Receiver auditioning hints, tips and tricks

[Rich-n-Texas]

We could send JSE over to tuck you in at night.

No thanks. He'd probably bring that monkey pi$$ Shinner Bock beer with him. :vomit:

[Mr Peabody]

LJ, did you mean to say the decoded HD audio signal from BR would be passed via HDMI? If so, do you have any links, I'd be interested to see how that works, sincerely. The new HD formats and HDMI is one of the most confusing messes.

Also, this is the first I've heard of any popping issues with Onkyo. Where does this come from? I wonder if it's true or just one of those rumors that gets passed around. A friend of mine bought a 605 and driving Paradigm he hasn't mentioned anything like that. Onkyo/Integra is the closest you will get to a high current amp in the mass market brands. The 605 was wildly popular and Crutchfield is actually sold out of many Onkyo models. Crutchfield is an excellent place to buy. I have only had a couple warranty returns. The times I did they sent me new product with a return label for the problem unit.

Rich the NAD T175 preamp does most everything the receivers you are looking at will do. That paired with the Master series power amp would get those B&W's off the ground and give you imaging. If it's a good sound stage you want and your heart is set on a receiver then you should check out Rotel. For the record nothing Best Buy or any of the big box stores carry will compare, remotely, to your B&W. That NAD Master Series amp weighs 98 lbs. and is a beast.

No, I'm not volunteering to tuck anyone in!

[Rich-n-Texas]

LJ, did you mean to say the decoded HD audio signal from BR would be passed via HDMI? If so, do you have any links, I'd be interested to see how that works, sincerely. The new HD formats and HDMI is one of the most confusing messes.

LOL. Yeah, just ask the guys at Blue Jeans Cable what they think of the HDMI unstandard standard!
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...s.htm?hdmidept

Also, this is the first I've heard of any popping issues with Onkyo. Where does this come from? I wonder if it's true or just one of those rumors that gets passed around. A friend of mine bought a 605 and driving Paradigm he hasn't mentioned anything like that. Onkyo/Integra is the closest you will get to a high current amp in the mass market brands. The 605 was wildly popular and Crutchfield is actually sold out of many Onkyo models. Crutchfield is an excellent place to buy. I have only had a couple warranty returns. The times I did they sent me new product with a return label for the problem unit.

L.J. auditioned an 805 at home and experience popping during HDMI handshaking with his ???

Rich the NAD T175 preamp does most everything the receivers you are looking at will do. That paired with the Master series power amp would get those B&W's off the ground and give you imaging. If it's a good sound stage you want and your heart is set on a receiver then you should check out Rotel. For the record nothing Best Buy or any of the big box stores carry will compare, remotely, to your B&W. That NAD Master Series amp weighs 98 lbs. and is a beast.

The NAD T175 is nice, and if you're referring to the Master Series M25 7 channel amp, yes it's a hundred pound beast. It would probably cause a LOT of stress on my u-build-it audio cabinet. The closet NAD dealer is 17 miles and they're an installation firm. Not likely I'd be able to get competitive pricing. Any idea what those two components would run? Audiogon's got a used T175 for $3500. Can't do that!

Oh yeah... more TI DSP's too!

[Mr Peabody]

That has to be a misprint, www.spearitsound.com will sell you a T175 new in the box for under $1,800.00, msrp is only $1,999.00. The M25 is the one, the same place has a refurb for $2,299.00. I bought my CJ gear from here, they are good guys.

[GMichael]

That has to be a misprint, www.spearitsound.com will sell you a T175 new in the box for under $1,800.00, msrp is only $1,999.00. The M25 is the one, the same place has a refurb for $2,299.00. I bought my CJ gear from here, they are good guys.

Does that NAD have Dolby TRUE HD and DTS HD Master Audio?

I didn't see them on their list.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I mentioned my maximum $2K budget in the Critique my Layout thread I started but I should've mentioned it here as well. I'm moving my TV & audio equipment to another wall and I'm in the process of ordering installation hardware and acoustic treatments as well.

[Rich-n-Texas]

No it doesn't GM. Not as far as I could tell.

