can hum right through them.

My last question is how do you hook up your PS3 to the HK? It does not have HDMI inputs, and the PS3 does not have 7.1 outputs. How could you test Saving Private Ryan with the HK in this case?

If you are going to compare the HK to the Yamaha, the comparison has to be 1 to 1, apples to apples. I cannot see how a fair comparison can be made of these two receivers.

[BadAssJazz]

My last question is how do you hook up your PS3 to the HK? It does not have HDMI inputs, and the PS3 does not have 7.1 outputs. How could you test Saving Private Ryan with the HK in this case?

My guess would be that he/she used digital optical out from the PS3 to the HK AVR635. :shrug:

[Mr Peabody]

Is it Sir T or Sherlock the Terrible? One good point, setting speakers to "small" opposed to "large", and, one good observation, BAJ, here's what T was getting at, HD audio formats cannot be passed via optical or coaxial connections at least the lossless DTS-MA or Dolby Tru HD. So the Yamaha is asked to handle a wider frequency range, NOW, that is assuming the OP was playing a Blu-ray disc opposed to DVD, if DVD, then, uh, nevermind

Interesting the tech said to turn the amp up full without a load, I was always under the impression that was a bad thing to do.

[BadAssJazz]

Is it Sir T or Sherlock the Terrible? One good point, setting speakers to "small" opposed to "large", and, one good observation, BAJ, here's what T was getting at, HD audio formats cannot be passed via optical or coaxial connections at least the lossless DTS-MA or Dolby Tru HD. So the Yamaha is asked to handle a wider frequency range, NOW, that is assuming the OP was playing a Blu-ray disc opposed to DVD, if DVD, then, uh, nevermind.

.

Yep, I was under the impression that he was using a standard DVD, as opposed to a blu ray. And yep, I saw STT's endpoint, but wanted to toss out the obvious for comedic effect. I've read about 4 audio forums yesterday and people were much too serious about the discussions/gear. ("Why so serious?") In any event, I thought the OP had the HK635, not 325, so all moot. Back to home room I go to brush up on reading/comprehension skills and practice putting on my Joker facepaint.

[Mr Peabody]

I should have known not to doubt your knowledge on the matter. They say you put the "B" in Bad.

Why not get the Yamaha fixed? It's a shame Yamaha won't step in and get behind their product, it's not like you bought it out the back door if the site said authorized. Seems there's a legal issue there claiming something you are not. Any way the 673 has a lot of good feature and a repair bill would be less than a new receiver.

Yep, I was under the impression that he was using a standard DVD, as opposed to a blu ray. And yep, I saw STT's endpoint, but wanted to toss out the obvious for comedic effect. I've read about 4 audio forums yesterday and people were much too serious about the discussions/gear. ("Why so serious?") In any event, I thought the OP had the HK635, not 325, so all moot. Back to home room I go to brush up on reading/comprehension skills and practice putting on my Joker facepaint.

[PaBowHunter340]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible

My last question is how do you hook up your PS3 to the HK? It does not have HDMI inputs, and the PS3 does not have 7.1 outputs. How could you test Saving Private Ryan with the HK in this case?

If you are going to compare the HK to the Yamaha, the comparison has to be 1 to 1, apples to apples. I cannot see how a fair comparison can be made of these two receivers.[/QUOTE]


I ran the HDMI cable from my DirectTV box and my PS3 straight to my TV. Then I ran a digital optical cable from the TV's digital optical out down to the HK AVR 325. So I suppose I wasn't comparing apples to apples because the system set up was different, but I just received the Yamaha back. Now I will remove the HK and replace with the Yamaha and will test it again with the exact same set up.

First I will try the Yamaha tech's suggestion of disconnecting all speakers and turning the unit all the way up with a movie playing in the PS3. If the problem still exists and the unit again cuts off, I will try your suggestions of setting my two front tower speakers to small. Then I will change my power cords around so that I can turn off the power completely when not in use.

Can you explain what you meant by this: "The 325 can only play the lossy tracks on Bluray, not the lossless tracks. The lossless tracks are a bit more dynamic(especially in the LFE) than the lossy tracks, and that may be why the 325 can hum right through them."
I don't know what "lossless tracks" or "lossy tracks" are. And I do use the LFE.

Also, what affect if any is there on a 7.2 receiver if you configure your speakers in 5.1? And what happens to the power that is designated for those unused channels?

Thanks again. You've been very helpful.

