Does anyone else run there HT sans center speaker?

[manlystanley]

I have been running my HT without a center speaker for some time. I've been pleased with it, but then something happened that really made me appreciate this configuration even more, which was:

-- I was watching "The king and I" with my family on Saturday night, and I had just put back all the equipment on my new rear cabinets/counter top. During this process I had swapped the left and right inputs from my DVD/CD player.

-- This then caused: when people were on the left side of the screen there voice came out of the right side of the speaker and vis a versa.

-- I also have a 106 inch screen, so I can really hear and see when the sound does not follow the actors.

-- So with a center speaker you loose that positional sense which I think adds a lot.

So, does anyone else do this?

Best Regards,
Stan

[audio amateur]

My guess is if voices are coming from the right then most of the voices will not come out of the center but from the right speaker, which means that you won't loose any positonal sense. It only makes sense. I think center speakers should be used if you have the option of doing so.

[BadAssJazz]

Many, many moons ago, when I first put together my HT system, yes, I went sans center speaker. I had no choice, really, since the timbre-matched center for my speakers was $1,200 at the time, well outside my budget. I eventually found it for much cheaper used, and I'm so glad that I did. Wouldn't dream of using the HT without a center speaker at this point.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have been running my HT without a center speaker for some time. I've been pleased with it, but then something happened that really made me appreciate this configuration even more, which was:

-- I was watching "The king and I" with my family on Saturday night, and I had just put back all the equipment on my new rear cabinets/counter top. During this process I had swapped the left and right inputs from my DVD/CD player.

-- This then caused: when people were on the left side of the screen there voice came out of the right side of the speaker and vis a versa.

-- I also have a 106 inch screen, so I can really hear and see when the sound does not follow the actors.

-- So with a center speaker you loose that positional sense which I think adds a lot.

So, does anyone else do this?

Best Regards,
Stan

I think running any movie without a dedicated channel is a bad idea, especially with a 106" screen. When we mix soundtracks, you have to balance all of the individual elements with dialog taking precedence. We mix for clarity, which is why you will find few things mixed into the center channel in the presence of dialog. When you move that dialog into two very active channels (the left and right front channel), that balance is disturbed by an electrical and acoustical signal reduction of 3db. When sound effects are eminating from those channels along with dialog, the dialog will be swamped and become very difficult to hear. On a screen as wide as yours, this effect will be worsened by the distance between the left and right speakers.

Viewers that sit off axis of the center will not hear the dialog from screen in its rightful place, at the center of the screen. A phanton center image only works for a person sitting equi-distant from the front left and right mains. Once that person moves off axis left or right of center, the dialog will move as well. So instead of the dialog coming from the center of the screen, it will come from the speaker located closest to your off axis position. That is not what the director or the dialog re-recording mixer had in mind.

[poppachubby]

Stan, without reading any replies, I have to say I don't understand how you could not run the centre. I'm not a genius of H/T and my set up is limited. However, my impression of proper DTS and Dolby is that most sound comes out of the center. That being most conversation, etc. The rears are reserved for ambient and environmental sounds.

Does your system have a way of compensating without the center? My thought is that you would just lose all of this important audio with it disconnected. My H/T sounds so good with the traditional 5.1 and coax input, I wouldn't dream of messing with it. Why I was just watching Invisible Target last night, the explosions sounded so real. Footsteps and raindrops were subtley conveyed just as well.

[audio amateur]

Does your system have a way of compensating without the center? My thought is that you would just lose all of this important audio with it disconnected. My H/T sounds so good with the traditional 5.1 and coax input, I wouldn't dream of messing with it. Why I was just watching Invisible Target last night, the explosions sounded so real. Footsteps and raindrops were subtley conveyed just as well.

Yes, you can choose to have the center sound rerouted to the L & R channels by setting the center speaker to 'off' on the AVR.

[poppachubby]

Yes, you can choose to have the center sound rerouted to the L & R channels by setting the center speaker to 'off' on the AVR.

Huh. I had no idea, well more power to ya Stan.

[Feanor]

Yes, you can choose to have the center sound rerouted to the L & R channels by setting the center speaker to 'off' on the AVR.

Indeed, this can be done with virtually all AV receivers or prepros. It creates a "phantom center", but Sir ToT has very precisely described the problem with this.

[audio amateur]

Indeed, this can be done with virtually all AV receivers or prepros. It creates a "phantom center", but Sir ToT has very precisely described the problem with this.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, simply stating that it is possible and how to do it

[audio amateur]

It's Tony...

[poppachubby]

It's Tony...

Hahahah, nice but Stan is the OP's name. You are Tony, let's get this right.