[GMichael]

Bummer.

I'm sure that next year's models will. I'd so love to go with separates, but unless you spend a bundle, you never seem to get the latest and greatest.

Maybe someday.

[Mr Peabody]

http://nadelectronics.com/products/h...d-Preamplifier

It doesn't mention any "HD" processing but there are a couple I wonder what they are, like DTS 24/96, what's the difference between that and regulare DTS, would the 24/96 be for HD? But it does have the 7.1 analog input which is the best and safest way of being sure you are receiving the intended format from the movie. Anyway don't base your purchase on the HD audio stuff via HDMI that doesn't look like it's completely ironed out and I'd hate to see you base a purchase on that to only find it's a useless feature. You all really need to do your research and especially read what the Dolby website says about the HD audio formats and HDMI. I bet there's a lot of people out there using HDMI with BR or HD who think they are getting this great HD sound and they are only getting the core DD or DTS. And, they bought HT gear with the buzz word 1.3 compliant or a list of HD audio which it will decode. Is it dishonest? Well, the receiver may decode it but will it ever see it to decode, that is the question. HDMI has done more to rape the consumer and confuse the issues than anything I have ever seen in my entire time in this hobby.

[pixelthis]

I'll look into that L.J. when I get in touch with local dealers. That doesn't sound good on it's surface.

Makes me wonder how many chunks of Onkyo parts are in the Intergra receivers. I realize that Integra is "the Lexus" of Onkyo.


Same quality DAC's as in the receivers? The Integra incorporates three TI DSP's. Did you know that Pix?

Havent kept up much. But everybody screws up every once in awhile
Reason I extoll the virtues of Integra is three years of troublefree, audiophile quality sound
in my 7.4 (which has 192kh dacs, and its three years old!)
And it decodes MP3, wma, PCM and wave over a cat cable (nettune they called it)
And it has an exelent phono stage.
AND a lot of onkyo is in Integra, I just like the styling better, its more expertly done,
its beer off of the top of the vat.
And aluminum tweeters are considered "soft dome", they are certainly softer than titanium.
Anyway I have just about decided to go ahead with the original plan, and get into seperates by using the Integra as a pre pro for some really good amps.
Integra is one of the few receivers that are really good enough to be seriously considered for pre-pro status.
The most fun of getting new gear is shopping, comparing specs, etc, but I sat down
in my friends audio store and listened to the Integra and I was sold, didnt look at anything else, not even a Marantz that I had listened to previously.
It was "love" at first sight, its just really a refined product, feature laden with none of the crap you dont need

[basite]

And aluminum tweeters are considered "soft dome"

uh
no...

and according to your statement, titaniums are soft domes too, because both beryllium and diamond are harder.

aluminium = metal = hard material.
felt = textile = soft material

got it?

[GMichael]

http://nadelectronics.com/products/h...d-Preamplifier

It doesn't mention any "HD" processing but there are a couple I wonder what they are, like DTS 24/96, what's the difference between that and regulare DTS, would the 24/96 be for HD? But it does have the 7.1 analog input which is the best and safest way of being sure you are receiving the intended format from the movie. Anyway don't base your purchase on the HD audio stuff via HDMI that doesn't look like it's completely ironed out and I'd hate to see you base a purchase on that to only find it's a useless feature. You all really need to do your research and especially read what the Dolby website says about the HD audio formats and HDMI. I bet there's a lot of people out there using HDMI with BR or HD who think they are getting this great HD sound and they are only getting the core DD or DTS. And, they bought HT gear with the buzz word 1.3 compliant or a list of HD audio which it will decode. Is it dishonest? Well, the receiver may decode it but will it ever see it to decode, that is the question. HDMI has done more to rape the consumer and confuse the issues than anything I have ever seen in my entire time in this hobby.

My PS3 will only output the true Dolby etc formats via HDMI. If I had a BR player with 7.1 analog outputs I could plug it into the receiver I have now and flip it to straight mode. And yeah, that would be better.

[L.J.]

