Heard/Saw the Marantz AV8003 processor today

[E-Stat]

Does Marantz really need to provide a panel mounted pictorial diagram as how to use the volume control? That strikes me like needing instructions on how to use a Wet Nap.

rw

[frenchmon]

I did a down and dirty manual set up Friday night because I was anxious to see how it sounded. I really hate to post impressions this soon, I still need to meter and there may be some burn in time, I hope it needs some burn in. Also, my only comparison is to the 31.7 which had an original retail of $4k. What I think so far is the AV8003 is probably a competent preamp for the money and it sure is loaded with features, however, at this point, I am not convinced it is a "giant killer". I'm still hopeful though it can sound better. When I auditioned it the sound quality certainly seemed good. It's not that it's bad in my system but it doesn't seem to have the dynamic range of the 31.7 nor does it image as well, like make the speakers disappear. I measured for the speaker set up but the sound still seems more intimate than with the 31.7. The fact that it sounds like a dynamics issue leads me to believe it may indeed need a bit more play time on it.

On a really positive note I noticed both a video and audio improvement from my Dishnet receiver using the HDMI through the AV8003. The video improvement was a total surprise. I was using a HDMI switcher before but I hadn't noticed any degradation when it was inserted. The audio I was hoping for, I think the Dishnet receiver has an inferior optical output. I had two receivers so far and neither sounded very good from optical out. Using the HDMI I had noticeably better rear effects from HD channels like Sci Fi, TNT and A&E. Those were just the ones showing anything at the time that featured any rear info.

One other consideration I'm thinking about too I was using my 31.7 multichannel analog input with a Blu-ray. This was a much better presentation than I ever got using optical or coaxial inputs. So my comparison isn't exactly A/B on the DAC section.

I'd be surprised if it did not need burn in time to sound better. After all, what is Marantz known for in their 50 plus years of history but great sound.

frenchmon

[turbo88888]

I have the AV8003 and the MM8003 for a few weeks now...only just starting to learn its many features!
It does sound great!
Unfortunately I have the samsung BD1000 which does not give me Dolby true HD and DTS masterHD and 7.1 channels
Any recommendations for a good blue ray player??

[Mr Peabody]

What set up were you using before? The AV8003 is taking a while to learn. I'm not sure how many hours the unit might need for breaking in. the frequency response and sound is pretty good but thus far it does not image or envelop my listening room the way my former processor did.

There is supposed to be a new Samsung model out that will retail around $700.00 that I would recommend. It will have all the latest encoding as well as going back to using the Silicon Optix chip for standard DVD upsampling as the BD-P1200 did which got rave reviews for it's DVD playback, and, of course, no fault with the BR playback. To my knowledge this will be the only player under $2k to offer decent standard DVD playback if that's of any importance to you. You could go for the total package and add the BD-8002, what's another $2k It, and Denon's top of the line players, are using the Realto chip set.

[turbo88888]

I had a sony DA50ES that suited me fine until HDMI came along! My speaker set up are the mordaunt shorts performance series.
The Marantz certainly have good audio performance but I guess this will improve with time.
I also have a Toshiba XE1 which I bought before the demise of HD DVD and also bought heaps of HD DVDs cheaply! The unit has True HD and DTS master capability and I am very happy with the unit so far.
I guess my next blue ray would be the Panasonic BD50 or the Pioneer LX70 or even the Marantz Blue ray player.
Residing in Australia is not entirely satisfactory as we get the models later then you and also they are more expensive!!

[Mr Peabody]

I don't know, you got the Marantz about the same time. The MM8003 is a nice amp and the combo is hard to beat for the price.

[esmurrell]

I have had my AV8003 MM8003 combo for a couple of weeks now. It replaced an NAD S170i, S250 combo. From my perspective, the Marantz pair had large shoes to fill as I enjoyed the huge soundstage the NAD pair was able to generate. I can say with all honesty that the Marantz pair is up to the task. One of the biggest concerns I have with this processor is that it's the first I've had to read the manual before understanding how to properly operate it. Especially with the remote. In any event, I'm fully up to speed now and couldn't be more pleased. Most of my enjoyment is centered around music and I'm very happy. I listen to many SACD's and they sound glorious through this system. When doing a head to head comparison against the likes of the NAD pair, a Primare combo or the like you will find the audio portion is in the same ballpark but it will more than likely not be a no-brainer. I purchased the set because I wanted access to the HD audio decoding and also got a simplified cabling plan as an added bonus. I'm happy with the overall sound and watching HD movies is a real treat.

