OTA Surround Sound?

[nightflier]

I just purchased a new TV with built-in HDTV tuner and will be connecting the input to an OTA antenna. In the past, with my old TV, I used an outboard tuner that only did stereo. So this brings up a few questions:

1. Is most HDTV programming in surround sound? If not, is this even worth the trouble? Will it be in the future?

If it's only Pro-Logic or some other matrixed format, then I could just as well let my pre/pro do the matrixing. If on the other hand it's decent DD 5.1, then it might be worth it. To get sound out of the TV, my only option is RCA-stereo or optical. So to get surround, I'll need to use the optical, but that brings up other questions:

2. How far can I go with an optical cable? My TV is about 30' from my receiver, so that's not your average optical cable.

3. Since optical cables are fragile, I'll need an extra stiff one. Any recommendations?

4. Is this how most people are doing this? I'm just wondering, since this seems a little weird to me.

[Woochifer]

All of the major networks broadcast using 5.1 Dolby Digital, but that's contingent on the local affiliates also broadcasting that 5.1 signal. Some stations only use a 2.0 Dolby Digital signal.

Before you invest in a long digital cable, you'd better check and see whether your Panny will relay a 5.1 DD signal. My understanding is that the digital audio output on the Panny plasmas transcodes everything to 2.0 PCM because those sets aren't licensed to output Dolby Digital audio.

No need for an extra stiff digital cable. As long as you don't kink the cable, and you have a solid connection at both ends, it's irrelevant.

[nightflier]

My understanding is that the digital audio output on the Panny plasmas transcodes everything to 2.0 PCM because those sets aren't licensed to output Dolby Digital audio.

That blows! This is exactly the kind of nazi-control nonsense that makes me want to hurt someone every time I hear the words "license" and "copyright." Sorta wish I wouda known that before buying the TV. I know I can still return it to Costco, but that's a pain in the arse.

[RoadRunner6]

Nightflier, I can't speak for the local stations but here is information from the manual of my TH-C50FD18 Costco Plasma.

P. 44 ... "Technical Information (continued)" Section titled "Digital Audio Out terminals"

".....You can enjoy your home theater by connecting a Dolby Digital (5.1 Channel) decoder and "Multi Channel" amplifier to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminals......When an ATSC channel is selected, the output from the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack will be Dolby Digital. When an NTSC channel is selected, the output will be PCM....."

I only have the RCA audio outs connected now because I need to get a longer toslink optical connector and re-run my connectors and wire as I add new equipement. So I haven't had the opportunity to get DD but the above info seems to imply you will in fact get Dolby Digital if the station sends it.

RR6

[pixelthis]

The sound coming from my cable box is outstanding, really.
Wooch was right (for once) but really the only way to go is with a SAT or CABLE
box, you get a heap more HD channels.
Not to mention digital music, which is outstanding.
BTW the sound from various sources changes, most network shows are 5.1,
but game shows , news and the like will most likely be DD 2.0.

[nightflier]

If only DD 2.0 didn't exist. I saw something similar in my manual, but it didn't specify whether it would have surround sound or not. By the way, does anyone make a good optical right-angle connector? Since optical is essentially light, it needs to have a clean path, even when angled, and so it would seem that this would be hard to do correctly without degrading the signal too much. The problem is that the optical plug on my plasma is sure to put stress on the cable end and/or the plug. I noticed that even the component RCA jacks on the back of my TV are a little loose.

P.S. 'Saw Happy Feet at a friend's house this week. Great surround soundtrack and powerful bass. I'm not really a cartoon guy, but I tend to think that the cartoons have more extravagant surround soundtracks, because it doesn't need to be realistic (it's a cartoon). I also borrowed Tatatouille and Madagascar just to "check." I sure miss having surround sound (pre/pro is in the shop).

[Rich-n-Texas]

That blows! This is exactly the kind of nazi-control nonsense that makes me want to hurt someone every time I hear the words "license" and "copyright." Sorta wish I wouda known that before buying the TV. I know I can still return it to Costco, but that's a pain in the arse.

This is a knuckleheaded post! Knucklehead.

[RoadRunner6]

Ah, like wasn't he talking about OTA digital broadcasts like in ATSC, man?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=180-958

RR6

[nightflier]

I was.

Moving the TV closer isn't really possible. There's just not enough space in the room to do that. So unless I want to step over the cables (like I'm doing now) and tripping over them (like I'm doing now), I really need to run them over the ceiling. With the kids, that's pretty much a necessity.

So yes, I'll be running HDMI from the receiver to the TV and optical from the TV back to the receiver (if I can get more than DD 2.0 out of it). The distance is about 30ft/10M, which is possible with a good solid HDMI cable, but for Optical, I don't know. Now if it does cost me $200+ in cables, I guess that's better than someone yanking the cable out when they trip over it and possibly damaging the plug/cable, or even worse, yanking the whole TV off the wall. I don't think my homeowner's policy will cover that.

(Although I did get it at Costco, so I could possibly risk it for the next two years, but after that I really do need to find a safer solution.)

[Rich-n-Texas]

Red chicklet for me I guess.

There, I fixed it.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Rich-n-Texas]This is a knuckleheaded post! Knucklehead.

[pixelthis]

If only DD 2.0 didn't exist. I saw something similar in my manual, but it didn't specify whether it would have surround sound or not. By the way, does anyone make a good optical right-angle connector? Since optical is essentially light, it needs to have a clean path, even when angled, and so it would seem that this would be hard to do correctly without degrading the signal too much. The problem is that the optical plug on my plasma is sure to put stress on the cable end and/or the plug. I noticed that even the component RCA jacks on the back of my TV are a little loose.