LJ, did you mean to say the decoded HD audio signal from BR would be passed via HDMI? If so, do you have any links, I'd be interested to see how that works, sincerely. The new HD formats and HDMI is one of the most confusing messes.

Yeah, HDMI is able to carry 8 channels of uncompressed PCM. My PS3 & HD-A2 do not have mc analog out. HDMI is the only way to get HD audio from these units.

From the HD -A3 "5.1-channel Dolby TrueHD available via HDMI output only"

From Dolby:
"Increasingly, A/V processors and receivers are being equipped with IEEE 1394 (FireWire®) or HDMI connections, capable of transporting up to eight channels of 24-bit/96 kHz PCM audio content. If your A/V receiver is equipped with this type of next-generation connection, you should look for a similarly furnished next-generation optical media player. By this method of connection, the mixed PCM signal is transported from the HD player to your A/V receiver, where digital signal processing and bass management can be easily effected."




Doldy also states that the sound quality should be the same either way.

" In the end, the sound quality will be essentially the same as that of audio decoded within the player as PCM signals and transported through a current-generation HDMI connection to the A/V receiver."

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...HD_avrs_1.html

Also, this is the first I've heard of any popping issues with Onkyo. Where does this come from? I wonder if it's true or just one of those rumors that gets passed around. A friend of mine bought a 605 and driving Paradigm he hasn't mentioned anything like that. Onkyo/Integra is the closest you will get to a high current amp in the mass market brands. The 605 was wildly popular and Crutchfield is actually sold out of many Onkyo models. Crutchfield is an excellent place to buy. I have only had a couple warranty returns. The times I did they sent me new product with a return label for the problem unit.

I went through 3 805's and had issues with each one. I finally gave up. Here is a link to a poll at AVS. 29% of the 605/805 have experienced these issues. There are good units out there though and this is why I still recommend them.

Onkyo says this is not a malfuntion and is "normal".
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=popping

I kept up with the Onkyo & Integra threads for a bit and the popping issue has been noted on all models from their new line up. This is from a Integra 9.8 thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=4279

Now some of these thread are 10,000 posts long so I'm not searching through all of them.

[Mr Peabody]

GM, good point, PS3 is only HDMI, I wonder how the HD formats does work with HDMI through the PS3? Does your owners manual specifically say you will receive the HD audio formats? It seems PS3 is an animal to itself from Sony but Sony's receiver's are one of the big ones as far as distorting the truth on what the HDMI will do or limiting the capability of HDMI on their receivers. This generalization may only apply to the lower levels I haven't seen each one. I do remember a thread here as well where some one was complaining about the HDMI ability on their Sony.

I'm only going by what I've read off the Dolby, DTS and some of the HT websites. LJ was up on this as well and may have more info. Sir T has PS3 as well and may know.

If your receiver decodes the HD formats does it display like Tru-HD on your receiver when playing movies on PS3?

[GMichael]

GM, good point, PS3 is only HDMI, I wonder how the HD formats does work with HDMI through the PS3? Does your owners manual specifically say you will receive the HD audio formats? It seems PS3 is an animal to itself from Sony but Sony's receiver's are one of the big ones as far as distorting the truth on what the HDMI will do or limiting the capability of HDMI on their receivers. This generalization may only apply to the lower levels I haven't seen each one. I do remember a thread here as well where some one was complaining about the HDMI ability on their Sony.

I'm only going by what I've read off the Dolby, DTS and some of the HT websites. LJ was up on this as well and may have more info. Sir T has PS3 as well and may know.

If your receiver decodes the HD formats does it display like Tru-HD on your receiver when playing movies on PS3?

My receiver is a few years old now. I don't have HDMI and therefore, no Tru-HD sound. I do have analog inputs on both of my AVR's. This lets me play SACD in my bedroom. The PS3 will play them two, but with no HDMI, I only get 2 channel music through the analog in. The toshlink is compressed, and I don't think that the PS3 will output SACD's through it anyhow.
Right now I have all sound from the PS3 coming through the toshlink. No Tru-HD or SACD's.

[L.J.]

If your receiver decodes the HD formats does it display like Tru-HD on your receiver when playing movies on PS3?