System:

AV8003 Pre-processor
MM8003 Multi-channel amp
DV9600 Universal player

Toshiba HD-A35 HDDVD (I know the format is dead but the player works great)
Motorola 2-tuner HD Cable receiver
Jamo speakers
Mitsubishi 55" TV (old style big screen)
RGPC 600 S - Power conditioner (Richard Gray)

Kimber PBJ interconnects

[turbo88888]

What Jamo speakers do you have??

[Mr Peabody]

The AV8003 may be in NAD's league, and it could be there is something I still need to find to tweak or set on the AV8003 but from some one who previously had Primare, the 8003 is NOT in Primare's league, nor is NAD. I have the same set up, amp/speakers, and just swapped out the Primare with the Marantz, so it's a pretty good comparison. The AV8003 is just HT for me though and I like the updated features so I plan to keep it. As I stated before the AV8003 is a great preamp in it's price range but beyond that, it is not a "giant killer". There is a very noticeable gap between the AV8003 and the 31.7 in resolution and imaging. Enough that it would be easy for most to hear the difference. Coming from a Sony the AV8003 I have no doubt is an upgrade. Especially with getting the matching amp. The same could be said for anyone using maybe a Rotel, Adcom or similar gear. It's been a while since I've heard the Anthem AVM but I have my doubts the AV8003 is that good. Actually, I probably would consider taking the AV8003 back if I thought they would let me and not have to lose money, like a restocking fee or something. It really was more of a step back in sound from the Primare than I expected.

To keep things in perspective the Primare 31.7 had a retail of $1,500.00 more than the Marantz and the Marantz has, what, 10 times the features, so it isn't nothing to be ashamed of that the Primare sounds better. It should, people better get something for $4k. To get comparible sound of the Primare with the features of the AV8003 will be out of most of our price ranges for sure.

The 31.7 was a great deal more open and had the capability to make the speakers disappear. The AV8003 has not been able to do this. When I watch movies with sword fights using the Primare the clash really sounds like steel hitting steel with the impact and jolt to it. Through the Marantz swords are merely a sound effect. Things like water sounds had more realism through the Primare. Through the Primare birds and other ambient sounds seem to come from no whare, with the Marantz they are localized to one speaker location or the other. It's interesting on the Marantz it seems to put the music of a sound track slightly behind the dialog or center action which I like. The Primare kept things more even along the sound stage and some times dialog became more difficult to hear in busy scenes. The 31.7 was much more capable of letting you hear the separation between the instruments though, it was almost like watching a movie in the middle of a concert, the music to the sound tracks was almost, too good. A lot of this may not make much sense unless you've heard very good preamps before and have that reference point.

[Face]

I guess I'll have to wait a little bit longer to replace my Mac, thanks for the info all!

[frenchmon]

The AV8003 may be in NAD's league, and it could be there is something I still need to find to tweak or set on the AV8003 but from some one who previously had Primare, the 8003 is NOT in Primare's league, nor is NAD. I have the same set up, amp/speakers, and just swapped out the Primare with the Marantz, so it's a pretty good comparison. The AV8003 is just HT for me though and I like the updated features so I plan to keep it. As I stated before the AV8003 is a great preamp in it's price range but beyond that, it is not a "giant killer". There is a very noticeable gap between the AV8003 and the 31.7 in resolution and imaging. Enough that it would be easy for most to hear the difference. Coming from a Sony the AV8003 I have no doubt is an upgrade. Especially with getting the matching amp. The same could be said for anyone using maybe a Rotel, Adcom or similar gear. It's been a while since I've heard the Anthem AVM but I have my doubts the AV8003 is that good. Actually, I probably would consider taking the AV8003 back if I thought they would let me and not have to lose money, like a restocking fee or something. It really was more of a step back in sound from the Primare than I expected.

To keep things in perspective the Primare 31.7 had a retail of $1,500.00 more than the Marantz and the Marantz has, what, 10 times the features, so it isn't nothing to be ashamed of that the Primare sounds better. It should, people better get something for $4k. To get comparible sound of the Primare with the features of the AV8003 will be out of most of our price ranges for sure.

