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  1. #26
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    If you look at major film review sites, the bluray version of this movie does not get high remarks. For example look at this review from DVD Verdict. He ask:

    "Is it worth a double-dip if you already have the DVD? Based on video quality alone, I'm not seeing a drastic enough increase in fidelity to warrant a re-purchase."

    http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/vacationbluray.php
    "drastic enough increase" but still an increase nonetheless. If someone doesn't already own that movie, and they want the best possible picture quality, then why would they opt for the DVD? Just because it's not as good as it should or could be does not negate the fact that there's still an "increase in fidelity." Whether it's enough for someone is their judgment call to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    I think the better question would be is whether poorly done bluray is worth %50 more in price than DVD copy?
    But, again even a poorly done Blu-ray will still look better than the DVD (and I've yet to hear of an exception to this), so your question is based on a double standard.
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  2. #27
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Maybe your income level or current status of independently wealthy is different than mine or my retirement goals. I chince out on many things in order to be prepared for what will no doubt be an ugly time when my wife and I get old and need help and care.

    Every FIFTY CENTS I save adds up to DOLLARS in the bank. But, it's not just about the money. Like I said, a chick flick in HD is still a chick flick. I don't give a rats ass about the grain of the film if there is no real action or sound effects to display. I'm not an HD snob.
    But, again if I've already made the investment in HDTV, I want to maximize the enjoyment out of that. That's why I upgraded my satellite receiver to HD, and why I got a Blu-ray player. It's not about being a HD snob, it's just getting the most out of my TV.

    A chick flick is still a chick flick, but watching a chick flick in SD makes the time even less tolerable!


    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Well here is where I am still old school. I don't have a portable player of any kind. I will not put dirty little ear buds in my ears to listen to inferior sounding audio. I do have and NOW listen to some of the music I have on hard drives but ONLY because of the ease of the streaming features of the OPPO. I listen to Pandora or LastFM at work very low on crappy little PC speakers.

    But, I listen to 95% of my music from a CD on a real audio system.
    Can you say that?

    I am an Audio Snob!
    Yep, and that's why I brought up the audio examples. Obviously, you're not going to avoid listening to music just because it's on an inferior system. But, the vast majority of your listening uses uncompressed CDs played through a component-based audio system. You buy CDs, rather than digital downloads. In most cases, the downloads are cheaper. A $0.50 differential might not be not worthy for your video viewing, but it seems that you're fine with paying more to get the CD

    So, I think you can relate to someone on the video side who wants to do as much of their viewing as possible through HD sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    First of all, I didn't waste my money. I saved for close to a year to buy the BEST player I could that would do everything the OPPO does and also play music CDs fairly well. The unit is for video in one system and audio in a second.
    Yep, the Oppo is about as good a performance value as there is. It's a Swiss Army knife that pretty much does it all. And it can output native DSD and PCM streams from SACD and DVD-A at full resolution via HDMI, if you eventually buy a compatible AV receiver.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    With the OPPO, I have everything one could want in a player so as I continue to upgrade when money permits, I will have a decent HT setup.
    That's the beauty of home theater, you don't have to buy everything all at once. Swap components out and enjoy the improvements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    You wouldn't believe how many people have purchased the 93 just to stream Netfix. Apparently more than will use it for DVD and Blu if you look at the AVS official 93 thread.
    Actually, I doubt that a lot the AVS crowd would buy an Oppo just for Netflix and not use the DVD or Blu-ray capability at all. I can believe that a lot of them would spend more time viewing Netflix streams than discs. But, except for a few bitter HD-DVD fanboys, I don't see too many people on that site, especially Oppo owners, that don't play Blu-rays at all.
    Last edited by Woochifer; 04-21-2011 at 05:38 PM.
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  3. #28
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    ....I haven't watched a Blu-Ray movie since receiving my PS3 from my wife as a Christmas present. We have Netflicks but only via streaming, and you can't get Blu-Ray that way yet (can you?). Once my HT room is finished (give me 4 to 6 weeks), I'll certainly want to get me some Blu-Ray. I'll probably change my Netflicks from streaming to delivery + streaming and pay the extra money.
    Wow, not even out of curiosity? That's will power!

