Heard/Saw the Marantz AV8003 processor today

[Mr Peabody]

There is a thread recently started about power cables but in short I've had noticeable improvement when upgrading.

[MoltenLava]

Mr Peabody,

I've read your review with much interest. I have a mch music system that was organically grown from a stereo system. I heard much buzz about Integra 9.8 and Marantz, and thought maybe they are worth a try. Integra seems to be more popular, but my personal bias prefers Marantz. I wonder if you have compared your AV8003 with Integra 9.8 before?

It looks like you have a separate stereo system with high end gears. Have you tried AV8003 as a digital processor end and line stage in your stereo system? I'm very interested in the performance of digital section of AV8003 in an audiophile system.

[Mr Peabody]

I have not mixed the AV8003 with my CJ gear. The way my gear is in the stands and cramped working space I tend to limit moving things around to necessity and burning curiosity.

I have not heard an Integra 9.8. They aren't represented in this area.

The AV8003 goes to a Linn power amp and uses Dynaudio Contour t2.5's. I haven't listened to a lot of music through the system yet but what I've heard has been excellent. Including Blu-ray concert video in Tru-HD. I know I gave the AV8003 a lot of grief until I found the problem and cured it but I am impressed with the sound quality. I'll have to try running some CD's through it and come back with some better impressions. I know it may not help with your choice. I think you'd be happy with the AV8003. It's hard to put into words but the tonal quality is inviting or involving, the overall response is good but what probably stands out to me is how well the midrange is. The mids are natural, no strain, and open. Just using the AV8003's internal DAC the sound is smooth and you will notice no etch, glare or other digital negatives. Now some of this could be system dependent. Of course, what started this thread was hearing the Marantz combo driving all Martin Logan speakers. Other than the Marantz power amp having more attack than my Linn the other generalizations still hold true.

[MoltenLava]

Thanks for the reply. I currently have Linn Unidisk SC as the front end and line stage. I listen to a lot of SACD in addition to redbook CD, and I expect the replacement to do well in both redbook and DSD. Most people who own these processors are theater oriented, so it's hard to compare their impression and put it into the perspective of my expectation. I've been looking for someone with interest in music as much as I did, and then I came across your review. You have a very nice two channel system, and I think I can trust your ears. If you have any SACD or DVD Audio, I would love to hear your impression of those, as well as redbook performance against your stereo rig. Thanks again,

[Mr Peabody]

You got me curious so I put a couple CD's in earlier this evening. First, I put in Spies on the Sheffield Labs label. Then Mariah Carey, Diary of Mimi. I used my Samsung BR player for a transport using HDMI PCM into the AV8003. If you've ever heard an Arcam player the sound character was close to that. The sound stage was wide, and had a lot of detail, it may have been my Linn amp but the bottom end could have been more hefty. Overall a very listenable presentation and I preferred it over my prior Primare for music. The music through the AV8003 was effortless, quick and agile but not aggressive. When listening to Mariah Carey, she was center left and the AV8003 did a good job of placing the background singers to the far left as with good CD playback. I'd say separation of detail was a very strong point for the AV8003.

I hate to compare it to my 2-channel system because it's really not apples to apples as they are totally different. I would like to get some long IC's to see how the AV8003 sounds through the MV60's. The most noticeable difference was the CJ gear was fuller with more bottom end but that was a trade off because in comparison the AV8003 dissected things better. Each system seemed to accentuate different parts of the presentation. The AV8003 had a flat frequency response. I noticed this when playing with the T+A, it has 2 output stage filters to choose from, one the manufacturer describes as having a flat frequency response and that is the one the AV8003 sounded closest to. As you'd expect the CJ I preferred overall and came closest to natural tones. The Linn 5125 is perfect for where I need to place it and it does fine for HT, very good midrange, clear, and haven't had a need for power, however, it wouldn't be my first choice for music playback and I suspect with the matching MM8003 or another powerful quality amp the AV8003 would do even better.

When listening to the AV8003 during this time I did not use the sub. I need to go into it and see if that's possible and what other sound fields are available. There's still a lot I have to learn about this baby.

[MoltenLava]

Thanks for the followup. Can you pick a couple of things that you don't like about in the sound? Something that you wish was improved?

[Mr Peabody]

Keep in mind what I hear is the combination of the system not just the preamp. If I had to pick on it, I'd definitely like a heavier bottom end and more growl or grunt. This may be able to be achieved by adding an amp with that nature.

