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    DLP tech: Past Present & Future

    Shameless plug, but I'm allowed...

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...A&chanID=sa003

    Enjoy!

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    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Shameless plug, but I'm allowed...

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...A&chanID=sa003

    Enjoy!
    Admit it, you're just baiting Pixy.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  3. #3
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    You da master.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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    Yeah well... what goes around comes around.

  5. #5
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Yeah well... what goes around comes around.
    That it does my friend, that it does. Kinda like that Rage Against the Machine Song....the year of the boomerang!

  6. #6
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    DLP probably has a future as a front projector driver, but the future of any "microdisplay"
    or rear projector is limited.
    JVC recently came out with a LCOS rear projector that, through special optics,
    can hang on a wall.
    I have seen the future of direct view sets, and they are hanging on the wall, rich on papers
    propaganda notwithstanding.
    There are about 500 millon TV's in this country and you've sold 12 millon DLP chips
    in twenty years.
    Does that tell you something?
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    Forum Regular DEVO's Avatar
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    As much as I hate to agree w/ pixelthis...I do not believe that lamp engine technologies will survive much longer other than front projection systems. The constant cost cutting of panels is going to make it very difficult for them to survive.

    Other issues to think of:
    1. Replacement lamps
    2. Sweet spots
    3. DLP is an outdated tech compared to LCOS (Sony & JVC). DLP needs to do a 3 chip rear projection to compete w/ LCOS (it is still doing wobulation).

    Personally, I believe that rear projection has its days marked. Only due to panels coming down in price and front projection systems becoming more and more popular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    DLP probably has a future as a front projector driver, but the future of any "microdisplay" or rear projector is limited.
    Probably? Did you read the part about the DLP Projector in use in 99% of the movie theaters that have gone digital? Worldwide? 4000 theaters.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    JVC recently came out with a LCOS rear projector that, through special optics, can hang on a wall.
    Special optics? Wow! I wonder what that costs? Hope it's not a mechanical tech!

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I have seen the future of direct view sets, and they are hanging on the wall, rich on papers propaganda notwithstanding.
    Nostradamus is at it again! Where are the facts to support that? Oh that's right, your personal preferences ARE the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    There are about 500 millon TV's in this country and you've sold 12 millon DLP chips in twenty years. Does that tell you something?
    500 million TV's in this country. Do you work for the Census bureau in your spare time? Does Wal-Mart know you're moonlighting? Show me the stats to back that up.

    Yes, having sold 12 million chips in twenty years, to the NSA to develop
    Quote Originally Posted by Scientific American
    optical correlators able to swiftly detect objects, such as tanks and armored personnel carriers, during surveillance
    and then, to the film industry, which until recently...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scientific American
    relied on expensive and bulky film reels to deliver movies to theaters. Feature film director and producer George Lucas was a fan of digital film and projection technologies from the start. In fact, the seminal moment for DLP Cinema projector technology came in 1999 when it was publicly demonstrated for the first time on two screens in Los Angeles and New York City marking the release of Lucasfilm's Star Wars: Episode I--The Phantom Menace.
    Furthermore...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scientific American
    the technology can be found in about 50 different HDTV models available from a number of different TV manufacturers.
    And, by saying...
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    you've sold 12 millon DLP chips in twenty years. Does that tell you something?
    do you mean we've been selling DLP TV's since 1987? Is that what you're saying?

    As for the future of DLP technology...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scientific American
    High-definition television and digital cinema just scratch the surface of DLP's capabilities. Doctors are hoping that DLP technology will help them fix on tumors more accurately during radiation therapy to spare surrounding healthy tissue.
    I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone, but with DLP technology, going forward a cancer survivor can feel comfortable knowing their quality of life will be better than ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by DEVO
    ...I do not believe that lamp engine technologies will survive much longer other than front projection systems. The constant cost cutting of panels is going to make it very difficult for them to survive. DLP is an outdated tech compared to LCOS (Sony & JVC). DLP needs to do a 3 chip rear projection to compete w/ LCOS (it is still doing wobulation).
    Lamp and wheel are being replaced by LED's. They're already on the market. Three chip DLP's are either on their way or are already available. I can check on that though.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular DEVO's Avatar
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    Lamp and wheel are being replaced by LED's. They're already on the market. Three chip DLP's are either on their way or are already available. I can check on that though.
    The LED is not a different chip, it is a longer lasting lamp engine. Without the use of the color wheel. It still uses wobulation!

    The only problem w/ a three chip rear projection DLP is $$$. The front projection versions are amazing, however; they cost +15,000 and more. If you put that into a rear projection, it outways the cost of a 60"- plasma or LCD panel.

    I don't dislike the tech. it is unfortunetly starting to see it's end...

  10. #10
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I have seen the future
    Dr Emmett Lathrop Brown? Is that you?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEVO
    The LED is not a different chip, it is a longer lasting lamp engine. Without the use of the color wheel. It still uses wobulation!