The PS3 cannot output bitstream for decoding. It decodes and outputs as pcm. My AVR says MCPCM.

[Mr Peabody]

Take this for what it is worth. Seems I need to do some learning on PCM.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=770354

And it gets more confusing, this article casts doubts again...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08...or-ps3-owners/

This will require more time than I have now.

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks for the info LJ. It looks like if wanting to use HDMI with HD audio one needs to be sure the receiver/processor will accept a multichannel PCM signal. It sounds like yours does. The article I posted seemed to indicate the Onkyo 05 series will not. When looking at features I don't remember anythin mentioned pertaining to PCM, what is it called on your receiver?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Great info L.J. I very much appreciate it. Can't give you any greenies, so here's two cookies.

If the lossless formats are transported via HDMI, and the HDMI spec and it's creators are all dysfunctional, what do we do? I think now it'll be important that while interviewing, I'm going to request a blu-ray movie be played through the receiver so I can see exactly what the receiver detects. Hopefully there are indicators on the AVR that light up when the s/w includes Dolby Tru-HD

[L.J.]

Thanks for the info LJ. It looks like if wanting to use HDMI with HD audio one needs to be sure the receiver/processor will accept a multichannel PCM signal. It sounds like yours does. The article I posted seemed to indicate the Onkyo 05 series will not. When looking at features I don't remember anythin mentioned pertaining to PCM, what is it called on your receiver?

No, the 05 & 04 series from Onkyo is OK. It's not always listed in the features but I think will state it somewhere in the manual. Some have phoned the manuf. to ask since it's not always mentioned.

Many thought that the new HDMI 1.3 series from Onkyo's would be able to accept a bitstream signal from their PS3. They didn't realize that the PS3 cannot output the bitstream signal, just decode it and output the decoded signal via HDMI.

[Mr Peabody]

Well, we do learn something every day. I guess there may be hope for those with HDMI or potential buyers, they just have to dig deep to be sure it will accept PCM. I personally would check with the manufacturer, I doubt if many sales people would know what you are talking about and say anything.

Yeah, sorry, LJ, I must have also given you a good chicklet not so long ago. I was told to spread it around some more. He's gone spreading

[Rich-n-Texas]

Well, we do learn something every day. I guess there may be hope for those with HDMI or potential buyers, they just have to dig deep to be sure it will accept PCM. I personally would check with the manufacturer, I doubt if many sales people would know what you are talking about and say anything.

Yeah, sorry, LJ, I must have also given you a good chicklet not so long ago. I was told to spread it around some more. He's gone spreading

Very sad but very true. Another argument for the *bring it home and see for yourself* argument I guess.

[basite]

Very sad but very true. Another argument for the *bring it home and see for yourself* argument I guess.

yes, it's sad...

but bringing stuff home and see for yourself is always good, you'll never know how the equipment reacts to it's envorniment...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Rich-n-Texas]

So where the manufacturer states: "By connecting a player compatible with these new audio codecs to an Onkyo A/V receiver equipped with 7.1 multichannel inputs, you will be able to experience extreme sonic clarity from these new discs[Blu-ray, HD-DVD], while retaining the full use of the receiver’s other onboard codecs." that means that the high resolution formats will be decoded by the AVR, but not necessarily over HDMI, is that correct?

I took that quote from the Integra 7.8's explanation of the 7.1 Channel logo.

[GMichael]

So where the manufacturer states: "By connecting a player compatible with these new audio codecs to an Onkyo A/V receiver equipped with 7.1 multichannel inputs, you will be able to experience extreme sonic clarity from these new discs[Blu-ray, HD-DVD], while retaining the full use of the receiver’s other onboard codecs." that means that the high resolution formats will be decoded by the AVR, but not necessarily over HDMI, is that correct?

I took that quote from the Integra 7.8's explanation of the 7.1 Channel logo.

7.1 multichannel inputs are for analog cables. No HDMI. The BR or HD-DVD player would be doing the DAC. That's great if you have a BR unit with analog outputs. Not so great if you have a PS3 that doesn't have those outputs.
What sources are you planning on using?