The 31.7 was a great deal more open and had the capability to make the speakers disappear. The AV8003 has not been able to do this. When I watch movies with sword fights using the Primare the clash really sounds like steel hitting steel with the impact and jolt to it. Through the Marantz swords are merely a sound effect. Things like water sounds had more realism through the Primare. Through the Primare birds and other ambient sounds seem to come from no whare, with the Marantz they are localized to one speaker location or the other. It's interesting on the Marantz it seems to put the music of a sound track slightly behind the dialog or center action which I like. The Primare kept things more even along the sound stage and some times dialog became more difficult to hear in busy scenes. The 31.7 was much more capable of letting you hear the separation between the instruments though, it was almost like watching a movie in the middle of a concert, the music to the sound tracks was almost, too good. A lot of this may not make much sense unless you've heard very good preamps before and have that reference point.

Wow MrPeabody. I've been keeping up with the reviews of this thing on other forums and yours by far is totally different from any I have heard. I've read the reviews of those who have the Anthem and Marantz and they say the Marantz performs better than the Anthem. Your review is just not what others have been saying. Aside from the usually hand-shaking problems others have been complaining about, the only other complaint was that there was no post processing, but other than that, they say this thing is unbelieveable.

Here is a portion of what some are saying.

adidino
Senior Member


Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 402 Quick poll..


Who on this thread went from a higher end prepro such as Krell, Anthem D1/D2, Proceed, Lexicon, etc.. to the Marantz? and how do you feel about it now since most of you, I'm assuming have had it for a while.
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Bluray Player Audio Comparison Chart Thread

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Today, 10:47 AM #1514 | Link
MKtheater
AVS Special Member


Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: central NY
Posts: 2,021 I did. I have owned many higher end processors with the highest being the Meridian 861. I like the Marantz. The best for movies so far.
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frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon was there a link to that thread? I can't believe anyone would be happy coming from a Krell or a D1 and going to the Marantz. Of course, there's a guy on here who claims he went from Levinson separates to a Panasonic receiver and preferred the receiver. What do you mean by post processing? That post would be relevant because only those coming from higher end gear to Marantz would have an idea or perspective of the difference. I can't understand why my results are different. The Dyn's are very revealing though and I do tend to be a critical listener. I also post it as I see it, or hear it, for better or worse.

Any idea what most are using for HDMI cable with the AV8003? I'm not using a "high end" name brand and I wonder if that would make a big difference. It was as good as my Tributaries HDMI for video so I didn't think audio would be off either. I may try that to see what happens if anything. There's so much conflicting info out there about HDMI it's hard to know which way to turn. The only way is to try it yourself.

If anyone has any suggestions as to why mine isn't impressing me let me know. I am using all Transparent IC's and speaker connects. I'm using just a 1 meter Belkin HDMI from BR player to preamp and Tributaries from satelite receiver to preamp. The Tributaries is 2 meter to reach the receiver. I set the unit up manually which most prefer to do anyway. I've been waiting for cooler weather to play with the Audyssey so I can turn the air off. The only difference in my set up is the preamp and I'm using HDMI from source to preamp where I was using multichannel analog on the Primare because it didn't provide HDMI.

[Mr Peabody]

As I sit down with my crow sandwich........

First, let me thank everyone who chimed in with their own experience with the AV8003 and Frenchmon for your input. I started this thread after hearing the AV8003 and i thought it did sound very good in the sound room. This coupled with your further input got me to doing some thinking on my system. I was always wondering how the AV8003 could be so far off and my disappointment was giving me grief. So I got busy today and made some calls, tried some things.

As stated above in another post, my set up didn't have much difference from using the Primare, only the connections, up to this point I went through the Marantz I thought pretty good, so it left the connections. I called the store where I bought it and one guy wasn't much help, they're waiting to pick up some training from CEDIA. Talked to another guy about HDMI and he told me there is a difference in the cable quality and offered to loan me one to try. I thought, "what did you expect him to say". The problem was real though and I had nothing to lose. I picked up a Tributaries Series 7 HDMI cable, and borrowed his SPL meter. And away I went.

