Bought Denon 2105 on Spec, Fiber Optics Question

[hershon]

After going to another 2 Stereo Places in LA (Northridge) & hearing Rotell, Pioneer & various Denon receivers, the only one I was impressed with & this may be based on total nonsence as the speakers were all different & God knows what the tone settings and audio settings were, the only one that I liked was the Denon 2105 (I preferred this to the 2805 which may be because of the speaker set up). I used "Norwegian Wood" as my reference. Again, I might have liked the other systems better if I was listening to everything under the same settings & speakers. I decided to take a chance & purchase the Denon 2105 & the Denon 1710 DVD player (the bad thing about this is it doesn't play DVD-A's but I only have about 4 of them anyway & I bought the Denon because the sales person recommended that I was best sticking to the same brand for sound quality), as I basically got $100 off as there was a store sale. I could have gotten the Denon 2105 for I'm guessing another $200 less if I bought it online, but the thing is, the store had a 30 day return policy & given everything I thought that was my best option. Once I get the system set up to my Orb speakers, I'm going to try to do as close of an immediate sound comparison with my JVC DVD receiver as I can. I'm going to hook up my second Orb set that I used in the bedroom to the Denon, so I'll be able to do a faster comparison as I'll have 2 systems hooked up in the exact same location. If I notice a significant improvement, obviously I'm going to keep the set, but if it's not significantly better in terms of sound quality, then I'm going to return everything. I'll report my results once everything is hooked up (it might take me a while to set the Denon up as there are alot of controls).

My biggest question & I definately can use some help here is, I bought a $200 Optilink 3
optic cable as the salesman said that this may affect the sound quaity. He actually recommended I buy the middle $80 model, the $200 one was the best the store carried.
I actually bought both as I figured I could return the $200 one if I don't notice a difference.
What do you recommend. Is the $200 Optlink 3 the way to go or do you know a cheaper brand that I will get as good audio quality? Any comments welcome.

[elbarono]

An optical cable is a type of digital connection. There is no 'sound' passing through the cable, just pulses of light. The pulses of light represent 1's and 0's. In order for the signal to be affected, the cable would have to be so bad that the 1's were getting mistaken for 0's, and/or vice versa. I don't think that is likely to happen with any quality cable, and I don't think a quality cable costs $200.

[hershon]

What cable would you recommend? Thanks

An optical cable is a type of digital connection. There is no 'sound' passing through the cable, just pulses of light. The pulses of light represent 1's and 0's. In order for the signal to be affected, the cable would have to be so bad that the 1's were getting mistaken for 0's, and/or vice versa. I don't think that is likely to happen with any quality cable, and I don't think a quality cable costs $200.

[drseid]

What cable would you recommend? Thanks

Quite frankly, why not just buy one of those AR Toslink cables that go for about $15 at Best Buy....? I say that because you get higher quality construction than the cheapy Toslink cables that frequently come with DVD players... Sound quality will be the same on all of them, quite frankly.

BTW, as for your salesperson's comment about all the components should be the same, as that provides optimal sound quality...? That is total BS, I am afraid. That said, as Denon makes some of the best DVD players out there, in this case it looks like the "advice" may pay off, but it won't be because of any special "advantage." The only advantage is just that Denon makes good products. :-)

---Dave

[hershon]

I may have unintentionally misquoted the salesman here- after I had paid for everything, I all of a sudden had a Beavis and Butthead flash and realized I didn't ask the salesman whether or not the Denon DVD player played DVD-A & so when I asked him he said they didn't. I then was contemplating buying another DVD player & about the only one under $250 that played DVD-A was a Panasonic. The salesman advised me for the best sound on a denon receiver, I should stick to a Denon DVD player. Given that, DVD-A isn't all that important to me, I figured I'll stick to this & as it was only about $125 with the sales discount, if I ever replaced it I wouldn't lose any sleep. So my appologies, if I didn't explain this clear enough.

