The Good Guys Worst Chain Store Ever (At least LA Woodland Hills Store)

[hershon]

Thought I'd just share my wonderful experience at the Good Guys with you. I will never ever go to this store again unless they have something I know I need beforehand at the cheapest price, I don't know if this is typical of all the Good Guys Stores, if it is, I don't know how they stay in business, but I went to the store in Los Angeles- Woodland Hills today with the intent on checking on their Denon receivers. I called the store ahead of time, and while they had the model I wanted, it wasn't hooked up on the floor, but instead had the next highest price model hooked up. The person I spoke to on the phone stated there would not be much difference in the sound quality of the cheaper one I was interested in and the more expensive model that was hooked up. Wrong, but that's not why I'm angry. I got to the store and had to look around to get help and the guy who helped me out was a total brain dead idiot who knew less about his product than I did. He then couldn't even get the power to go on and after about 10 minutes of standing around while this guy couldn't even turn the system on, I lost my cool & as a result got help. It seems like in all of these places, unless you creaste a scene and act like a maniac and azzhole no one will help you out Anyway, the supervisor got it turned on in about 5 seconds, but the trouble was, and I don't know how they can demonstrate any stereo product to anyone with an IQ over 2020, the set up was in the "middle" of their floor & sounded like an airplane runaway and their systems are connected to crappy speakers that are built inside their walls. As the sound therefore sounded crappy, I suggested they
let me have a pair of headphones to get a better idea of the sound. The salesman said they had no headphones on the floor to listen to any system. Needless to say I walked out and that place will never ever get my business again. I don't get it..

[paul_pci]

Trust me, that Good Guys is far better than the one in Northridge. But anyways, that's where I got my receiver, primarily because it was such an incredible financial deal, not because I went in there to listen and ask questions. See, I figure that is already a lost cause. If I have real audio gear questions, I'll come here or go to a high end, independent store. I'll go to GG, BB, CC when I know what I want and don't have any substantial questions. I don't get frustrated because I don't expect much from these guys. For instance, take that Yamaha universal player I mentioned in the other thread. If I go there to buy it's because I've aleady made my decision. If I want to hear or see its performance, I might go elsewhere.

[sc03979]

I agree with paul.I don't expect much from big retail chain stores be it wal mart, best buy, good guys, etc. You just can't expect much from people making a poor wage. I worked for a hardware store, I knew the basics but I couldn't go in depth on alot of things.

I do my own research and if a salesman at a smaller store helps me out with some actual good info I don't mind spending a little extra money to keep them in business and for helping me out.

[hershon]

It's not just the idiots working at Good Guys, its the fact that their equipment the way it is set up is impossible even to get a ballpark idea of how their audio systems play. Having to hear their stuff played through crappy generic built inside their wall speakers on the middle of a sales isle which makes any sound no matter how good, obscured by their airplane runway accoustics is inexcusable and then to top it off, when I did these morons a favor and offered to hear their systems via headphones, they had none in their million dollar store to connect. What gets me about stores like this and Tower Records, etc., is that unless you definately know what you want to buy, no one with half a brain, will shop there because these stores won't pay for decent help and a decent showcase for their systems-
it doesn't dawn on the morons who own these places, that they'd do better business and get higher revenue by hiring decent staff at good wages, etc.

I agree with paul.I don't expect much from big retail chain stores be it wal mart, best buy, good guys, etc. You just can't expect much from people making a poor wage. I worked for a hardware store, I knew the basics but I couldn't go in depth on alot of things.

I do my own research and if a salesman at a smaller store helps me out with some actual good info I don't mind spending a little extra money to keep them in business and for helping me out.

[drseid]

I agree with the other two posters... If you want super discount prices (definitely no crime in that) then the chain stores are a great option for *just* buying the product. Just about anything more than just buying from these stores (a meaningful audition, questions, etc.) should not really be expected at their price points.

If you buy from a high-end boutique, then you most likely will pay a higher price (although not always), but they will be much more prepared to give you useful answers to your questions, and a more properly setup demo on better speakers. That is what some of the extra money you pay buys you...

As for the headphones comment... I admit that not having a single pair of headphones in a Good Guys is rather comical, but it would not have done you much good anyway. You need to test the power amp section in the receiver to get a handle on its sound quality (unless you are just using it as a pre/pro), and the headphone op amp is not going to give you any idea of what the receiver sounds like... So ultimately, you would not have received any meaningful result anyway.

---Dave

[shokhead]

GG is better then CC or BB by far. None is a first choice for A/V equipment.