[JoeE SP9]

A timbre matched center channel speaker is really not an option for me. The only one that comes close is the Martin Logan (ELS). Frankly, it's a little pricey for my system and usage. Although I'm equipped with 4 ESL's my system is primarily for 2 channel sound. My chair is directly on axis and the two flanking seats are quite close to being on axis. So, it's not that much of an issue for me. I run my Lexicon processor in phantom mode for the center channel and I have no problem hearing dialog.
When there is a thunderstorm in a movie I want to open an umbrella. Thunder and lightning make me want to duck.

[poppachubby]

When there is a thunderstorm in a movie I want to open an umbrella. Thunder and lightning make me want to duck.

I would suggest a two fold solution to this problem, meds and therapy.

[JoeE SP9]

The lovely Judy is providing plenty of therapy. I expect a lot of personal therapy from her tonight. The Chimay Grand Reserve is working quite nicely for my medication.

[E-Stat]

The only one that comes close is the Martin Logan (ELS). Frankly, it's a little pricey for my system and usage.

Actually, Sound Lab also makes a hybrid center channel, but isn't cheap either.

Marquee

Like you, I would prefer the coherence and resolution of a four channel electrostatic solution to any five channel box or horn.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Actually, Sound Lab also makes a hybrid center channel, but isn't cheap either.

Marquee

Like you, I would prefer the coherence and resolution of a four channel electrostatic solution to any five channel box or horn.

rw

Coherence and resolution is not limited to electrostatics. Also horn designs have improve so dramatically, that I think some of the best design could do battle with any electrostatic system out there.

[audio amateur]

Hahahah, nice but Stan is the OP's name. You are Tony, let's get this right.

LOL I thought that was for me

[Auricauricle]

I have a 2.1 set-up that has been suiting my purposes very well...no desire to pick up a center channel in the near future. While I don't experience the joys of distinct L-R separation as my brethren, the dialogue comes in quite clearly for our enjoyment.

[poppachubby]

Grolsch. After a week in Holland, I converted from Heineken.

Tetley. English style brewed in Australia.

Stella Artois/Carlsberg(Danish Import). The back-ups.

Always poured into a pilsner glass, never from the bottle. Research has shown that glass can chemically enhance the flavours of some beverages.

Cheers!!

[poppachubby]

I sense a battle about to unfold...

[audio amateur]

Funny how a lot of you seem to be into good beer. I've had the privilege of having been beer educated by my best friend who happens to be Belgian.
I've noticed that beer in general is quite expensive in the US compared to France. What's nice in the US is the variety of brews you have.

Thanks for the invite, it would be a pleasure. Unfortunately I don't know when I'll be around that area. You are welcome to Geneva and that's also for all of you.
Cheers!

[audio amateur]

Forgot to mention, I was in Prague very recently (August), and had my first Pilsner. Didn't think much of it. Prices were good though, about 2-3 bucks for a pint (UK pint), which is over a liter.
Don't mean to be off topic so back onto those center speakers

[Woochifer]

Indeed it's ideal to have a system with a center speaker, but in my experience you MUST make sure that the center channel is a sufficient match with the mains. The importance of the center speaker is a sliding scale.

For example, if you just insert any old speaker into the center channel and it severely mismatches with the mains, then you're much better off going without the center speaker.

Best case scenario is that you use three identical speakers up front. Perfect match and a seamless front soundstage if the speakers are positioned correctly. The horizontal center speaker is a compromise by necessity back when TVs were bulky boxes that took up the entire middle of the room. But, with most TVs now flat panels, wall mounting the TV now allows for the use of three identical speakers across the front.

[BadAssJazz]

Best case scenario is that you use three identical speakers up front. Perfect match and a seamless front soundstage if the speakers are positioned correctly. The horizontal center speaker is a compromise by necessity back when TVs were bulky boxes that took up the entire middle of the room. But, with most TVs now flat panels, wall mounting the TV now allows for the use of three identical speakers across the front.

You read my mind, Woochifer.

I was just considering my next speaker set upgrade and I'm thinking about going with 6 of the same model monitors and a sub for a 6.1 setup. What I haven't decided is which monitors to get. I could stick with the Silverline Audio brand, since I'm familiar with their performance and I love their look...or I could go in another directions. Decisions, decisions...

By the way, if anyone has blackmail photos of Santa caught in a compromising position with his elves, can you send it to me? I'd really like to get these for Christmas, http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowPro...p?hProduct=145 but I don't think Santa will bring it to me on account of my being more naughty than nice this year.

[audio amateur]

I love how these arguments go nowhere:-) How bout some more beer talk?