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  1. #1
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Maybe Wooch & Pix leave me alone now

    Talk about putting pressure on a guy to buy HDTV

    Radioshack had 32 inch AOC (Envision) 720p on sale for $280 (L32w961) and being on a tight budget, I gave it a try. Being my first HDTV, lets just say I'm blown away.

    Only get local OTA channels and HD ones are really eye candy. I usually don't watch Gulf, but the picture was so green and clear that had to watch it. And SD programs look pretty good also. DVD player picture thru component look amazing and can't wait to see how bluray will look.

    Right out of box, TV's color temperature seem to be right on the money and that is a relief since this TV does not have advance picture temperature settings. Black and White programming does not show any hint of excessive color push.

    The blacks are ink black and I am assuming it have Samsung panel since black level are good, but the viewing angel is not so hot. And of course TV have analog audio output

  2. #2
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    Thats a good deal, glad your enjoying it.

    By the way, the Gulf is more blue than green

  3. #3
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    When we first got our HDTV the first thing that we watched was also golf. I was amazed at the detail. You could see every single blad of grass. It was fantastic!

    Congrats on the new TV purchase. Prepare to be blown away at the picture difference.

  4. #4
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Thanks guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    By the way, the Gulf is more blue than green
    As you can tell, my eyes are still adjusting to the new format. I am seeing colors never seen before

    Quote Originally Posted by FA
    When we first got our HDTV the first thing that we watched was also golf. I was amazed at the detail. You could see every single blad of grass. It was fantastic!
    Too much detail can also be scary too. If a person's face is not covered too much with make up, you can see all the wrinkles, hair and pigments on their faces. Not to mention seeing all the exotic creatures from the sea.

  5. #5
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    Congrats Smokey

  6. #6
    Charm Thai™
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    yaaaaaay smokey!

  7. #7
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    As you can tell, my eyes are still adjusting to the new format. I am seeing colors never seen before
    WAIT until you get a BLU PLAYER, you will be amazed

    Too much detail can also be scary too. If a person's face is not covered too much with make up, you can see all the wrinkles, hair and pigments on their faces. Not to mention seeing all the exotic creatures from the sea.
    I THINK that HD is going to lead to a weening out of actors, pretty much like what
    happened with the advent of sound, regular NTSC covered up a multitude of sins!
    Of course you can cover up a lot with digital processing, also.
    ANYWAY, CONGRATS SMOKE, now you might see what we have been talking about,
    and your set is 720p!
    Still a ton better than SD tho.
    Enjoy.
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  8. #8
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Congrats Smokey, I love my HDTV. The detail is incredible but I am a little disappointed that some of my favorite newscasters are looking a little wrinkled and old. Watching lo def who knew.
    JohnMichael
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  9. #9
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. It is always fun to play with new toy

    Going from CRT to LCD, I had my reservations since majority of my viewings are still SD programmings including DVDs. I didn't think LCD could compete with CRT in SD mode in terms of lag time, Black levels and 'film' quality of CRT image.

    But this LCD have proven me wrong as it outperform my 32 inch Panasonic CRT (which is no push over) in every level. It have a feature call Adaptive Contrast and when it is engaged really make the picture pop. It makes old drabby SD shows come alive.

    Since this TV is in my computer room, probably will end up using it as my PC monitor since my PC native resolution matches the TVs. The local store price on SVGA cables are outragous, so may have to order it online.

    My current DVD player do not have HDMI capability, and was wondering how much improvement in picture quality if I switch to HDMI for DVDs.

  10. #10
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    Smokey, if you have component outputs on your DVD you'd be just as well off as using HDMI in your situation.

  11. #11
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Smokey, if you have component outputs on your DVD you'd be just as well off as using HDMI in your situation.
    Does that mean will not see any picture improvment if switching from Component to HDMI output on the DVD player?

    (I guess part of answer to above question would be whether the TV or DVD player have better video processor).

  12. #12
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    On my 32-inch LCD with an upsampling DVD player, I use the HDMI to take advantage of the upsampling capability. There's a picture-quality difference, but it can be hard for us to see at the distance where we watch that TV.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular BadAssJazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Does that mean will not see any picture improvment if switching from Component to HDMI output on the DVD player?
    I can't speak for others, but I could definitely tell a marked improvement between component and hdmi in my setup at the time. Both on the DVD player (back when I used a DVD player) and on the Comcast/Motorola cable box. The only way to know for sure is to try it and see.

    PS: My setup at the time included a 42" 720p Panny plasma and a run of the mill Pioneeer Elite DV49 DVD player. Out of curiosity, I tried both component and HDMI to see which offered the better video. I used a cheap Acoustic Research HDMI cable (which cost less than $10), but a mid-grade Ixos Component Cable (which retailed for $50 when I bought it). HDMI technology generally trumps component.
    *Panasonic 60" Plasma HDTV
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    http://www.panasonic.com
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  14. #14
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Well its about dang time. I am near the end of my life, and this schmuck finally lands in the 21st century.