    With Netflix, you can opt for the one-disc plan, and Blu-ray is one of the options. My wife doesn't really care because most of her Netflix rentals are TV series that aren't yet available on the streaming service. I will say that the picture quality on the Netflix streaming is surprisingly good, but it's definitely a step down from broadcast HD and Blu-ray. And on occasion, it can look downright awful.
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  4. #29
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    If someone doesn't already own that movie, and they want the best possible picture quality, then why would they opt for the DVD?
    May be because DVD cost half ($6.99 vs $13.49)

    Not withstanding newer title releases, most poeple have owned or seen the movie on DVD. And the main reason they buy bluray is to get that "wow" factor from improved picture and sound. If the wow factor is not there like the movie Vacation, I would consider that a bad buy.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    But, again if I've already made the investment in HDTV, I want to maximize the enjoyment out of that. That's why I upgraded my satellite receiver to HD, and why I got a Blu-ray player. It's not about being a HD snob, it's just getting the most out of my TV.
    I wanted a flat screen tv, it happens to be HD. I do not have to watch everything in HD to get through the day.




    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Yep, and that's why I brought up the audio examples. Obviously, you're not going to avoid listening to music just because it's on an inferior system. But, the vast majority of your listening uses uncompressed CDs played through a component-based audio system. You buy CDs, rather than digital downloads. In most cases, the downloads are cheaper. A $0.50 differential might not be not worthy for your video viewing, but it seems that you're fine with paying more to get the CD
    I actually have only purchased about 5 CDs over the last 3 years so it does not apply to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Actually, I doubt that a lot the AVS crowd would buy an Oppo just for Netflix and not use the DVD or Blu-ray capability at all. I can believe that a lot of them would spend more time viewing Netflix streams than discs. But, except for a few bitter HD-DVD fanboys, I don't see too many people on that site, especially Oppo owners, that don't play Blu-rays at all.
    I have read thru all 9000+ posts and plenty are about streaming and netflix.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    and is considered to be one of the best movies ever, if not the best.
    You need to listen to what a movie says, not just sit there and count the explosions
    Great, so now your telling me I need to buy a 60 year old B&W film that has no visual or sound effects, in Blu, so I can listen to the dialog.

    I guess if I had you logic, I would be broke 3 times in 17 years too.

    Nice radio by the way. I have never seen or heard one but it is pretty. I still have an old Proton clock radio dual alarm in the Bedroom that sounds decent for what it was 18 years ago.

  7. #32
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    May be because DVD cost half ($6.99 vs $13.49)
    But, again you're using the double standard. Note that I was talking about picture quality. If that's somebody's priority, there's no reason to opt for the DVD. You're focusing primarily on the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    Not withstanding newer title releases, most poeple have owned or seen the movie on DVD. And the main reason they buy bluray is to get that "wow" factor from improved picture and sound. If the wow factor is not there like the movie Vacation, I would consider that a bad buy.
    Not true at all. If I'm a fan of the movie, I'm simply going after maximum viewing enjoyment, and the picture quality's a big part of that. That's why I watch movies on the big screen, and that's why I primarily buy Blu-ray now. Once you buy a HDTV and start watching most of your programming in HD, it's a jarring experience going back to SD because you're now used to the higher HD resolution.
    Last edited by Woochifer; 04-22-2011 at 09:28 AM.
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  8. #33
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    I wanted a flat screen tv, it happens to be HD. I do not have to watch everything in HD to get through the day.
    Which is all well and good, but I also assume that you're not going to give up your audio rigs and start listening to everything through an iPod dock. You asked the original question about why people watch Blu-ray, and the audio analogy provides the answer for someone like you who prioritizes music.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    I have read thru all 9000+ posts and plenty are about streaming and netflix.
    But, again how many of them are talking about buying the Oppo only for the Netflix streaming capability, and not using the DVD and Blu-ray playback at all? You were saying that most of the AVS posters fell into that group. And I find that hard to believe given that AVS is a hardcore video enthusiast audience, and there are many less expensive devices out there for Netflix streaming.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer


    But, again how many of them are talking about buying the Oppo only for the Netflix streaming capability, and not using the DVD and Blu-ray playback at all? You were saying that most of the AVS posters fell into that group. And I find that hard to believe given that AVS is a hardcore video enthusiast audience, and there are many less expensive devices out there for Netflix streaming.
    Ok so Only was not the right word. Read thru the last 400 pages, it's all about netfix and different streaming problems and comparisons to netflix quality on PS3 vs the OPPO.