[Woochifer]

Thought I'd just share my wonderful experience at the Good Guys with you. I will never ever go to this store again unless they have something I know I need beforehand at the cheapest price, I don't know if this is typical of all the Good Guys Stores, if it is, I don't know how they stay in business, but I went to the store in Los Angeles- Woodland Hills today with the intent on checking on their Denon receivers. I called the store ahead of time, and while they had the model I wanted, it wasn't hooked up on the floor, but instead had the next highest price model hooked up. The person I spoke to on the phone stated there would not be much difference in the sound quality of the cheaper one I was interested in and the more expensive model that was hooked up. Wrong, but that's not why I'm angry. I got to the store and had to look around to get help and the guy who helped me out was a total brain dead idiot who knew less about his product than I did. He then couldn't even get the power to go on and after about 10 minutes of standing around while this guy couldn't even turn the system on, I lost my cool & as a result got help. It seems like in all of these places, unless you creaste a scene and act like a maniac and azzhole no one will help you out Anyway, the supervisor got it turned on in about 5 seconds, but the trouble was, and I don't know how they can demonstrate any stereo product to anyone with an IQ over 2020, the set up was in the "middle" of their floor & sounded like an airplane runaway and their systems are connected to crappy speakers that are built inside their walls. As the sound therefore sounded crappy, I suggested they
let me have a pair of headphones to get a better idea of the sound. The salesman said they had no headphones on the floor to listen to any system. Needless to say I walked out and that place will never ever get my business again. I don't get it..

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. What are you expecting to find out by having the receiver hooked up? The sound quality differences are typically subtle at best, and don't really come out until you push the receiver to a fairly high level. You won't find out much by playing them at the store. With some of the questions that you've been asking lately and the assortment of purchases that you've made, I think rather than spending more time in audio stores, I think you need to spend less time looking for new purchases to make, and more time at home getting to know your system and setting it up so that you're getting optimal performance out of what you already have. Dumping more money into the system after you've already made all these other investments is not a good idea.

Markw is correct in that if you're going to obsess about that last nuance of difference between different receiver models, then you should just buy it, try it, and if you like it, keep it. Good Guys has that 60-day return policy, so you got a lot of time to figure out if the new receiver's a big step up over what you currently use. If you want a store that has more of the Denon receivers available for audition and doesn't have everything patched through a selector switch, then forget about the chain stores and seek out an independent retailer that stocks Denon.

Good Guys is actually a huge step up from Best Buy and Circuit City, so I don't know what your expectations are. You once mentioned that you liked your shopping experience at Fry's, so why not go back there and look at their Onkyo, h/k, and Yamaha models? Denon is stocked at Ken Crane's which you also like, so why not shop there instead? For what you're expecting the stores to provide you, I doubt that those stores will be much better than GG. Fry's doesn't have the majority of their receivers hooked up either, and their demo rooms are even more limited in the options that they provide. The help that I've had at Fry's is much worse than anything I've ever seen at Good Guys.

Also, with GG you need to keep in mind that they went to a two-tiered system with their commissioned sales reps about a year ago, and it's now more of a crapshoot with the quality of help that you get over there. They kept their top commissioned sales reps and laid off everybody else, replacing them with lower paid and less experienced sales reps.

Everybody at some point has had their fair share of bad shopping experiences at electronics stores, but calling Good Guys the worst ever? That's quite overboard.

[hershon]

The only reason I went to Good Guys in the first place is its only a 15 minute bus ride from me (I don't drive, I'm from New York originally, that's my excuse) and they were the only place nearby. Incidently, I will be going to Ken Cranes in the next week or 2- my sister will give me a ride. What I was expecting was, given that Good Guys sells higher end stuff than Circuit City or Best Buy, was at least a sound experience where I would have a good rough idea if the overall sound quality was noticeably better, fully realizing that the speaker and CD/DVD set up and accoustics are different from my home. I would bring my own CD in to test the Denon system and play it at the same volume I do in my apartment. If it was only subjectively better, I wouldn't bother with it. Sorry, I had no desire unless there was an apparent difference in sound quality to my ears, of buying the system, unpacking it, disconnecting my system, connecting the new system and then if I wasn't impressed with it, disconnecting the new system, reconnecting my old system, repacking the new system and then go through the further hassle of returning it to the store. If you don't see that, well one of us is in left field looking in right.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. What are you expecting to find out by having the receiver hooked up? The sound quality differences are typically subtle at best, and don't really come out until you push the receiver to a fairly high level. You won't find out much by playing them at the store. With some of the questions that you've been asking lately and the assortment of purchases that you've made, I think rather than spending more time in audio stores, I think you need to spend less time looking for new purchases to make, and more time at home getting to know your system and setting it up so that you're getting optimal performance out of what you already have. Dumping more money into the system after you've already made all these other investments is not a good ballpark idea of the sound quality of their systems, in this case the Denon receiver.
I realise that the speakers and CD/DVD player and accoustics would be different to that of my home, but if I brought my own CD in, I would notice if the quality was noticeably, note I did not say subjectively, better. As far as the volume, you lost my on this one, I was going to play it at the same volume I listen to in my apartment. The offshoot was, under these conditions, if I noticed a substantial difference, I'd then compare prices online and get/try out the best deal provided, there was a return policy. If I did not hear a noticeable improvement, I did not want to go through the hassle of opening up a system, unhooking my system, connecting the new system, unhooking the new system, reconnecting my old system, repacking the new system and then returning it to the store. Do you see where I'm coming from or not? Unless there was potential for improvement I wasn't going to mess around with this & my experience at Good Guys set up did not allow me to make any determination. I will go to Ken Krane's next week. Even Circuit City had a better environment for trying audio equipment out. I considered Good Guys to be a step above Circuit City and Best Buy, till this experience and stand by my words.