    Good show Smoke, enjoy your new mind numbing box
    Sir Terrence

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  15. #15
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Does that mean will not see any picture improvment if switching from Component to HDMI output on the DVD player?

    (I guess part of answer to above question would be whether the TV or DVD player have better video processor).
    You will see a (very) slight improvement from the fact that digital conversions will
    be zero, as opposed to component, which will have two digital to analog conversions.
    I WOULD get a BLU player, you can get one for 68 bucks, diff between that and a DVD
    player is marginal, and a BLU player will also play DVD better than any DVD player
    will, there is an actual improvement in the pic.
    Also, using your new monitor for computer is optimum, once you get used to the larger
    screen you wont understand how you ever lived without it.
    Video cards with HDMI are rather cheap, and thats the way to go, but my first priority
    would be a BLU player, the pic will be better than broadcast, even on a 720p set.
    BTW, on a 32" screen, 720p will be fine, 1080p is always preferable , but at a 32" size
    its hard to tell much diff.
    Again, congrats, and as time goes by you will come to understand why I bugged you
    so much, HD is simply STAR TREK compared to SD, its a completely different world.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
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  16. #16
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Holy crap, I thought this upcoming Saturday was supposed to be Judgment Day!

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Talk about putting pressure on a guy to buy HDTV
    Well, you kinda put that pressure on yourself, since you started more HDTV threads on this board than anyone who actually OWNS a HDTV!

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Radioshack had 32 inch AOC (Envision) 720p on sale for $280 (L32w961) and being on a tight budget, I gave it a try. Being my first HDTV, lets just say I'm blown away.

    Only get local OTA channels and HD ones are really eye candy. I usually don't watch Gulf, but the picture was so green and clear that had to watch it. And SD programs look pretty good also.
    Just wait 'til you calibrate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    DVD player picture thru component look amazing and can't wait to see how bluray will look.
    How many years from now will that take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    The blacks are ink black and I am assuming it have Samsung panel since black level are good, but the viewing angel is not so hot. And of course TV have analog audio output
    Ooookay, now we know what's driving the timing here! Anyway, congrats Smokey ... maybe now we can put the DVD dumpster diving to rest, and focus more on when you'll pony up and get that Blu-ray player!
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  17. #17
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Does that mean will not see any picture improvment if switching from Component to HDMI output on the DVD player?
    As with all things, YMMV. It depends on the internal design of the TV and the DVD/Blu-ray player (some of them use different processing circuits for the analog and digital paths, so the A/D conversion is not the only variable to look out for). Try it with both and see which one you like better. On my parents' older TV, the component video input looks better than the HDMI input. With my TV, the HDMI input is the way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    On my 32-inch LCD with an upsampling DVD player, I use the HDMI to take advantage of the upsampling capability. There's a picture-quality difference, but it can be hard for us to see at the distance where we watch that TV.
    Agreed that on a 32" TV, it can be difficult to see differences with many variables.

    Keep in mind that the upsampling feature can be enabled with a component video output as well. In general, upsampling with DVDs has been way oversold as a feature, since it doesn't add any real resolution to a 480i source signal.

    With any flat panel TV, the source signal has to be upscaled and deinterlaced to the native resolution just so it can properly display in the first place. An upsampling DVD player will simply perform the rescaling and deinterlacing before it gets sent to the TV. If the DVD signal is not rescaled and/or deinterlaced by the player, then the HDTV itself will handle that task.

    So, regardless of whether the DVD player does upsampling or outputs via HDMI, the upsampling will happen at some point.
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  18. #18
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    As with all things, YMMV. It depends on the internal design of the TV and the DVD/Blu-ray player (some of them use different processing circuits for the analog and digital paths, so the A/D conversion is not the only variable to look out for). Try it with both and see which one you like better. On my parents' older TV, the component video input looks better than the HDMI input. With my TV, the HDMI input is the way to go.



    Agreed that on a 32" TV, it can be difficult to see differences with many variables.

    Keep in mind that the upsampling feature can be enabled with a component video output as well. In general, upsampling with DVDs has been way oversold as a feature, since it doesn't add any real resolution to a 480i source signal.

    With any flat panel TV, the source signal has to be upscaled and deinterlaced to the native resolution just so it can properly display in the first place. An upsampling DVD player will simply perform the rescaling and deinterlacing before it gets sent to the TV. If the DVD signal is not rescaled and/or deinterlaced by the player, then the HDTV itself will handle that task.