    I am assuming you have not really read the whole Official OPPO 93 thread but maybe you glanced over several hundred posts because they didn't apply to Blu Ray only.

  10. #35
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    May be because DVD cost half ($6.99 vs $13.49)

    Not withstanding newer title releases, most poeple have owned or seen the movie on DVD. And the main reason they buy bluray is to get that "wow" factor from improved picture and sound. If the wow factor is not there like the movie Vacation, I would consider that a bad buy.
    I HAVE a stack that I PAID 6.00 for each, one (FAST AND FURIOUS) cost 10.
    HATE to burst your bubble, but "VACATION is hardly a classic, nobody is going to
    pay for what a complete redo will cost. This is true of a lot of films, and so BLU
    just becomes a marketing gimmick.
    BUT even just a transfer usually looks decent, the only time I would be P.O'ed with
    this treatment is to have a real classic done this way.
    TOTAL RECALL is the only BLU disappointment so far, quite a record, although I
    lower the bar a bit for "cheapies".
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  11. #36
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I watch both on my Oppo and since the video upsampling in the BDP 83 is very good for converting DVD to 1080p I will sometimes buy a movie used on DVD instead of blue ray because it is so much cheaper and the movie is either older or would not really benefit having it in blue ray like some of the action films or something with a awesome sound track or great video. I have watched some of my older DVD's on my Oppo and they look quite good when being upsampled to my Samsung LED tv. But movies like Avatar and the like really do benefit both audio and video wise by having the blue ray copy if you have the equipment that can really bring out what the format has to offer.

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  12. #37
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    I watch both on my Oppo and since the video upsampling in the BDP 83 is very good for converting DVD to 1080p I will sometimes buy a movie used on DVD instead of blue ray because it is so much cheaper and the movie is either older or would not really benefit having it in blue ray like some of the action films or something with a awesome sound track or great video. I have watched some of my older DVD's on my Oppo and they look quite good when being upsampled to my Samsung LED tv. But movies like Avatar and the like really do benefit both audio and video wise by having the blue ray copy if you have the equipment that can really bring out what the format has to offer.
    You would really be surprised at the quality of some of the older films you assume would not benefit from a Bluray release. Let's go over a few.

    Blade Runner
    Baraka
    The Searchers
    Lawrence of Arabia
    Blazing Saddles
    Guns of Navarone
    Casablanca
    The Adventures of Robin Hood
    The Godfather
    Apocalypse Now
    Taxi Driver
    The Wizard of Oz
    2001: A Space Odyssey
    Full Metal Jacket
    How the West Was Won

    I have about twenty more oldies that look beautiful on Bluray, so older titles can look more beautiful and film like on Bluray than on DVD.
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  13. #38
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Oh i know I have seen some of them I just go with how important the film is to me and how much money I want to spend on it. If it a classic or something that I have always loved then Blue ray all the way, If it is something for my friends kids to watch when they come over DVD.

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  14. #39
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    I watch both on my Oppo and since the video upsampling in the BDP 83 is very good for converting DVD to 1080p I will sometimes buy a movie used on DVD instead of blue ray because it is so much cheaper and the movie is either older or would not really benefit having it in blue ray like some of the action films or something with a awesome sound track or great video. I have watched some of my older DVD's on my Oppo and they look quite good when being upsampled to my Samsung LED tv. But movies like Avatar and the like really do benefit both audio and video wise by having the blue ray copy if you have the equipment that can really bring out what the format has to offer.
    Quite the contrary, I think a lot of older movies actually benefit more from Blu-ray. You're making a flawed assumption that newer movies benefit the most from Blu-ray's higher resolution. In fact, with many newer movies going to digital cinema for production, and digital intermediaries for post-production work, the 35mm and 70mm film used on older movies is actually higher in resolution than the digital sources being used with newer movies. (Only with 4k resolution does digital cinematography and post-production begin to approach the resolution of 35mm film, and most digital cinema right now remains at 2k)

    The challenge has always been transferring all of that resolution from the film source into the digital domain, without introducing all kinds of artifacts into the image. With digital cinema and digital intermediaries, it's a direct transfer with no physical mechanism required. It looks clean because it is clean.

