DLP tech: Past Present & Future

[Rich-n-Texas]

Shameless plug, but I'm allowed...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...A&chanID=sa003

Enjoy!

[GMichael]

Shameless plug, but I'm allowed...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...A&chanID=sa003

Enjoy!

Admit it, you're just baiting Pixy.

[GMichael]

You da master.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Yeah well... what goes around comes around.

[PeruvianSkies]

Yeah well... what goes around comes around.

That it does my friend, that it does. Kinda like that Rage Against the Machine Song....the year of the boomerang!

[pixelthis]

DLP probably has a future as a front projector driver, but the future of any "microdisplay"
or rear projector is limited.
JVC recently came out with a LCOS rear projector that, through special optics,
can hang on a wall.
I have seen the future of direct view sets, and they are hanging on the wall, rich on papers
propaganda notwithstanding.
There are about 500 millon TV's in this country and you've sold 12 millon DLP chips
in twenty years.
Does that tell you something?

[Rich-n-Texas]

DLP probably has a future as a front projector driver, but the future of any "microdisplay" or rear projector is limited.

Probably? Did you read the part about the DLP Projector in use in 99% of the movie theaters that have gone digital? Worldwide? 4000 theaters.

JVC recently came out with a LCOS rear projector that, through special optics, can hang on a wall.

Special optics? Wow! I wonder what that costs? Hope it's not a mechanical tech!

I have seen the future of direct view sets, and they are hanging on the wall, rich on papers propaganda notwithstanding.

Nostradamus is at it again! Where are the facts to support that? Oh that's right, your personal preferences ARE the facts.

There are about 500 millon TV's in this country and you've sold 12 millon DLP chips in twenty years. Does that tell you something?

500 million TV's in this country. Do you work for the Census bureau in your spare time? Does Wal-Mart know you're moonlighting? Show me the stats to back that up.

Yes, having sold 12 million chips in twenty years, to the NSA to develop

optical correlators able to swiftly detect objects, such as tanks and armored personnel carriers, during surveillance

and then, to the film industry, which until recently...

relied on expensive and bulky film reels to deliver movies to theaters. Feature film director and producer George Lucas was a fan of digital film and projection technologies from the start. In fact, the seminal moment for DLP Cinema projector technology came in 1999 when it was publicly demonstrated for the first time on two screens in Los Angeles and New York City marking the release of Lucasfilm's Star Wars: Episode I--The Phantom Menace.

Furthermore...

the technology can be found in about 50 different HDTV models available from a number of different TV manufacturers.

And, by saying...

you've sold 12 millon DLP chips in twenty years. Does that tell you something?

do you mean we've been selling DLP TV's since 1987? Is that what you're saying?

As for the future of DLP technology...

High-definition television and digital cinema just scratch the surface of DLP's capabilities. Doctors are hoping that DLP technology will help them fix on tumors more accurately during radiation therapy to spare surrounding healthy tissue.

I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone, but with DLP technology, going forward a cancer survivor can feel comfortable knowing their quality of life will be better than ever.

...I do not believe that lamp engine technologies will survive much longer other than front projection systems. The constant cost cutting of panels is going to make it very difficult for them to survive. DLP is an outdated tech compared to LCOS (Sony & JVC). DLP needs to do a 3 chip rear projection to compete w/ LCOS (it is still doing wobulation).

Lamp and wheel are being replaced by LED's. They're already on the market. Three chip DLP's are either on their way or are already available. I can check on that though.

[DEVO]

Lamp and wheel are being replaced by LED's. They're already on the market. Three chip DLP's are either on their way or are already available. I can check on that though.

The LED is not a different chip, it is a longer lasting lamp engine. Without the use of the color wheel. It still uses wobulation!

The only problem w/ a three chip rear projection DLP is $$$. The front projection versions are amazing, however; they cost +15,000 and more. If you put that into a rear projection, it outways the cost of a 60"- plasma or LCD panel.

I don't dislike the tech. it is unfortunetly starting to see it's end...

[GMichael]

I have seen the future

Dr Emmett Lathrop Brown? Is that you?

[DEVO]

As much as I hate to agree w/ pixelthis...I do not believe that lamp engine technologies will survive much longer other than front projection systems. The constant cost cutting of panels is going to make it very difficult for them to survive.

Other issues to think of:
1. Replacement lamps
2. Sweet spots
3. DLP is an outdated tech compared to LCOS (Sony & JVC). DLP needs to do a 3 chip rear projection to compete w/ LCOS (it is still doing wobulation).

Personally, I believe that rear projection has its days marked. Only due to panels coming down in price and front projection systems becoming more and more popular.