Guys, no matter what you read, or from who, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN HDMI CABLES. I was not using a $10.00 cable, I had a $40.00 Belkin which said 1.3 compliant. After reading CRAP on the internet about " it's digital either it would work or not" and seeing ridiculous cheap HDMI cables I thought 1.3 and $40.00 would have enough bandwidth. I put the Tributaries in and a Blu-ray disc I watched just last night. I listened to it again, certain scenes before switching cables. The improvement was obvious though, it opened the sound up. I mean most of everything that was making me unhappy went away, the music bloomed out and away from the speakers, the water sounded more natural, the birds and animal sounds were out into the room again, I'm really excited. The Series 7 will cost me a $150.00 and I am happy to take it to them. I actually brought home 2 cables one to go between preamp and BR, the other between pre and TV. I only tried the one between the BR and pre but I already noticed an improvement in picture quality. I can't wait the get the second one in, I expect the video to blow me away. The picture was already a bit sharper with more detail, especially in dark scenes and very bright scenes. Very bright scenes had more color where things were easier to see. I've got high end cables throughout my audio system, I don't know what made me think I could skimp with HDMI.
http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/dec0...es/perfito.htm

For the very first time I put a meter to my system, any system. I have to admit I was not as close as I thought by ear. My center channel which is sitting lower than my mains needed a 2 dB bump and my rears needed almost that. After adjustment the rears sounded alright during the movie but seemed a bit loud on a HD music video channel. I don't like the rears to be overly loud but I figure the meter don't lie, so it must be either a engineering problem or the station. The sub was too loud but I knew that, I was just waiting to get a meter.

I'm still not ready to take the belt from the Primare and give to the Marantz but the Marantz is now making it a much closer call. More importantly the Marantz is good enough to satisfy, ME, now. After all isn't that the goal

In conclusion, anyone who spends the money for HD gear and don't at least try quality cables for themselves is a FOOL because they will never get there money's worth out of that HD equipment. Take it from one who has learned there lesson.

[Edan]

I'm new to these forums but I have been reading this thread for the last few weeks now in anticipation of purchasing the Marantz combo. I have been particularly interesting in following Mr Peabody's feedback, especially after being initially dissapointed with the sound quality. I am happy to hear that a large proportion of the sound quality problems were related to cables. I too have witnessed the transformation that good quality interconnect can provide but have also not been certain as to how this affects HDMI - thanks for this feedback - it is critical to know.

I just received a trial Marantz AV8003 & MM8003. I previously had a Rotel 1068 pre-processor & 1075 amplifier. I am now wanting to make the switch up to HDMI due to HD broadcasts being launched in South Africa a few weeks ago.

Firstly, Mr Peabody, if you can do an Audyssey set up I would highly recommend it, it made a significant difference to sound quality. It will take around 10 minutes (or less if you don't do all six listening positions). I used this purely for EQ settings and then I changed some of my speaker settings such as distance, output levels and size. I found Audyssey incredible for EQ settings but didn't like what it did for the rest.

My first impressions were mixed but it's taken a while to tweak and get right. What truly stunned me is how it brought, what I thought were previously poor quality sound sources, to life; these sources being satellite broadcasts and PS3 MP3 playback. I never ever thought I'd use the PS3 for music, especially using it's optical digital out in the past. MP3 playback thru HDMI and the new combo is now incredible, and SACD playback thru the PS3 is surprisingly good. (I was not able to get mutli-channel SACD playback previously with the Marantz SA15 SACD player as it only supports stereo - a fine player though.)

I was initially expecting more of an improvement with stereo playback but am now happy with it. I think it took a while for my ear to adjust to the additional detail coming thru. It also brings otherwise dull CD recordings to life. (Could have been related to my room acoustics and Auddysey doing it's thing.) I was previously very happy with stereo playback with Rotel equipment and Marantz SACD player but only on a sub-set of disks.

No doubt HD blu-ray sound is excellent; tight and solid. Don't have that many disks to demo but will fix that over time.