[MoltenLava]

Thanks for the report. Yeah, the lack of bottom end heft could have been caused by impedance mistatch between preamp and the amp, or amp and the speaker. I had a serious problem with impedance mismatch between my Pass X3 and Focal Electra 1037BE. Since then I've gone through a couple other amps, and I happily ended up with Mark Levinson 335. Somehow Linn Unidisk sounded extremely lean with Pass X3. The tonal balance was much better with other amps. I would chalk it up to the rather low impedance curve of the speakers and the ability of the amp to maintain the currents.

The trait that I'm after in my audio system is the transparency. The last thing I want is the veiling of sound that obscures dynamic range and soundstage. It sounds like you didn't notice any of the veiling, and I'm very pleased to hear that you haven't found any in this nature. I have found my Linn front end to provide the best combination of transparency and detail that I heard when it comes to SACD. I'm just content with the reproduction of redbook CD on Unidisk SC. I know it can be done better and I am looking for the equipment for that. It sounds like Marantz AV8003 can be a good contender for my Unidisk SC.

Your review of Marantz AV8003 helped a lot. One thing that still puzzles me is your reaction to the various HDMI cables from the front and to the processor and the audible effect they made in your setup. I'll take your words for it and won't go in that direction any further.

[turbo88888]

Hi Molten Lava
Like you, I am a 2 channel freak until the upgrade bug struck me with the HT! I have the Av8003 and MM8003 and have no hesitation in recommending this combination..I guess they are build for each other!
I have not heard the Integra but if you are really serious in good audio also, the marantz is the way to go.

[Mr Peabody]

You could try adding a DAC for redbook and using an analog input. I have a friend who loves his Levinson DAC.

Seeing the type of equipment you use I presume you have heard the benefit in better cables in general, right? There is a lot of hype on the internet about HDMI cables having no difference and I'm not sure how that PC World test was done but it caused a lot of damage. I find it odd that some one can buy a $12.00 HDMI cable that supposedly works as good as one can but I can't buy a simple USB cable that cheap. The improvement I got was significant. I am just happy that I can now enjoy my AV8003 and if it took $150.00 to take it to that level, it was a deal. I haven't done a lot of HDMI comparisons to see if this type of result is across the board. I assumed it was the better cable. Either way one who wants the best out of his HT system should experiment with a couple brands just to make sure one doesn't do better than the other. My thing is if I was a beginner or didn't already have a high end processor as reference I may not have even noticed the problem I was having. I really feel people are too reliant on the internet hype and what ever their sales person gives them and they could possibly be missing the best part of their gear.

[turbo88888]

Mr Peabody
Just a question regarding the AV8003. Is it normal that one have to turn off players connected via HDMI to restart the process of rebooting the system to get the picture and sound?
When I finish a movie and put in another one, there is problem in starting the picture/sound again in my blue ray machine until I turn it off and on again. This seems a little ***** but I was just wondering if this is a ***** thing with HDMI.?

[Mr Peabody]

That sounds like a HDMI, or should I say HDCP, hand shake issue between your components. Fortunately, I do not have that issue. Which BR player do you have? You might want to check the manufacturer's website of your BR player to see if any firmware updates have been out since you bought it or last updated it. Mine occasionally did that when I first bought it but a firmware update cured the flagging issue.

I browsed this article once I don't know if it will help:
http://www.videsignline.com/howto/198900437

http://bigredball.blogsome.com/2006/...cp-handshakes/

I was trying to find the article that talks about why sometimes equipment have to be recycled, turned on/off, in order to work again.

Ah, this may be it:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdmi1.htm

[turbo88888]

I have the Samsung BDP 1000. This is rather old model now and will be changing to another updated model soon...I was looking at the Panasonic BD 30 ..the 50 is not released in australia as yet...or the samsung 1500. Any suggestions ? Other models? The Marantz is not released here as yet.

[Mr Peabody]

Have you received all the updates for the 1000? I have the Samsung BD-P1200 and after firmware updates, 3 total, it works fine and after adding the AV8003 I have had no issues with hand shakes. Downloading is a pain but Samsung will send you a disc if you call them.

People came down hard on the 1200 because of the issues with it after launch but if you can find one I'd recommend it. Or, their new one that's coming out at around $599.00 USD, I think it's a 2500 or 2550. These both use the Silicon Optics chip for excellent DVD upsampling, if that's of importance to you. The only draw back with the 1200 it has no DTS-MA decoding or bitstream. The newer one I think would. Another piece to keep an eye on is the new Marantz that's coming out with a lower price than the flagship. It's going to be about $749.00 USD. If it keeps the Realto chip set it will also have good upsampling capability. Well, there is another one, Oppo is coming out with a BR player, I don't know anything about it yet but if it performs like their DVD players it could be a contender.