[DEVO]

Ohhhhhh! I get it!!!!!!!!!!!! DLP is the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Well, when you work for the company that employs the inventor, a certain amount of loyalty develops.

Take some time to search through some of his posts and you'll see why I sometimes take a defensive posture.

[pixelthis]

Well, when you work for the company that employs the inventor, a certain amount of loyalty develops.

Take some time to search through some of his posts and you'll see why I sometimes take a defensive posture.

maybe if you actualy read some of my posts you would'nt be so defensive.
The set JVC builds that hangs on the wall is just to prove my point, that a bulky rear projection TVs' days are numbered. Being able to hang a set on the wall is so important
that JVC went to a great deal of pain to build a LCOS set that hangs on the wall.
As for medical use I work in a hospital, and in the ED they use xray ct for quick looks at patients, these are networked to ED doctors who veiw them on high resolution LCD
DISPLAYS.
MY DEPT recently got some hand me down Sony crt monitors from endoscophy.
They are being replaced by, you guessed it, LCD monitors.
But dont worry rich, theres still a strong market for front projectors, you just have to get the price down a bit so a three chip model can be more affordable.
That ^&%#@ color wheel simply has to go!
Did'nt your engineers ever hear of the KISS rule?
The first rule of good design

[Rich-n-Texas]

As for medical use I work in a hospital, and in the ED they use xray ct for quick looks at patients, these are networked to ED doctors who veiw them on high resolution LCD
DISPLAYS.
MY DEPT recently got some hand me down Sony crt monitors from endoscophy.
They are being replaced by, you guessed it, LCD monitors.

Now we know that you don't really work for a hospital, just in a hospital. Again, I got the impression you were a Neurosurgeon.

You're DEPT is Building Security right? A seperate organization right? That explains why you got hand-me-downs. The upcoming technology will be too valuable to the medical community to be handed down to building security. Does that make any sense?

[PeruvianSkies]

Now we know that you don't really work for a hospital, just in a hospital. Again, I got the impression you were a Neurosurgeon.

You're DEPT is Building Security right? A seperate organization right? That explains why you got hand-me-downs. The upcoming technology will be too valuable to the medical community to be handed down to building security. Does that make any sense?

I wonder if Pix's real name happens to be Travis Bickle? Hmmm.

Question: am I allowed to hijack a thread that has already been semi-hijacked by the original poster?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I wonder if Pix's real name happens to be Travis Bickle? Hmmm.

Question: am I allowed to hijack a thread that has already been semi-hijacked by the original poster?

Yes, but be careful. A sociopath with a gun is a very dangerous individual.

[jim goulding]

For a dude about to jump into hi def from a good but relatively poor resolution CRT TV, this is highly fascinating conversation. I'm pretty mistrustful of plasma and DLP technology for trouble free long term satisfaction but I do see motion artifacts on LCD and LCOS models in the store. I think that plasma has the best color. If LCD could do as well regards color and motion, I could be a customer. Anyone, that includes you, Pix, have the latest information about improvements in these areas using which manufacturers/models? I don't care to hang it on a wall but I would like to view it somewhat off axis without loss of light. Appreciate it. Really.

[pixelthis]

Now we know that you don't really work for a hospital, just in a hospital. Again, I got the impression you were a Neurosurgeon.

You're DEPT is Building Security right? A seperate organization right? That explains why you got hand-me-downs. The upcoming technology will be too valuable to the medical community to be handed down to building security. Does that make any sense?

Why are you so obsessed with my occupation? Lets just say I WASTED a few decades in public service so that desk jockeys with delusions of having a real job could step
outta the house without some mad max type cutting your panties off with a switchblade.
And police and security 101, the people in the building are more important than THE
building.
As for DLP, none of the "features" you stated in yours is missing from mine, the important ones at least.
Cablecard? What a joke. A cablebox with DVR and HD is the way to go, cablecard is limited and never has worked very well.
And most of the other "features" are folderall dependent on using mitsu stuff.
And I have a VGA myself, using my 37in "desktop" as I speak.