UPDATE:
Okay, I plugged in the Yamaha and simply connected the digital optical cable from the OUT on the TV to the IN on the Yamaha as I was instructed by the Yamaha Tech. Insert one Saving Private Ryan DVD, scan to the beach landing, turn the volume ALL the way up as the tech advised and th unit turned itself off within 5 seconds.
I immediately contacted Yamaha customer support and explained the situation to ANOTHER tech who agreed that the unit is defective. So now I battle with the retailer who I now found out is NOT an authorized Yamaha dealer thus voiding any warranty. Even though the ad stated otherwise. I have been duped and I am a fool.
This now leads me to a new but somewhat exciting problem. What should I buy to replace my mistake?
I really need some ideas. I mostly use the unit for Home Theatre movie watching, but I do listen to the occasional classic rock station. Denon? Onkyo? Marantz? Harmon Kardon? I know earlier I said I'd like to stay under $1,200.00, but I've decided I'd like to stay under $800.00. Thanks again.......

[BadAssJazz]

So now I battle with the retailer who I now found out is NOT an authorized Yamaha dealer thus voiding any warranty. Even though the ad stated otherwise. I have been duped and I am a fool.

Make sure you pass along the name of said retailer to any and all consumer watchdog groups and BBB. Also, depending on where this retailer conducts business you may yet have recourse through local, state, etc., consumer protection agencies. Clearly they sold you a defective product. Unless your receipt is stamped "All Sales Final: No Returns" you may yet be able to recover your money or get an exchange. Even with an "all sales final" receipt, your credit card company (or Googlepay, or Paypal) may be able to intervene as well. Heck, I'd probably even go as far as contacting my local news depending on the dollar amount, since some of the Bay Area networks all have a consumer advocacy segment aimed at shining the brightest light on these shady retailers.Sometimes you have to shame businesses into doing right by you. Research your options. Even if it's nothing more than a little internet justice, it's worth it.

This now leads me to a new but somewhat exciting problem. What should I buy to replace my mistake? I really need some ideas. I mostly use the unit for Home Theatre movie watching, but I do listen to the occasional classic rock station. Denon? Onkyo? Marantz? Harmon Kardon? I know earlier I said I'd like to stay under $1,200.00, but I've decided I'd like to stay under $800.00. Thanks again.......

What really sucks about all of this is that the retailer ruined the chances of you ever buying a Yamaha product ever again. While I haven't owned Yammie in years, some of their recent crop of AVRs have earned solid reviews for their performance.

I won't tell you what to buy. I will tell you to research and expand your knowledge base and read equipment reviews. Whether it's whathifi.com, dolby.com, stereophile.com, avsforum.com, audioreview.com, or simply hopping into your car and driving to your nearest audiophile boutique to audition gear in person and pick the local guru's brain, there are countless ways to go about making an informed decision. And trust me, if you're anything like the rest of us, once you truly delve in, you'll be glad that you did.

Don't be discouraged by your budget. For $800 you can still get everything that you need in an AVR. Ordinarily, I'd suggest used gear or equipment that has been renewed by the manufacturer to original specifications, but having been burned once, I don't expect you to take any chances this time around. You need to hit a home run here, so I'll leave that discussion for another day.

If you choose to buy from the internet again, be sure to go to the manufacturer's website first to confirm the authorized sellers list. There is only one aspect of your relationship to an internet retailer that you can absolutely trust: the part where your money leaves your wallet once you click "Pay Now." Safeguard yourself.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Can you explain what you meant by this: "The 325 can only play the lossy tracks on Bluray, not the lossless tracks. The lossless tracks are a bit more dynamic(especially in the LFE) than the lossy tracks, and that may be why the 325 can hum right through them."
I don't know what "lossless tracks" or "lossy tracks" are. And I do use the LFE.

Lossy soundtracks are soundtracks that are data reduced to get more information on the disc. DTS and Dolby Digital are lossy encoder/decoders, and these sound formats are exclusively used on DVD and streaming. These tracks do not sound like the original masters they are encoded from, and are a little less dynamic than loss-less tracks.

Loss-less soundtracks have no data removed, and is found in the form of DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. To reduce the size of the audio data stream, Dolby is zipped up in a data reduced "wrapper" during encoding, and unzipped at the other end back to the original PCM file. DTS MA is transmitted as a core(for backwards compatibility), with metadata stacked on top which is the remaining loss-less data. These two formats are found on Bluray disc.

Also, what affect if any is there on a 7.2 receiver if you configure your speakers in 5.1? And what happens to the power that is designated for those unused channels?