    The only problem w/ a three chip rear projection DLP is $$$. The front projection versions are amazing, however; they cost +15,000 and more. If you put that into a rear projection, it outways the cost of a 60"- plasma or LCD panel.

    I don't dislike the tech. it is unfortunetly starting to see it's end...
    The point I was trying to make DEVO was directed at pixe. DLP technology started as an innovation for the defense department, evolved to create innovation in the home entertainment industry and will soon have an impact in the medical community. IN THE BIG PICTURE, I'd say Texas Instruments is having a positive impact on the lives of many people, whatever their walk of life.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular DEVO's Avatar
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    Ohhhhhh! I get it!!!!!!!!!!!! DLP is the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Well, when you work for the company that employs the inventor, a certain amount of loyalty develops.

    Take some time to search through some of his posts and you'll see why I sometimes take a defensive posture.

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    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Well, when you work for the company that employs the inventor, a certain amount of loyalty develops.

    Take some time to search through some of his posts and you'll see why I sometimes take a defensive posture.
    maybe if you actualy read some of my posts you would'nt be so defensive.
    The set JVC builds that hangs on the wall is just to prove my point, that a bulky rear projection TVs' days are numbered. Being able to hang a set on the wall is so important
    that JVC went to a great deal of pain to build a LCOS set that hangs on the wall.
    As for medical use I work in a hospital, and in the ED they use xray ct for quick looks at patients, these are networked to ED doctors who veiw them on high resolution LCD
    DISPLAYS.
    MY DEPT recently got some hand me down Sony crt monitors from endoscophy.
    They are being replaced by, you guessed it, LCD monitors.
    But dont worry rich, theres still a strong market for front projectors, you just have to get the price down a bit so a three chip model can be more affordable.
    That ^&%#@ color wheel simply has to go!
    Did'nt your engineers ever hear of the KISS rule?
    The first rule of good design
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    Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.

  16. #16
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.
    Are you saying that you can't build semiconductors out of twigs and branches?
    I'll be right back. I've got to call my buddies at IBM Research and tell them the bad news.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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    Forum Regular DEVO's Avatar
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    I just got out of sales in the higher end market...and unfortunetly the rear projection market has fallen. Now for pix...he has his own issues to work out! Whether the hospital will let him out on weekends or not, I don't know?

    I hated to leave, but my wallet was cryin'...

  18. #18
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Dang....

    I missed this flame-session! Is there still some fire left ??? Or did GM use all the wood to build his new set.

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    Don't worry, you'll get your chance. I'm waiting for pixe to answer my latest questions...

  20. #20
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Why would I not get defensive when someone constantly bad-mouths my employer every time I bring up our technology? And now you're telling me TI's DLP has no future in the medical arena? Is that what you're saying? Keep it simple? No such thing in the semiconductor industry dude.
    I'm saying that NO type of rear projector has any type of future.
    Doesn't mean that front projectors are in trouble. Talk to your marketing dept, they are probably concentrating on that area.
    And maybe DLP does have some medicinal uses, but they are ancillary, I'M SURE.
    As for the KISS principle, DLP chips have hundreds of thousands of tiny mirrors on hundreds of thousands of tiny hinghes, and still needs a color wheel spinning
    really fast to get color.
    AND prizms.
    AND a mercury bulb that lasts a couple of years at most.
    Gotta be a better way, Rich.
    Like a LCD high rez flat panel run by a cool (or cooler) flourescent, with a projected life of 20,000 hours, at least.
    Thats what the market is saying, at least.
    BUT A LOT HAS TO DO WITH my BIAS, I don't like electrostatics for the same reasons.
    Just too complicated when something else out there is simpler, and does the job just as well, if not better.
    Not to mention that its a lot easier to place your center speaker when your set is up out of the way
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    Any idea how many millions of gates there are in that eMachines computer's microprocessor you're dickin' with pix? Or in that Visio's microprocessor? Oh wait, yeah, Visio's are KISS technology huh?

