Harman Kardon DVD31 vs. Marantz DV4500

[hershon]

Your probably right but I emailed the guy who wrote it and hope he responds back for clarification on this and the fiber optics question. I'm going to spend tommorow on that web site as it looks like a great site. Thanks.

[anamorphic96]

May 16, 2005

I have the Harman Kardon DVD 31 DVD/CD player that you reviewed, and I love it. I bought this unit mainly for its CD sound. I play the HK, which I got for $250 online, by connecting it with a fiber-optic cable to my Denon 3801 receiver, which is connected to my six Orb Audio speakers and subwoofer, which are the best speakers and subwoofer I've heard.

The reason I'm writing you is that I read your excellent and very well-written review of the Harman Kardon DVD 31. I have one question that hopefully will resolve a major argument I am having with people on an online forum. Q: Did you listen to CDs via a fiber-optic connection or the analog outputs?

The reason I'm asking is that my sound is so much better with the fiber-optic cable than an analog outs, but people on the board keep maintaining that the sound of a $35 DVD player will sound the same as a $10,000 DVD player, ad infinitum, when connected by fiber-optic cable because it's just reading ones and zeroes. I maintain this is nonsense, and I am using the sound of my HK DVD 31 as proof.

Phil Hershon

A: By using a fiber-optic digital cable and connecting the DVD 31 directly to your Denon receiver, you are actually bypassing the DVD 31's analog stage and using the player as a transport. When using any player as a transport, you are relying on the digital-to-analog conversion to be done somewhere else. In your case, it's happening in the Denon receiver, with the digital stream being passed along by the fiber-optic cable. As for this sounding better than the DVD 31's own analog stage, that's quite possible. Denon is well-known for making some accomplished digital gear.

As for your next question, about whether a $35 DVD player will sound as good as a $10,000 one in the configuration that you're talking about, this topic has actually been batted around audiophile circles for years. On the one hand are the people who say that bits are bits and any transport will perform as well as another as long as it's operating properly. Others, however, find profound differences.

As for the bit-and-bits crowd, the argument falls apart when you compare transports and find that not all sound the same. There's more to it than just saying all the ones and zeroes transfer the same. That logic may work for computer hard drives, which aren't as time sensitive as CD playback, but there's more to it when you're trying to reproduce topnotch sound. I've done the experiment many times; hence, I don't use a $35 DVD player as a transport. On the other hand, you don't have to spend exorbitant amounts of money to get fine performance from a transport.

What you have going appears to satisfy you, and that's what's important. What's also important is that you don't just believe what others say. Some people get blinded by the world of digital and think everything sounds the same when, in fact, the discrepancies between pieces of digital gear are just as great as those between analog products.

...Doug Schneider

He at least admits there could be differences in transports. Which could account for the differences you hearing in the HK. Maybe the HK is doing something subtley different in it's digital output.

[N. Abstentia]

May 16, 2005

He at least admits there could be differences in transports. Which could account for the differences you hearing in the HK. Maybe the HK is doing something subtley different in it's digital output.

I seriously doubt it. Keep in mind that the innards of that player are manufactured by Company X, who then sends them to 20-25 other companies who put their brand name on them. You'd probably be surprised at how many players on the market are the exact same thing as the H/K once you pop the lid.

I'm not saying that transports can't be different, but not in this price range.

[shokhead]

And you know this for sure how about the HK's transport?

[N. Abstentia]

HK does NOT make every part in their DVD players themselves. It's a budget line.

There's probably 1-2 companies who make the transports for all DVD players that exist. Another one makes optical pickups. One more makes power supplies. How many actual companies there are I have no idea.

I remember going to a 'boutique' audio shop a while back and under a glass display they had a $99 Toshiba DVD player and a $399 Denon...both with the lids off. Guess what? Identical innards. I actually found that very odd, as I'm sure they could make more money off the Denon.

[shokhead]

HK does NOT make every part in their DVD players themselves. It's a budget line.

There's probably 1-2 companies who make the transports for all DVD players that exist. Another one makes optical pickups. One more makes power supplies. How many actual companies there are I have no idea.

I remember going to a 'boutique' audio shop a while back and under a glass display they had a $99 Toshiba DVD player and a $399 Denon...both with the lids off. Guess what? Identical innards. I actually found that very odd, as I'm sure they could make more money off the Denon.

I'm not questioning you{well maybe} but when you use probably and i have no idea,then maybe we are not sure? You consider HK a budget line,i dont. Is that difference from your budget or mine?

[shokhead]

I'd like to see how others place brands. For me i put HK and Marantz a click infront of in no order,Denon,Yamaha,Sony,Pioneer,Onkyo as far as Receivers and DVD players and a click below those JVC and Kenwood and i'm not saying those are crap but there mid to low end isnt as good as the others mid to low end and i might have this all screwed up but its only imo.

[anamorphic96]

I seriously doubt it. Keep in mind that the innards of that player are manufactured by Company X, who then sends them to 20-25 other companies who put their brand name on them. You'd probably be surprised at how many players on the market are the exact same thing as the H/K once you pop the lid.

I'm not saying that transports can't be different, but not in this price range.

You never know. I have seen and heard stranger things.

Subtle things can sometimes change things in the end.