There is no effect at all. With the additional channels unused, you might have more dynamic power going to the channels that are.

[Mr Peabody]

Translated, in the end Dolby Tru HD and DTS-MA are supposed to be the same as the original master soundtrack, once decoded no compression. "Lossless" nothing lost.

Lossy soundtracks are soundtracks

that are data reduced to get more information on the disc. DTS and Dolby

Digital are lossy encoder/decoders, and these sound formats are exclusively used on DVD and streaming. These tracks do not sound like the original masters they are encoded from, and are a little less dynamic than loss-less tracks.

Loss-less soundtracks have no data removed, and is found in the form of DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. To reduce the size of the audio data stream, Dolby is zipped up in a data reduced "wrapper" during encoding, and unzipped at the other end back to the original PCM file. DTS MA is transmitted as a core(for backwards compatibility), with metadata stacked on top which is the remaining loss-less data. These two formats are found on Bluray disc.



There is no effect at all. With the additional channels unused, you might have more dynamic power going to the channels that are. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[PaBowHunter340]

So you understand what I mean by challenging. For twenty minutes straight you have full power gunshots, deep loud bass in the main channels to 30hz, loud bass to 40hz in the surrounds, and bass to 17hz in the LFE. This is what I saw from the RTA's on each channel in my system while watching the movie last night. There were quite a few occasions where the power meters jumped to 100+ watts coming from the L/R mains, hence why I knew you were running your mains on large.

Mr. T:
After re-connecting the HK AVR325 I determined that my TV has enough HDMI inputs that I can actually use the HK AVR325 if I choose to do so. I only connect a PS3 and DirectTV receiver to the TV (or AVR if I could). So I may just leave the HK AVR325 in place. Heck, it sounds great. I don't get to play with all of the new technology such as the connectivity to the www and such, but I also have a spare $500 in my pocket. More than likely I'll conduct a slow search for the replacement for the HK. I do like gadgets.
In addtition to all of the other great information I've learned from the responses in this thread, your suggestion to change my front main speakers to SMALL has really made a difference in the sound quality for both music and movies. I literally had to turn the power down on my sub to about 10-20%. I have a BIC-America Acoustech PL200. Not a very expensive sub, but it's getting the job done. Prior to switching my mains to small, I was forced to turn the power on my sub up to about 45%.
I think the only negative (and I'm not sure it's a negative yet) I can see is that the sub is delivering so much of the low frequencies that it's almost difficult to finely tune the correct amount of power to the sub via the power knob on the rear of the sub. Adjusting the power knob on the rear of the sub has become much more precise. I suppose that's a good problem to have. I like it this way so far. Thanks........

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Mr. T:
After re-connecting the HK AVR325 I determined that my TV has enough HDMI inputs that I can actually use the HK AVR325 if I choose to do so. I only connect a PS3 and DirectTV receiver to the TV (or AVR if I could). So I may just leave the HK AVR325 in place. Heck, it sounds great. I don't get to play with all of the new technology such as the connectivity to the www and such, but I also have a spare $500 in my pocket. More than likely I'll conduct a slow search for the replacement for the HK. I do like gadgets.

Man, I am glad this all worked out for you. Here is my only rub. You have the PS3, one of the finest sounding Bluray players on the market, and the best you will be getting out of it is the older lossy codecs. A cheap DVD player would get you the same. The PS3 has the best lossless decoding algorithms in the business, and it would be a shame to let it go to waste by using the HK. However, I am really glad you are considering upgrading to a more modern receiver in the future.

In addtition to all of the other great information I've learned from the responses in this thread, your suggestion to change my front main speakers to SMALL has really made a difference in the sound quality for both music and movies. I literally had to turn the power down on my sub to about 10-20%. I have a BIC-America Acoustech PL200. Not a very expensive sub, but it's getting the job done. Prior to switching my mains to small, I was forced to turn the power on my sub up to about 45%.
I think the only negative (and I'm not sure it's a negative yet) I can see is that the sub is delivering so much of the low frequencies that it's almost difficult to finely tune the correct amount of power to the sub via the power knob on the rear of the sub. Adjusting the power knob on the rear of the sub has become much more precise. I suppose that's a good problem to have. I like it this way so far. Thanks........

Sure. Another tip for the $500 dollars saved. Get you a sound level meter like this one

Sound Level Meter Radio Shack 33-2055 on eBay!