If I had to rate the new combo over my previous Rotel gear out of 10:

CD/SACD Playback - Rotel: 8; Marantz: 9.5
Satellite Broadcasts (both stereo and DD5.1) - Rotel: 6; Marantz: 9.5
PS3 MP3 Audio - Rotel: 4; Marantz 9
Blu-Ray - Rotel (only compressed 5.1 available) 6; Marantz 9

One gripe is the remote control, which, while very advanced, does not appear to have direct buttons to change the source. You need to press a sequence of 3 buttons to change the source. (Possibly this can be changed via programmed - I'll work on this in time.) One other grip is that it's not descriptive enough on input streams, e.g. I would like to know what resolution PCM it is receiving.

Mr Peabody, if you do have a chance to set up the Auddysey EQ let us know what you think.

Thanks all for your posts, it's been fascinating to read.

[turbo88888]

Mr Peabody..
Thanks for your thread! I was somewhat worried that you did not like the Marantz...all because of a HDMI cord! I use the Kordz HDMI cables and they are good.
I would have thought Belkin products are quite respectable and this goes to show.
Have you come to terms with all the features of the AV8003?? I mean the surround sound modes - the mind boggles!

[turbo88888]

Edan
Glad you like your Marantz too. What speakers do u use for ur HT? I think they are important for any sort of decent HT setup.

[Mr Peabody]

Eden, many people who post seem to go back to the manual settings after trying the Audyssey but I definitely plan to try it for myself.

Has anyone tried the THX EQ to see what that is about?

There are still a lot of features I haven't tinkered with yet. I did play with the HD radio. I like the way it scans to the normal station and then to each HD station that belongs to that frequency before going to the next frequency with a station. I was afraid one would have to switch to those HD stations or something. The remote is fairly complex to learn. It would have been nice if Marantz gave a list of button commands like on Windows, like HOME+1 = DVD, HOME + AMP + 007 TUNER. That way we wouldn't have to go back to the manual for things as much. Maybe we will just learn the things we do the most on it though. I'm not sure if I do it right but it works, I only hit two buttons to change source, "home" + what ever number the input is. The sequence is a bit more to set up the tuner but still two to get to it. I feel for those planning to network or dual zone, they get to have even more fun. What would also be cool if manufacturers, especially of complex equipment like the AV8003, would put the instructions on DVD.

[frenchmon]

Hi Mr Peabody.

I'm happy to hear that your system sounds better.:

The Integra Pre/Pro has post processing. this is where you have a 5.1 set up but the pre/pro will still process 7.1 sound if the disc is 7.1 Many of the guys where upset that for the price they paid for the Marantz pre/pro, it would not post process.

I think you may benifit by going over to the A/V science forum where this thing is being discussed.

And yes the hand shake with HDMI cables have been discussed. But you got off good, you still had some sound with your old cables...there where a few guys over there who got no sound at all until they spent money on good cables.

One guy had to send his Marantz back to get another one.When he called Marantz, they told him it was the hand shake, but because he had used the same cables in his previous system, he said no and demanded another Marantz. So after the other Marantz came, he had the same problem and got rid of the Marantz, thinking they where crap. So another guy comes along with the same problem, and this same guy tells him its not the cable and that he had two different units that where crap and that he got rid of it. So the new guy goes out and spends good money on differnt cables and got his Marantz up and performing great. Most of the guys can't believe the instruction book that came with this thing. But for the most part, they think this thing is great. Heres the thread where I got that quote. You may want to go over if you got questions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14557165



frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

I think you gave me that link before. Isn't this the one where the link starts before the AV8003 is available and goes until people started buying them and posting reviews and experiences?

I used the Series 7 from preamp to TV today and the picture was amazing. I think my lesson with HDMI is worth another thread in the "cable" forum. From this point on I'm totally sold on using good quality cables.

I also found that my rears were off using the meter. I have a high back sofa and was putting the meter like in front of me, high, but apparently not high enough. I kept thinking the rears are just too loud. So I stood behind the sofa and placed the meter more where my head would be and sure enough, too loud. So in the end they were set closer to where I had them by ear. I don't know if many people notice but the rear volume is critical. Too low, you lose your effect, too loud, throws everything off. What made me use the meter again was putting in the Legends of Jazz BR disc. I kept hearing too much drums and other things in the rear that weren't there before. That sound should be low enough just to create ambience for the most part. I am so shocked that a cable could make such a dramatic difference in both video and audio. I am thrilled with my set up now.

I'm not proud of this but I watched the Scorpion King 2 earlier and the AV8003 even passes the sword test now.