    However, with 35mm film there's more texture and nuance in the image capture, and the cinematographer will purposely choose the film stock with a particular look in mind. A DVD cannot display all that detail without the image macroblocking and breaking up, so the producers will apply noise reduction to blur out the detail, and then resharpen the image with edge enhancement. If done right, the DVD can look pretty decent, but it also obscured much of the detail and cinematography in the process.

    Blu-ray can display all of that detail and textured look from film without the image breaking up. If the purpose of home theater is bringing you closer to the theatrical experience, then Blu-ray does that far better than the DVD format does. Compare a well done Blu-ray with the DVD version, it's like looking outside after cleaning a dirty window.
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  15. #40
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I was not saying anything about resolution on older movies because I know that film had better resolution. I was referring to my preference and how much money I am prepared to spend on any certain movie. If there is an older movie on blue ray that have wanted for a while then I get it but if it is a movie that I would not mind having but I don't see fit to spend the extra for the blue ray copy I will buy the cheaper DVD copy since I will have it mostly for occasional entertainment at best. The resolution thing is the same thing going on with still SLR camera's too in that a lot of camera buffs still prefer the 35 mm image over digital jut like the older movie camera's used 35 or 70 mm camera's. I see what you are saying and I agree and I do own several older movies that are classics that look better in Blue Ray and thus I bought them in that format because it is the best available right now.

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  16. #41
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    I was not saying anything about resolution on older movies because I know that film had better resolution. I was referring to my preference and how much money I am prepared to spend on any certain movie. If there is an older movie on blue ray that have wanted for a while then I get it but if it is a movie that I would not mind having but I don't see fit to spend the extra for the blue ray copy I will buy the cheaper DVD copy since I will have it mostly for occasional entertainment at best. The resolution thing is the same thing going on with still SLR camera's too in that a lot of camera buffs still prefer the 35 mm image over digital jut like the older movie camera's used 35 or 70 mm camera's. I see what you are saying and I agree and I do own several older movies that are classics that look better in Blue Ray and thus I bought them in that format because it is the best available right now.
    THE " resolution" thing is just a part of the advantage of owning BLU.
    All aspects of the picture are improved, and they say the disc itself is more sturdy.
    IF COLLECTING, you need to get the media in the best format you can, IMHO.
    And "film" does not always offer "better" resolution, but BLU transfers tend to be
    worked over, or remastered before being transfered, and there are other things like
    the improved menu system, etc.
    BLU is basically "state of the art", and is really not that much more expensive.
    I have replaced several DVD's in my collection, and haven't regretted it once(well, maybe once).
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  17. #42
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    It is finally starting to come down in price to match some DVD prices I have seen over the past few months so my mind will probably change on this now but There is a shop in my town that sells used DVD's for like 3 bucks and blue rays for around 12 so it really depends on how much I like the film.

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  18. #43
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    It is finally starting to come down in price to match some DVD prices I have seen over the past few months so my mind will probably change on this now but There is a shop in my town that sells used DVD's for like 3 bucks and blue rays for around 12 so it really depends on how much I like the film.
    Thats usually the case.
    I usually wait for a format to become somewhat established, for prices to come
    down a bit. Didn't work with SACD and DVDA, but is working with BLU.
    also my taste is somewhat eccentric, so my stuff is cheaper, mostly.
    ANOTHER thing that helped the collector is the unfortunate collapse of
    the video store industry.
    WHEN movie gallery died I picked up a ton of very slightly used BLU discs,
    some for as little as four bucks. One of my best discs, Blade Runner, I got that
    way.
    When of modest means you have to keep your eyes out.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do you watch only Blu Rays just because?-26b905f7a6.jpg  
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

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