High End Receiver dilema ?

[mazdamanic]

That's ludicrous, ever see a digital mixer?

Electricity and Electronics - ever studied that?

[mixadude]

We don't disagree here...
You do not need alot of space or money to do seperates. You could either get a pre-pro and a five, six, or seven channel amp, or you could buy a pre-pro and three stereo power amps. Neither of these two options take up tremendous amounts of space. You should know that!!

Yeah, I suppose. I still like my new flagship receiver, vintage speakers and servo subs just fine though.

I'm kinda out of the loop in HiFi, I used to sell the stuff over 30 years ago while I was majoring in electronics. Now I do PA and/or TV, as mixer and/or system engineer, either audio or video. That's why I hang around here, to catch up on HiFi, so thanks for your indulgence and informative posts.

[Tarheel_]

man, i wish i knew how to do those fancy quote sections....

not sure why i've been put in a corner with the old AVR at my side, but since i have...here goes...

i may have blinked or something, but when did Outlaw put everyone on their payroll? I never mentioned Outlaw specifically nor have i ever seen an Outlaw in person or on horse. So why is everyone pushing this company so hard. Sure, everyone likes to find a 'steal', but come on guys holster those pistols.

Sure spearates can be easy to setup, but how many people know about separates.They know BB and CC and Tweeter where AVRs rule. The guy is in bama and selection is short for hi-fi.


"You would be very surprised what people can hear, newbie or not. " True, very true.

OK, so you paid $1450 for your setup. Well, my AVR was $1200 list, but I didn't pay that amount....i bought it as a store demo for $550 or $575 (can't remember). So add your two power conditioners, extra cable and do the math. That's quite a difference in price i'd say.


Now that is said, i really don't want to be painted as 'AVR guy'. I'm just trying to stick up for the little component that can. Hey, without the AVR most people would never experience HT or join this kickin board.

anyway, wish we were sitting around a table..i'd buy everyone a round. Cheers!.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

man, i wish i knew how to do those fancy quote sections....

Simple enough man. Put brackets [] on each side of the word quote. At the end of your sentence put [/quote]. The should do the trick.

not sure why i've been put in a corner with the old AVR at my side, but since i have...here goes...

We not treating you like a subwoofer!!

i may have blinked or something, but when did Outlaw put everyone on their payroll? I never mentioned Outlaw specifically nor have i ever seen an Outlaw in person or on horse. So why is everyone pushing this company so hard. Sure, everyone likes to find a 'steal', but come on guys holster those pistols.

I guess because their products are a VERY good value, and are very well built. Where else can you find a pre-pro this fully featured for $1099? Gotta keep my pistol out thought, Nick may be hangin around here.

Sure spearates can be easy to setup, but how many people know about separates.They know BB and CC and Tweeter where AVRs rule. The guy is in bama and selection is short for hi-fi.

Well Tarheel, they'll never learn about them until we mention them. Ebay knows no boudaries, they'll ship just about anywhere. If you don't tell people about this outlet, then nobody will really know. Knowledge is power.

OK, so you paid $1450 for your setup. Well, my AVR was $1200 list, but I didn't pay that amount....i bought it as a store demo for $550 or $575 (can't remember). So add your two power conditioners, extra cable and do the math. That's quite a difference in price i'd say.

Didn't pay for the power conditioners, I rescued them from my station. One of the maintainence engineers at the station I work was going to give them away, I saw them first, and nabbed them. Cables total cost for the entire system was $60. Bought my cable from a co-worker who get high quality cable for cheap. Still, I would believe that there is a performance difference that offsets that cost difference. The point I am making is that going the seperates route does not necessarily have to be expense. Doing a little homework, and patience goes along way.


[quoteNow that is said, i really don't want to be painted as 'AVR guy'. I'm just trying to stick up for the little component that can. Hey, without the AVR most people would never experience HT or join this kickin board.[/quote]

Okay, you point is well taken. I admire you for sticking up for the little avr AVR that could, and did.

anyway, wish we were sitting around a table..i'd buy everyone a round. Cheers!.[/QUOTE]

[Yoda]

All right, I LOVE ALL THE HELP....YOU GUYS ARE FABULOUS !!!