It is infinitely easier to match your subs with you mains with this meter. It is impossible to do by ear, I assure you. When you are ready to buy another receiver, make sure you find one with Audyssey built in. Not only does it correct any abnormalities with your speaker/room interactions, but it time and phase aligns the sub and the mains for better integration and coherence.

You will be in Hometheater heaven after all of this.

[PaBowHunter340]

So the codecs in the HK are older and substandard to the codecs the PS3 are currently utilizing? And this will negatively effect the sound quality coming from the PS3?
I'll order the sound meter tomorrow when I have a chance to shop around on the WWW. But I've found a new one for $50.
Can you explain how the meter assists in matching the sub to the mains? What is Audyssey? What does it do? And what are some examples of AVR's that have Audyssey?
Thanks again.......

*UPDATE: I did some quick research and came up with the following AVR with Audyssey.
1. Onkyo TX 717 or 818 $584.00 to $880.00.
2. Denon AVR2313Ci $900.00
3. Marantz SR5007 $850.00.

Now obviously the Onkyo is much cheaper than the the other two, but cost isn't going to be my only consideration. I've never owned an AVR from any of these companies. And the Marantz has me intrigued. I don't know why. Maybe because I don't know anybody that has a Marantz. You know how it is: First kid on the block with a new toy.
What do you think of these three selections? Please take into consideration that I will mostly be using the AVR for home theater use. And that my speakers may limit the capabilities of the AVR's music sound quality.
Although I have considered shopping around for some new speakers. Klipsch?

Also, I see you have an OPPO BDP-103 and a PS3. I currently have a PS3 which I use as my Blu Ray player. I rarely listen to music via my player. It is mainly used for movies and occasionally a game.
Is there an advantage to buying an OPPO BDP-103? Is the quality of the video better? The 3D? I see I can get an OPPO for about $500 on Amazon.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So the codecs in the HK are older and substandard to the codecs the PS3 are currently utilizing? And this will negatively effect the sound quality coming from the PS3?

I would have to say yes to this. Your HK supports lossy DTS and Dolby Digital, two codecs that came to DVD back in 1997. The PS3 does lossless DTS HD MA, and Dolby TrueHD, two lossless codecs that came to Bluray in 2006 via the PS3. To my ears, the lossy codecs sound lifeless, sound stage more narrow, and they sound less natural than the lossless codecs.

I'll order the sound meter tomorrow when I have a chance to shop around on the WWW. But I've found a new one for $50.
Can you explain how the meter assists in matching the sub to the mains? What is Audyssey? What does it do? And what are some examples of AVR's that have Audyssey?
Thanks again.......

The HK has a enternal pink noise generator that moves the pink noise from channel to channel. You use the meter to measure the output of each channel, and use your AVR's individual channel volume to adjust each channel until they are all the same volume. When you get to the subwoofer, you raise the volume about 3-4db's louder than you mains. The mains should read 75db on each channel, and the subwoofer should read 78-79db.

*UPDATE: I did some quick research and came up with the following AVR with Audyssey.
1. Onkyo TX 717 or 818 $584.00 to $880.00.
2. Denon AVR2313Ci $900.00
3. Marantz SR5007 $850.00.

Personally I would go for the TX 818 because it has the most sophisticated version of Audyssey. Both the Denon and Marantz are great as well.

Now obviously the Onkyo is much cheaper than the the other two, but cost isn't going to be my only consideration. I've never owned an AVR from any of these companies. And the Marantz has me intrigued. I don't know why. Maybe because I don't know anybody that has a Marantz. You know how it is: First kid on the block with a new toy.
What do you think of these three selections? Please take into consideration that I will mostly be using the AVR for home theater use. And that my speakers may limit the capabilities of the AVR's music sound quality.
Although I have considered shopping around for some new speakers. Klipsch?

Depending on which Klipsch speakers you choose, they are just fine. However, I would not worry about speakers that much, what you have is just fine.

Also, I see you have an OPPO BDP-103 and a PS3. I currently have a PS3 which I use as my Blu Ray player. I rarely listen to music via my player. It is mainly used for movies and occasionally a game.
Is there an advantage to buying an OPPO BDP-103? Is the quality of the video better? The 3D? I see I can get an OPPO for about $500 on Amazon.

If you are going to watch Bluray movies, there really is no difference between the Oppo and PS3. I keep a PS3 in my system because it is just better at streaming, and gives the highest quality Netflix and Amazon streaming of any player aside from the Sony BD790. Not to mention my PS3 plays SACD's.

[Mr Peabody]

The Onkyo would have the closest drive power to the HK