    So, regardless of whether the DVD player does upsampling or outputs via HDMI, the upsampling will happen at some point.
    Makes sense. What I see that's better with the HDMI connection is somehow sharper...like less visual noise. I thought the component output was prevented from upscaling for copyright reasons...must have dreamed that.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    Makes sense. What I see that's better with the HDMI connection is somehow sharper...like less visual noise. I thought the component output was prevented from upscaling for copyright reasons...must have dreamed that.
    That's content dependent, and you're right that most the copy protection with most DVDs would prevent the upscaled signal from going out via component. They will output a deinterlaced signal regardless.
    Wooch's Home Theater 2.0 (Pics)
    Panasonic VIERA TH-C50FD18 50" 1080p
    Paradigm Reference Studio 40, CC, and 20 v.2
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    Yamaha RX-A1030
    Dual CS5000 (Ortofon OM30 Super)
    Sony UBP-X800
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    Directv HR44 and WVB
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  20. #20
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Thanks everybody

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Well its about dang time. I am near the end of my life, and this schmuck finally lands in the 21st century.
    Blame it on my CRT TV that refused to die

    Now I am stuck with heavy analog CRT TV that I don't think anybody will buy.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    You will see a (very) slight improvement from the fact that digital conversions will be zero, as opposed to component, which will have two digital to analog conversions.
    That is what make me think that HDMI will probably have better picture due to less picture conversions. I tried different DVD settings and outputs, and best quality PQ is component output in progressive mode. BTW, Walmart have LG bluray player back in stock for $80.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wooch
    Just wait 'til you calibrate it.
    Other than adjusting the Backlight at night vs daytime, other picture adjustments seem be right on money with slight variations. I am glad there is no need to do any advance adjustments via service menu as nobody seem to know the hidden codes for AOC brand.
    Last edited by Smokey; 05-16-2011 at 07:19 PM.

  21. #21
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Other than adjusting the Backlight at night vs daytime, other picture adjustments seem be right on money with slight variations. I am glad there is no need to do any advance adjustments via service menu as nobody seem to know the hidden codes for AOC brand.
    Unless those adjustments were done using a calibration disc with a color filter, you don't know what "right on money" actually looks like. Setting a TV so that it's as close as possible to a calibrated reference spec shows you what the TV is supposed to look like. Once that's set, then you can tweak it to your preferences.

    The disadvantage with these off-brands is that there really aren't any service manuals, or vendors for spare parts. Might be better that you don't know how to get into the service menus!
    Wooch's Home Theater 2.0 (Pics)
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    Paradigm Reference Studio 40, CC, and 20 v.2
    Adire Audio Rava (EQ: Behringer Feedback Destroyer DSP1124)
    Yamaha RX-A1030
    Dual CS5000 (Ortofon OM30 Super)
    Sony UBP-X800
    Sony Playstation 3 (MediaLink OS X Server)
    Sony ES SCD-C2000ES
    JVC HR-S3912U
    Directv HR44 and WVB
    Logitech Harmony 700
    iPhone 5s/iPad 3
    Linksys WES610



    The Neverending DVD/BD Collection

    Subwoofer Setup and Parametric EQ Results *Dead Link*

  22. #22
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Smokey]Blame it on my CRT TV that refused to die

    Now I am stuck with heavy analog CRT TV that I don't think anybody will buy.
    Why would anybody buy a horse buggy in 1955?
    I WOULD "donate" it to GOODWILL OR SOMETHING.
    When the hospital I used to work at went to LCD, the guys doing the job had a trailer
    into which they would toss the old CRT monitors. I ASKED what they were going to do
    with them, and they said probably junk them, couldn't give em away

    That is what make me think that HDMI will probably have better picture due to less picture conversions. I tried different DVD settings and outputs, and best quality PQ is component output in progressive mode. BTW, Walmart have LG bluray player back in stock for $80.
    A friend caught them after Christmas and got that player for 65 bucks.
    And of course a monitor will convert any format to its native res, but progressive displays
    tend to handle progressive signals a tad better, except for 1080i, wigh is simply deinterlaced to 1080p(not in your case, tho)

    Other than adjusting the Backlight at night vs daytime, other picture adjustments seem be right on money with slight variations. I am glad there is no need to do any advance adjustments via service menu as nobody seem to know the hidden codes for AOC brand.
    They aren't "hidden", you just need a service manual. AND AOC , while not mainstream,
    is a decent brand.
    Also, you will probably notice what I HAVE, MAINLY that LCD panels are remarkably
    stable, require little tweeking, and usually look good out of the box.
    Its their nature, CRT shoots an electron beam across a vaccum and hits a glass surface lined with phosper. The phosper and electron gun are going to wear, not so with LCD.
    Of course, solid state is always more stable than tubes, crts, etc. Commonplace
    knowledge that most take for granted elsewhere, but is rather controversial on this site.
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  23. #23
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Blame it on my CRT TV that refused to die

    Now I am stuck with heavy analog CRT TV that I don't think anybody will buy.
    And worse than that...I overheard one of the guys working a Goodwill collection center tell a donor they couldn't accept them. Last CRT I had, I listed in the free stuff section of Craigslist and literally gave it away.

  24. #24
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob View Post
    And worse than that...I overheard one of the guys working a Goodwill collection center tell a donor they couldn't accept them. Last CRT I had, I listed in the free stuff section of Craigslist and literally gave it away.
    ABOUT all you can do these days.
    See them on the side of the road all of the time.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
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    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
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  25. #25
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    Now I am stuck with heavy analog CRT TV that I don't think anybody will buy.
    Mine are relegated to guest bedrooms where they will likely last forever. Congrats on the purchase. You really must get a BR player. As for me, I'm receiving two parcels via Fedex today for the HT...

    rw

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