My old man is paying for all this, and he WILL NOT let me buy prime pieces of EBAY. Just has a lack of trust. He doesn't mind reputable online companies. Like I said, I'm from Bama and even though we have agreat college football team, we don't have a lot of choice with high end stuff, like separates. This guys suggested a company called NAD and said it was superior to Integra. Any of you guys able to confirm this?? I was looking at either the T773 or T763 (http://www.nadelectronics.com/av_receivers/index.htm).

What do you guys think....better than Integra?

I would LOVE to get separates; however life has its way of getting in the way. It just seems too idealistic to get separates at the time. The old man has some limitations and I go to stick to them. Plus, I've been burnt before on Ebay.

AGAIN ....THANK YOU ALL

[JonW]

So most of you here seem to be very much in favor of seperates. (Sorry Tarheel.) For the receiver I've been thinking about, the Arcam AVR300 ($2000), I've read where a lot people say it sounds as good as most pre pros. (e.g., if you use the pre outs, etc.) True? If so, then wouldn't this receiver be a pretty obvious choice? You're getting a really good pre pro (supposedly) as well as some power from an internal amp (which can be used until you step up to bigger amps or even just for the rear speakers, etc.). Am I missing something here?

[Yoda]

How does ARCAM compare to the ones I mentioned in my last post (NAD and Integra)?

[N. Abstentia]

So most of you here seem to be very much in favor of seperates. (Sorry Tarheel.) For the receiver I've been thinking about, the Arcam AVR300 ($2000), I've read where a lot people say it sounds as good as most pre pros. (e.g., if you use the pre outs, etc.) True? If so, then wouldn't this receiver be a pretty obvious choice? You're getting a really good pre pro (supposedly) as well as some power from an internal amp (which can be used until you step up to bigger amps or even just for the rear speakers, etc.). Am I missing something here?

You're not missing anything, the only flaw I see with that plan is the money. Why spend $2000 on a receiver then $1000 on an external amp so you can abandon the internal amp? Why not get the $2000 Outlaw combo and get equal sound, more flexibility, and $1000 in your pocket?

[Yoda]

Again, I live in ALABAMA, USA. Where is an authorized dealer that sells Arcam AVR300. I onlt see one in the entire USA on their website??

[JonW]

You're not missing anything, the only flaw I see with that plan is the money. Why spend $2000 on a receiver then $1000 on an external amp so you can abandon the internal amp? Why not get the $2000 Outlaw combo and get equal sound, more flexibility, and $1000 in your pocket?

I see what you're saying. But would the Outlaw combo really sound as good as the Arcam? It's tough to ever get them side by side and do a comparison.

You probably don't need to go buy an amp for the Arcam. I have heard it and it does sound quite good as is.

If we assume, for the moment, that the Outlaw and Arcam do sound the same...
Where the Outlaw combo would be preferable is that when the pre pro becomes obsolete, you still have the amps to use with your next pre pro. For the Arcam, however, you might need a whole new receiver (or make the move to a pre pro + amps).

One way I've been thinking of the Arcam is that it's a pre pro with a decent amp. You might still want to add an amp some day, to help out the front speakers. But the internal amp should be plenty good for the center and rear speakers. So then you're into 2 channel amps, rather than needing many 2 channel amps for fronts, rears, centers or even one 5 or 7 channel amp with less power to the fronts (for a given amount of money).

Ugh... receiver or seperates... I keep going back and forth...

[Yoda]

Quickly again: Again, I live in ALABAMA, USA. Where is an authorized dealer that sells Arcam AVR300. I onlt see one in the entire USA on their website?

ALSO:

Does anyone know how much Arcam FMJ P7 & FMJ V8 would cost. Brand New with warranty?

[N. Abstentia]

I would imagine you'll have to drive to Atlanta or Dallas to find an Arcam dealer, I don't know. I've never seen one myself.

JonW brings up an interesting point about replacing just the preamp when it becomes obsolete instead of having to replace an entire receiver. I don't know about the Arcam receiver, but the Outlaw is upgradeable. Obsolescence will not be a factor for many many many years. The only thing I'd like to see it have is HDMI, but that's so flaky right now I can understand why they avoided it. DVI should be just fine.