P.S. 'Saw Happy Feet at a friend's house this week. Great surround soundtrack and powerful bass. I'm not really a cartoon guy, but I tend to think that the cartoons have more extravagant surround soundtracks, because it doesn't need to be realistic (it's a cartoon). I also borrowed Tatatouille and Madagascar just to "check." I sure miss having surround sound (pre/pro is in the shop).

WHAT do you mean about DD 2.0 "not existing"?
A lot of material isnt in 5.1 anyway, when played back with DD II a DD 2.0 soundtrack can
sound very good .
You sound like the guy who complained because Casablanca was on TV in 4:3
(that is what it was shot in)

[nightflier]

Pix, are you trying to pick a fight with me. I was only saying that DD is one of those specs bandied about without specification about whether it is 2.0 or 5.1, which is a huge difference. Everybody assumes that DD means surround sound, and I'm sure more than one manufacturer has depended on consumer ignorance to sneak it in here & there, and frankly it's a bit underhanded for Panasonic to say the Optical supports DD when they won;t say whether that includes DD 5.1 in surround. Wooch said it wasn't because of some #$%$#@# copyright restriction, and that is $%$#$@ irritating.

Please excuse the $#%&^%# bad language, #$%^%$#.

[Woochifer]

Pix, are you trying to pick a fight with me. I was only saying that DD is one of those specs bandied about without specification about whether it is 2.0 or 5.1, which is a huge difference. Everybody assumes that DD means surround sound, and I'm sure more than one manufacturer has depended on consumer ignorance to sneak it in here & there, and frankly it's a bit underhanded for Panasonic to say the Optical supports DD when they won;t say whether that includes DD 5.1 in surround. Wooch said it wasn't because of some #$%$#@# copyright restriction, and that is $%$#$@ irritating.

Please excuse the $#%&^%# bad language, #$%^%$#.

Actually, my understanding is that the Panny's optical output does not support DD at all. The output is transcoded to 2.0 PCM.

DD is part of the HDTV standard, so any ATSC tuner will have to decode the DD signal. It's a different rights issue though for outputting that signal to an external device. Keep in mind that a lot of HDTVs don't even have optical audio outputs, they only include two-channel analog outputs.

Best way to figure out what you got available is to plug the optical output from your TV into a receiver or 5.1 soundcard and see what format you get on an OTA signal. The ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox affiliates should all be broadcasting in 5.1 DD since they're network owned affiliates in L.A.

Since I use HDMI and run the 5.1 audio from my satellite receiver, I've never bothered to check on what audio format my Panny outputs.

[pixelthis]

Pix, are you trying to pick a fight with me. I was only saying that DD is one of those specs bandied about without specification about whether it is 2.0 or 5.1, which is a huge difference. Everybody assumes that DD means surround sound, and I'm sure more than one manufacturer has depended on consumer ignorance to sneak it in here & there, and frankly it's a bit underhanded for Panasonic to say the Optical supports DD when they won;t say whether that includes DD 5.1 in surround. Wooch said it wasn't because of some #$%$#@# copyright restriction, and that is $%$#$@ irritating.

Please excuse the $#%&^%# bad language, #$%^%$#.

You are one of the most decent peeps on this board, not trying to piss you off or anything.
But while DD might be misrepresenting to some, if you are in this hobby you
have to educate yourself.
LOOK, I did quite a bit of OTA before HD became really prominent, and I can tell you one thing...IT AINT WORTH THE TROUBLE.
Get a dish, some kind of dish, or a cable box.
Or quit complaining, besides DD 2 , while not 5.1, aint half bad.
Remember, most media isnt 5.1 to begin with.
And with your receiver set to prologic II it sounds quite nice really.

[nightflier]

Best way to figure out what you got available is to plug the optical output from your TV into a receiver or 5.1 soundcard and see what format you get on an OTA signal.

As soon as I have my pre-pro back, I'll do that. It's amazing how not having a receiver/pre-pro can limit you. Outlaw says they're done fixing it and it should be headed back my way, but it's all the way in MA, and with x-mas shipping this is going to be close. I've been chomping at the bit ever since the #$#$^&# spring a leaky cap.

I really should keep an old receiver around just for these situations....

[Woochifer]

As soon as I have my pre-pro back, I'll do that. It's amazing how not having a receiver/pre-pro can limit you. Outlaw says they're done fixing it and it should be headed back my way, but it's all the way in MA, and with x-mas shipping this is going to be close. I've been chomping at the bit ever since the #$#$^&# spring a leaky cap.

I really should keep an old receiver around just for these situations....

Something tells me that you'll get a PCM signal. PCM is more of a default audio format, since it's an open format. The setup menu on the TV has no options for selecting the audio output. Usually, a device with a digital audio output gives you the option of a PCM or bitstream output. My DVD player, PS3, and Directv receiver all provide the option.

[nightflier]

Now PCM supports both 2.0 and 5.1, I believe. If so, I could still get 5.1 out of the optical-out and not have to fret over licensing shenanigans, right?

[Woochifer]

Now PCM supports both 2.0 and 5.1, I believe. If so, I could still get 5.1 out of the optical-out and not have to fret over licensing shenanigans, right?

Optical outputs lack the bandwidth needed to carry uncompressed 5.1 PCM. You need a HDMI output in order to connect a digital 5.1 PCM signal to a receiver.

And you still need a TV that will output a 5.1 signal to begin with. Most TVs process their audio signals strictly in two-channel. I would guess that the signal going through the digital output is the same folded-down two-channel signal that's getting sent to the TV speakers. I would further guess that in order to get more flexibility with the audio outputs and decoding options, you'll need to move further up the food chain to a higher level TV.

[nightflier]

I guess I'm pretty far down the food chain, then.

Tex, this was a freebie.