But the biggest barrier to DLP is the WAF factor. Women think flat panels hanging on walls look cool. Flat panels are the first device in HT history that wives have directed their husbands to buy, guys who havent had a decent TV in years because they were too bulky now have hugh sets, thanks to the coolness factor.
And my set has a bigger "option" than all of your stuff combined, I WONT SPEND
1,000 TO 1,500 in ten years of use on bulbs, and most DLP still have bulbs.
Look at who you're selling to, a small slice of the market thats willing to put up with a larger set for a larger picture, and a lot of THEM are going SXRD.
A nd the ones who arent are going front projection.
AND THE "LOW COST" OF dlp? Give me a break! The infamous color wheel is there because the price for a DLP chip for each color is prohibitively high
One final thought about these "features" you talk about. Most are dependent on using the tuner, most who are really into HT are going to use cable or sat.
My set has atsc and ntsc tuners, AND PIP, and I NEVER USE ANY BECAUSE,
1. My cablebox and dvd are my main sources, and
2. In case you haven't noticed PIP doesn't work that well with HDTV
i had a mitsu once, my last standard def was a 60in mitsu , with basically the same "guide", put out by RCA, downloaded over cable to your set. Nice.
And the guide from a motorola cablebox blows its doors off.
But don't fret rich in your own mind. WHEN YOU CASH IN THAT "HUGE" 401K
and can't buy a loaf of bread with it, you can always live in that huge tv of yours.
THATS what I call thinkin for the future!

[PeruvianSkies]

Why are you so obsessed with my occupation? Lets just say I WASTED a few decades in public service so that desk jockeys with delusions of having a real job could step
outta the house without some mad max type cutting your panties off with a switchblade.
And police and security 101, the people in the building are more important than THE
building.
As for DLP, none of the "features" you stated in yours is missing from mine, the important ones at least.
Cablecard? What a joke. A cablebox with DVR and HD is the way to go, cablecard is limited and never has worked very well.
And most of the other "features" are folderall dependent on using mitsu stuff.
And I have a VGA myself, using my 37in "desktop" as I speak.

But the biggest barrier to DLP is the WAF factor. Women think flat panels hanging on walls look cool. Flat panels are the first device in HT history that wives have directed their husbands to buy, guys who havent had a decent TV in years because they were too bulky now have hugh sets, thanks to the coolness factor.
And my set has a bigger "option" than all of your stuff combined, I WONT SPEND
1,000 TO 1,500 in ten years of use on bulbs, and most DLP still have bulbs.
Look at who you're selling to, a small slice of the market thats willing to put up with a larger set for a larger picture, and a lot of THEM are going SXRD.
A nd the ones who arent are going front projection.
AND THE "LOW COST" OF dlp? Give me a break! The infamous color wheel is there because the price for a DLP chip for each color is prohibitively high
One final thought about these "features" you talk about. Most are dependent on using the tuner, most who are really into HT are going to use cable or sat.
My set has atsc and ntsc tuners, AND PIP, and I NEVER USE ANY BECAUSE,
1. My cablebox and dvd are my main sources, and
2. In case you haven't noticed PIP doesn't work that well with HDTV
i had a mitsu once, my last standard def was a 60in mitsu , with basically the same "guide", put out by RCA, downloaded over cable to your set. Nice.
And the guide from a motorola cablebox blows its doors off.
But don't fret rich in your own mind. WHEN YOU CASH IN THAT "HUGH" 401K
and can't buy a loaf of bread with it, you can always live in that hugh tv of yours.
THATS what I call thinkin for the future!

What's a "HUGH"...? You used it twice in that thread...never heard the term before aside from someone's name.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.

[GMichael]

Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.

Are you saying that you can't build semiconductors out of twigs and branches?
I'll be right back. I've got to call my buddies at IBM Research and tell them the bad news.

[pixelthis]

Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.

I'm saying that NO type of rear projector has any type of future.
Doesn't mean that front projectors are in trouble. Talk to your marketing dept, they are probably concentrating on that area.
And maybe DLP does have some medicinal uses, but they are ancillary, I'M SURE.
As for the KISS principle, DLP chips have hundreds of thousands of tiny mirrors on hundreds of thousands of tiny hinghes, and still needs a color wheel spinning
really fast to get color.
AND prizms.
AND a mercury bulb that lasts a couple of years at most.
Gotta be a better way, Rich.
Like a LCD high rez flat panel run by a cool (or cooler) flourescent, with a projected life of 20,000 hours, at least.
Thats what the market is saying, at least.
BUT A LOT HAS TO DO WITH my BIAS, I don't like electrostatics for the same reasons.
Just too complicated when something else out there is simpler, and does the job just as well, if not better.
Not to mention that its a lot easier to place your center speaker when your set is up out of the way

[DEVO]

I just got out of sales in the higher end market...and unfortunetly the rear projection market has fallen. Now for pix...he has his own issues to work out! Whether the hospital will let him out on weekends or not, I don't know?

I hated to leave, but my wallet was cryin'...

[PeruvianSkies]

I missed this flame-session! Is there still some fire left ??? Or did GM use all the wood to build his new set.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Don't worry, you'll get your chance. I'm waiting for pixe to answer my latest questions...