Markw is correct in that if you're going to obsess about that last nuance of difference between different receiver models, then you should just buy it, try it, and if you like it, keep it. Good Guys has that 60-day return policy, so you got a lot of time to figure out if the new receiver's a big step up over what you currently use. If you want a store that has more of the Denon receivers available for audition and doesn't have everything patched through a selector switch, then forget about the chain stores and seek out an independent retailer that stocks Denon.

Good Guys is actually a huge step up from Best Buy and Circuit City, so I don't know what your expectations are. You once mentioned that you liked your shopping experience at Fry's, so why not go back there and look at their Onkyo, h/k, and Yamaha models? Denon is stocked at Ken Crane's which you also like, so why not shop there instead? For what you're expecting the stores to provide you, I doubt that those stores will be much better than GG. Fry's doesn't have the majority of their receivers hooked up either, and their demo rooms are even more limited in the options that they provide. The help that I've had at Fry's is much worse than anything I've ever seen at Good Guys.

Also, with GG you need to keep in mind that they went to a two-tiered system with their commissioned sales reps about a year ago, and it's now more of a crapshoot with the quality of help that you get over there. They kept their top commissioned sales reps and laid off everybody else, replacing them with lower paid and less experienced sales reps.

Everybody at some point has had their fair share of bad shopping experiences at electronics stores, but calling Good Guys the worst ever? That's quite overboard.

[topspeed]

I bought my Denon from GoodGuys and my experience was the exact opposite. The salesman was friendly, knowledgeable (he ran Matrix 801's), and their sound rooms were far better set-up and equipped than similar B&M stores. At least GG carries Energy, Monitor, and other mid-fi brands. They are a definite step-up from CC and BB.

Perhaps your experience was directly related to your expectations? In this situation, you might have been better served by hoping for the best but expecting the worst. Most of the time, these places are populated with college kids trying to make enough money for the next party. They know more about THC than THD.

Personally, I wouldn't write-off GG as they are one of the better places out there. Maybe you can try another one or, as others correctly suggested, try a hi-fi boutique or store you're comfortable with. FWIW, the differences between good receivers is so small that psychoacoustics will likely play a larger role than actual acoustics.

[hershon]

Can you please tell me your Denon Model number and your DVD/Universal player model.
Do you know if there are major differences in the sound quality (assume you are going to listen to 5.1 sound) between your system and the more expensive and/or cheaper models,
Thanks for your info. I'm glad you had a better experience at Good Guys then me. I could have even accepted college help but the accoustic set up at the store in Woodland Hills in LA was a true joke, even worse than Best Buy's.

I bought my Denon from GoodGuys and my experience was the exact opposite. The salesman was friendly, knowledgeable (he ran Matrix 801's), and their sound rooms were far better set-up and equipped than similar B&M stores. At least GG carries Energy, Monitor, and other mid-fi brands. They are a definite step-up from CC and BB.

Perhaps your experience was directly related to your expectations? In this situation, you might have been better served by hoping for the best but expecting the worst. Most of the time, these places are populated with college kids trying to make enough money for the next party. They know more about THC than THD.

Personally, I wouldn't write-off GG as they are one of the better places out there. Maybe you can try another one or, as others correctly suggested, try a hi-fi boutique or store you're comfortable with. FWIW, the differences between good receivers is so small that psychoacoustics will likely play a larger role than actual acoustics.

[topspeed]

Can you please tell me your Denon Model number and your DVD/Universal player model.

Click on my moniker and you'll see an equipment list for my main rig.

Do you know if there are major differences in the sound quality (assume you are going to listen to 5.1 sound) between your system and the more expensive and/or cheaper models

Well, the only time you'll hear "major" differences is when switching out your speakers, IMO. However, there are subtle differences between receivers given the same gear and environment. Personally, I found my B&W's to present a tough challenge to the Denon and it couldn't keep up. Subsequently, I was forced to purchase an outboard amp to re-energize my music. For HT, the receiver is more than adequate, but in critical 2 channel listening, it was found lacking. I can't comment on 5.1 music as I'm an old-school kind of guy and only listen to music in 2 channel. If the hi-rez formats survive, I'll probably get a Denon 2900 or similar universal player but as of now, the outlook is less than stellar.

Keep in mind that when you climb the ladder on AVR's, you are mainly paying for increased processing power and/or better DAC's and DSP's. The increased wattage is for marketing hype and largely insignificant. Which sound better and whether they are worth the extra dough only you can decide.

Hope this helps.

[shokhead]

What do you mean your 3805 could'nt keep up with your B&W's?