  22. #22
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Any idea how many millions of gates there are in that eMachines computer's microprocessor you're dickin' with pix? Or in that Visio's microprocessor? Oh wait, yeah, Visio's are KISS technology huh?
    Yeah, mankinds first foray into nano-tech, and all SOLID STATE.
    Do you know how hard it was to keep a TV tuned with those mechanical "clunk"
    tuners? And they would get loose, and you'd have to tape the channel knob to get it to stay in tune.
    Nothing mechanical will last as long as solid state, the fewer moving parts you have
    in something the more reliable it will be.
    And my computer is a home-brew job, thank you very much.
    And VIZIO LCD, like any LCD, is kiss friendly.
    A color panel over a lcd panel, all backlit by a flouresent, its rated life is 20,000 hours,
    put another bulb in and run it another 20,000 hours.
    Its easy for machines to assemble, hence low cost, and its made outta dirt, (silicon)
    hence low cost.
    I had a little Casio 2.5 screen, dropped pixels out the kazoo, but I watched it one night
    and thought, "this is the future"
    I bet if I dug that little sucker out it would STILL work.
    you know Rich, they had a system in the twenties that showed simple clips of motion, used a lamp and a spinning wheel, faded fast as the CRT took hold.
    The only thing detractors have is some mysterious element called "PQ"
    I think its funny that a standard of HT, mainly that a set never looks decent in a store, has been thrown out.
    Turn down everything to fifty percent, like you'd do with a CRT, including the backlight(turn it back up during bright light conditions) put your main source of illumination behind the set,
    even though there is practically no glare, and you get a great picture.
    And like I tell friends when the gas leaks outta their plasma (usually before the big game)
    THE BEST "PQ IS ACTUALLY HAVING A PICTURE.
    Which you wont have when that "torch" of a mercury bulb dies a painfull death after a very short life
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Yeah, mankinds first foray into nano-tech, and all SOLID STATE.
    Do you know how hard it was to keep a TV tuned with those mechanical "clunk"
    tuners? And they would get loose, and you'd have to tape the channel knob to get it to stay in tune.
    So you're using 1940's - 50's technology with 21st century technology as your analogy? That's weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Nothing mechanical will last as long as solid state, the fewer moving parts you have
    in something the more reliable it will be.
    I don't dispute that fact. Like I said loooong time ago, DLP tech is evolving. It was a good compromise from a pricing standpoint when introduced. It's a well known fact that it hit the market at the right time, established excellent market share, and now that it no longer has mechanical parts, except maybe for some cooling fans, it will once again please the masses. And yes, we also have projectors that will keep us well established in the home and commercial theater marketplace.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And my computer is a home-brew job, thank you very much.
    So's mine. I'll bet it's faster than yours too.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And VIZIO LCD, like any LCD, is kiss friendly.
    A color panel over a lcd panel, all backlit by a flouresent, its rated life is 20,000 hours,
    put another bulb in and run it another 20,000 hours.
    LED DLP's. Half-life = 60,000 hrs I believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Its easy for machines to assemble, hence low cost, and its made outta dirt, (silicon)
    hence low cost.
    That would be sand, not dirt.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I had a little Casio 2.5 screen, dropped pixels out the kazoo, but I watched it one night
    and thought, "this is the future"
    I bet if I dug that little sucker out it would STILL work.
    Did it have picture-in-picture? Here are some of the convenience features of my TV:
    • Split screen
    • Interactive TV Guide updated nightly
    • ClearThought® Easy Connect Auto Input
      Sensing
    • Digital Cable Ready (CableCARD™)
    • NetCommand
      ® Home Network Control
      System
    • Memory Card Reader
    • DVI-I Input for Computer Video

    That and much more included in a 57" HDTV for < $2K back in March



    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    you know Rich, they had a system in the twenties that showed simple clips of motion, used a lamp and a spinning wheel, faded fast as the CRT took hold.
    The only thing detractors have is some mysterious element called "PQ"
    So you're using 1920's technology with 21st century technology as your analogy? That's weaker.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I think its funny that a standard of HT, mainly that a set never looks decent in a store, has been thrown out.
    Turn down everything to fifty percent, like you'd do with a CRT, including the backlight(turn it back up during bright light conditions) put your main source of illumination behind the set,
    even though there is practically no glare, and you get a great picture.
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... IMO
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And like I tell friends when the gas leaks outta their plasma (usually before the big game)
    THE BEST "PQ IS ACTUALLY HAVING A PICTURE.
    I'll bet that sits real well with your friends, just like your opinion based facts sit real well here.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Which you wont have when that "torch" of a mercury bulb dies a painfull death
    Bulbs don't feel pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    ...after a very short life
    Very subjective statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Why do you keep using that one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    As for medical use I work in a hospital, and in the ED they use xray ct for quick looks at patients, these are networked to ED doctors who veiw them on high resolution LCD
    DISPLAYS.
    MY DEPT recently got some hand me down Sony crt monitors from endoscophy.
    They are being replaced by, you guessed it, LCD monitors.
    Now we know that you don't really work for a hospital, just in a hospital. Again, I got the impression you were a Neurosurgeon.

    You're DEPT is Building Security right? A seperate organization right? That explains why you got hand-me-downs. The upcoming technology will be too valuable to the medical community to be handed down to building security. Does that make any sense?

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    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Now we know that you don't really work for a hospital, just in a hospital. Again, I got the impression you were a Neurosurgeon.

    You're DEPT is Building Security right? A seperate organization right? That explains why you got hand-me-downs. The upcoming technology will be too valuable to the medical community to be handed down to building security. Does that make any sense?
    I wonder if Pix's real name happens to be Travis Bickle? Hmmm.

    Question: am I allowed to hijack a thread that has already been semi-hijacked by the original poster?
    Last edited by PeruvianSkies; 09-27-2007 at 11:00 PM.

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