[N. Abstentia]

Not sure where you are in AL, Yoda (Degobah, maybe?) but here are all the Arcam dealers within 150 miles of Talladega. Like I said..road trip!

http://www.audiophilesystems.com/Bul...&Categories=32

And prices according to Arcam:
FMJ P7 = $4500
FMJ P8 = $5000

[Yoda]

Well, I'm running the Jamo E770 in the front, E750 in the back, one center in the front and another in the back, with the E& SUB and an old Infinity PSW 12 sub. Would the Arcam AVR 250 or 300 be advised. The 250 fits better in my price range. The speakers are 6 ohm. What do you think?

[N. Abstentia]

Well me personally...I couldn't justify spending $1600 on a reciever that doesn't have either HDMI or DVI inputs..the Arcam has neither. Is that a show stopper? No, not at all. But the minute you get a new DVD player with a DVI or HDMI output you'll wish you had inputs for it, and it would be easy to deal with the loss if you had spent $500..but $1600?

[Yoda]

Well, In my case, I'm doing a DLP front projector. So I will run an HDMI from the dvd player to projector, and Optical cable to receiver. No need for DVI or HDMI.

[N. Abstentia]

Hmm..just keep in mind that since you're bypassing the receiver's video inputs, you'll need to run a seperate line from the receiver to the projector so you can set it up..unless you've got another TV you can hook it to. Composite or s-video will work fine, just wanted to remind you that you will need it!

[Yoda]

Yup, have a 25 footer cable going from the proj. to the receiver. Thanks anyways.

[N. Abstentia]

Cool. Being in the process of installing a projector myself in a new construction I'm running every possible cable I might ever need to the projector. Nothing worse than getting through with sheetrock and paint then realizing you don't have the right cable in the wall

[Yoda]

Which projector? I'm using the Optoma H78DC3. Has a 4000:1 contrast ratio. Let me ask you, is it really hard to mount this thing properly if you know exactly what the throw distance is and are comfortable juggling the projector and mount on a ladder.

What about calibration?

[N. Abstentia]

Shouldn't be too bad if you have a good mount. I have the Optoma H31 with the Cheif RPC mount which is nice. It's got 2 parts, one part goes in the ceiling and one part goes on the projector. The ceiling part is small and easy to work with and once you get it mounted you just slide the entire projector assembly onto it and tighten 3 thumb screws and you're done. It also is fully adjustable once you get it up there so you can add some front/rear tilt, side/side tilt, and yaw. It's hard to get it wrong with this mount!

I haven't gotten to the calibration part yet, just the screen testing phase but it shouldn't be too hard.

[topspeed]

I think the decision to go for separates vs. AVR is a personal decision. It's going to come down to how seriously someone takes this little hobby of ours. Owning both separates and an AVR, I think separates are great for music and an AVR is more than adequate for HT purposes. Sure, a fancy pre/pro could be justified for multi-channel hi-rez, but let's be honest here, there ain't a helluva lot of software in the first place! For the OP, an AVR will make life a lot easier. Coming from 2 channel separates, the first time I looked at the back of an AVR, I clutched my chest screaming, "It's the big one, Elizabeth! I'm comin' baby!!" FWIW, Denon's new 3806 is supposed to have HDMI/DVI switching, although it still lacks balanced outputs (can anybody hear the difference?).

I dunno. It seems like audiophiles are too quick to dismiss AVR's without considering the application.

[JonW]

I dunno. It seems like audiophiles are too quick to dismiss AVR's without considering the application.

Yeah, I'd prefer seperates for the improvement in sound quality over an AVR. But I'm not really willing to pony up $5,000 for the good seperates at this time. If you can get decent seperates for around $2,000 that sound better (or the same) than a good $2,000 AVR like the Arcam, I'd go that way. From my reading, it seems like $2,000 is a bit of a fuzzy range- good AVR's and low end seperates. With little comparisons of the two options to grasp onto. Idunno...

[Lexmark3200]

What bothers me is.....are these $6,000 Denon/Onkyo etc. "flagship" receivers REALLY worth that money? Are they putting out the 170 watts x 7 or whatever they're advertising they are?

[Geoffcin]

What bothers me is.....are these $6,000 Denon/Onkyo etc. "flagship" receivers REALLY worth that money? Are they putting out the 170 watts x 7 or whatever they're advertising they are?

And they usually exceed the specs, as opposed to the lower end units where there's a lot of fudging going on.