[Edan]

turbo88888: I use B&W XT4 and XTC front-channels and B&W PV1 sub . For rear I have the B&W CCM-80 ceiling mounted speakers. I am however not happy with surround performance (not due to processor but due to room configuration - no space for wall mouted surrounds and ceiling speakers just sound too high).

Familiar with the B&W XT range? Do you think these would do the Marantz equipment justice? I am happy with their performance. In time though, with the additional channels available on the MM8003 I could bi-amp a higher spec'ed speaker.

Mr Peabody: Thanks for the tip on remote; to press the numeric button directly to change source, much easier.

If I may, I would like to ask general advice regarding cabling, specifically related to interconnects between AV8003 and MM8003. I currently have AudioQuest King Cobra RCA interconnects (1m run). Do you think it would be worthwhile upgrading these to balanced interconnects? I'm hearing differing views on the actual impact this will have on sound quality. (Also, if anyone know's the AudioQuest range, would you recommend going for a higher spec-ed cable?)

[Mr Peabody]

I personally think the Audioquest are adequate. I also doubt if there would be any significant difference using XLR's unless the Marantz gear was truely balanced and I don't think it is. Or, it could be beneficial if you had a long distance between amp and preamp. I hate giving this answer but it's the truth, the only way to know if you can improve on the King Cobra is to try a step up to see if a difference and if it's worth the extra expense.

[frenchmon]

I think you gave me that link before. Isn't this the one where the link starts before the AV8003 is available and goes until people started buying them and posting reviews and experiences?

I used the Series 7 from preamp to TV today and the picture was amazing. I think my lesson with HDMI is worth another thread in the "cable" forum. From this point on I'm totally sold on using good quality cables.

I also found that my rears were off using the meter. I have a high back sofa and was putting the meter like in front of me, high, but apparently not high enough. I kept thinking the rears are just too loud. So I stood behind the sofa and placed the meter more where my head would be and sure enough, too loud. So in the end they were set closer to where I had them by ear. I don't know if many people notice but the rear volume is critical. Too low, you lose your effect, too loud, throws everything off. What made me use the meter again was putting in the Legends of Jazz BR disc. I kept hearing too much drums and other things in the rear that weren't there before. That sound should be low enough just to create ambience for the most part. I am so shocked that a cable could make such a dramatic difference in both video and audio. I am thrilled with my set up now.

I'm not proud of this but I watched the Scorpion King 2 earlier and the AV8003 even passes the sword test now.

Hi Mr.Peabody.

Yes its the same link. I'm happy that you are having fun with your system. Now that I think about it, your experience with the Marantz seems to be in line with most every one who has owned it. At first they are excited about it when they ordered it, then they are less happy about the performance of it when they get it, then after some tinkering, they are thrilled about. I will keep in mnd what you said about the cables.


frenchmon

[turbo88888]

Edan
Not familiar with the B&W range that you have...but I guess it should sound good if the other models are any indication. I have the Mordaunt Short performance series and they are really good with very nice and clear mids - esp for dialogues.
I personally use Balanced cables to couple the AV and the MM and have no problems with it. The cables are from Kordz and of very high quality www.clink.com.au. I think if everything being equal, balanced cables are the way to go!

[Edan]

Thanks for your input Mr Peabody and turbo8888. My AV installer is swapping out my RCA's for balanced cables at a minimal charge so I might as well go for it. Speaking of which (and I know I should probably post this question in a specific forum), anyone believe in upgrading power cables? Make any tangible difference to sound?

I see the AV8003 firmware can be updated directly via the Internet via the network interface. I'm not sure if this update just affects the networking portion of the AV or if full-on firmware updates can be uploaded in this fashion (e.g. to support new functionality such as Auddysey EQ over bitstream). Anyone have any more info on this and/or previous experience with regard to how actively Marantz keeps their firmware up-to-date?

My AV/MM combo should be arriving this evening – holding thumbs.

[turbo88888]

Edan
I use a power conditioner that gives me a constant voltage output even though the line voltage fluctuates wildly +/- 10%! The Thor PS10
It also has a surge protector and this is the web site for it http://www.thortechnologies.com.au/d...p?V_DOC_ID=792
I live in Australia and this is an australian product but I guess there may be similar products in your country.