If DVD upsampling is of importance you want to proceed with caution on your next player. Many players like Panasonic and Sony have gone to a single chip for both BR and DVD and DVD upsampling has suffered tremendously. Those mentioned above would be fine and to my knowledge are the only ones that have gone back to providing decent DVD upsampling, I think some of the upper end Denon might as well, look for the Realto chip set. A good place to go to compare features of players is:

www.bluray.com Go under "players", you can click the brand and then the model. I can't remember which link after that, maybe "specifications" but there is a link that gives a total break of everything in the player.

[turbo88888]

Mr Peabody
As usual, you are a great help and so knowledgeable!
WOuld it matter what chip they have for upscaling of DVDs as the 8003 have built in upscaling decoders??
The marantz seems to be the best...the profile 1.1 seems to be the current profile, what abt profile 2 that seems to be present is some other players and not the marantz?

[Mr Peabody]

Uh, good point, I'm not used to having upscaling in my preamp and the AV8003 has a Realto so....... nevermind. To be honest I haven't paid much attention to the profiles because I personally think PIP and online features while trying to watch a movie is useless. Another good thing about the AV8003 we are set for DTS-MA, we just have to make sure we can get either bitstream or decoded from the player. DTS-MA is one thing to look for on the BR player, if it has it and how it delivers it. I've noticed, surprisingly that a few of the newer players do not have DTS-MA. Unless it has been corrected I believe bitstream DTS-MA leaves out menu sound effects and something else, I forgot what. If it's of interest the DTS website has this info.

[turbo88888]

Mr Peabody,
Thanks again for your helpful comments again.
I think I have a slight problem with my centre channel...my kids tell me it sounds a bit muffled especially the dialogues. They were adamant that it was ok before but lately this has been the case. To me, I think it was the same as before, but then I am older and the hearing is prob not as good as the young ones! When you turn on the Dolby VS, and the centre speaker being switched off the dialogues sound brighter coming from the front speakers. I guess this is the way centre speakers are designed not to sound too bright. Is there a way to overcome this? I have tried increasing the treble on the av8003 and also make the centre speaker louder but no great improvement.

[Mr Peabody]

What are you using for center and mains? If they are the same series and brand you shouldn't have any difference. Any adjustments you make like treble or EQ will effect all speakers, I don't know of any way to tweak just one channel. You might try hooking it up to the wires that go to your left or right speaker to see if it sounds the same. If it's the center speaker you may have a blown tweeter or possibly something in the crossover went bad. Where is the center placed? You might try sitting it out if it's in a cabinet to see if it's the placement of the speaker.

[turbo88888]

I have the Mordant shorts - performance 6 for fronts and performance 5 for centres. THe centre is placed exactly mid point above my projector screen - I will try and experiment and see if this will help. Have you also had any problems with the MM8003 going on protector mode when the loud passages come on in a movie .. ie blinking twice every second. The manual tells me either I have it too loud (I dont think I have this louder then what I had before when I initially installed the system), or it is overheating or the speakers are not impedence matched. I have a cooler fan from Antec under my MM all the time. My MS speakers are 6-8 ohms and I don't think I have any 4 ohm speakers.
Let me know if you have similar problems!

[Mr Peabody]

I do not have the MM8003 I'm just using the preamp for now. I'm sure the amp would require plenty of ventilation though. Is your internal speaker volume much above "0"? If so, you might try taking the internal volume down closer to "0" to see if that helps. This situation would be more of a possible distortion problem than over driving the output though but you never know. In contrast, if the internal volume isn't high enough, slightly above or below "0", the power amp may be working too hard because it isn't receiving enough gain from the preamp. This is just a guess at possibilities but I will ask around for you.

[turbo88888]

thanks Mr P.
I will observe the volume controls and keep an eye on it!

[Mr Peabody]

Did you follow what I was saying? Did you do a manual set up on your system when you got it?

[turbo88888]

Mr P
I was looking into my system tonite and I think I found the answer as to why the centre speaker is muffled! The tweeter in my centre speaker has gone off! I cant hear any high frequencies thru it and this is the cause of it! I am returning this to the distributor and it should be under warranty. I bought it about a year ago! Goes to show things do break down at times. Hopefully I am right.
I did an audessy set up initially and lately did a manual set up hoping to improve the centre speaker sound quality but to no avail. I now know the problem!
I do not usually listen past the O setting and usually it is about -10 to -5, so the output level is not all that high!
I will let u know if it plays up again! Thanks for your interest!

[frenchmon]

turb just so you would know, over at A/Vscience.com there are a bunch of people over there who have the new Marantz pre/pro and discuss it daily. They can be another scource for questions ands answers as well.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Ah, a new to me website.