I started to attach my full bedroom set of 5 Orbs to the Denon and I started setting it up a bit, for which I confess II'm not 100% sure if I did this right. As I live in an apartment building, its too late now to hear the system on the speakers. I did listen to a CD via a headphone and also played the same CD through my JVC receiver via my headphone & I didn't notice much difference, if anything my JVC was warmer. Hopefully, this doesn't mean anything as the only thing that counts is if the sound will be significantly better hearing them on the speakers. I hate to say this, and everyone is just disregarding this as it sounds like I'm brain dead, but I'm beginning to think the JVC player for my tastes produces a better sound with Orb speakers than any other expensive receiver set up. If in fact that is true, the only thing I can attribute to that is that the owners/creators of Orb, specifically recommended for the best sound of Orb speakers to use the JVC RX-31DSL DVD receiver & maybe they knew what they were talking about. I'll try to get a more objective view when I listen to things in the morning & have both the Denon & JVC cued up to play the same CD album (albeit they're both CDR's of "Rubber Soul" for uniformity). Even then, if I don't notice much difference, my statement will be qualified as perhaps I need to tweak the Denon's settings like I did the JVC.

Quite frankly, why not just buy one of those AR Toshlink cables that go for about $15 at Best Buy....? I say that because you get higher quality construction than the cheapy Toshlink cables that frequently come with DVD players... Sound quality will be the same on all of them, quite frankly.

BTW, as for your salesperson's comment about all the components should be the same, as that provides optimal sound quality...? That is total BS, I am afraid. That said, as Denon makes some of the best DVD players out there, in this case it looks like the "advice" may pay off, but it won't be beacause of any special "advantage." the only advantage is just that Denon makes good products. :-)

---Dave

[shokhead]

I may have unintentionally misquoted the salesman here- after I had paid for everything, I all of a sudden had a Beavis and Butthead flash and realized I didn't ask the salesman whether or not the Denon DVD player played DVD-A & so when I asked him he said they didn't. I then was contemplating buying another DVD player & about the only one under $250 that played DVD-A was a Panasonic. The salesman advised me for the best sound on a denon receiver, I should stick to a Denon DVD player. Given that, DVD-A isn't all that important to me, I figured I'll stick to this & as it was only about $125 with the sales discount, if I ever replaced it I wouldn't lose any sleep. So my appologies, if I didn't explain this clear enough.

I started to attach my full bedroom set of 5 Orbs to the Denon and I started setting it up a bit, for which I confess II'm not 100% sure if I did this right. As I live in an apartment building, its too late now to hear the system on the speakers. I did listen to a CD via a headphone and also played the same CD through my JVC receiver via my headphone & I didn't notice much difference, if anything my JVC was warmer. Hopefully, this doesn't mean anything as the only thing that counts is if the sound will be significantly better hearing them on the speakers. I hate to say this, and everyone is just disregarding this as it sounds like I'm brain dead, but I'm beginning to think the JVC player for my tastes produces a better sound with Orb speakers than any other expensive receiver set up. If in fact that is true, the only thing I can attribute to that is that the owners/creators of Orb, specifically recommended for the best sound of Orb speakers to use the JVC RX-31DSL DVD receiver & maybe they knew what they were talking about. I'll try to get a more objective view when I listen to things in the morning & have both the Denon & JVC cued up to play the same CD album (albeit they're both CDR's of "Rubber Soul" for uniformity). Even then, if I don't notice much difference, my statement will be qualified as perhaps I need to tweak the Denon's settings like I did the JVC.

So you got the 2105,cool,its a nice reciever. You dont judge anything with headphones except the headphones. Remind me how many other expensive reciever setups you've listened to? So they made speakers that sound best with THAT reciever? Not likly. Get a Radio Shack spl meter and setup the Denon right. Spend a buck and get a DTS music disc and enjoy how good it will sound and put the JVC in the bedroom. Those DVD-A disc's you have still might work if they are also in DTS,just get into the disc menu and choose DTS if its there. Make sure you try the 5 channel stere on the Denon,i like it alot. Hope you got a good deal on the Denon,the cheapest i've seen is 499 at GG but they did have a open box for 429,not a bad deal. Take those cables back,if you had that much to spend,you should have gotten a better DVD player with DVD-A. Just use a basic dig toslink or coax. RS has them.

[Monstrous Mike]

Quite frankly, why not just buy one of those AR Toslink cables that go for about $15 at Best Buy....? I say that because you get higher quality construction than the cheapy Toslink cables that frequently come with DVD players... Sound quality will be the same on all of them, quite frankly.

BTW, as for your salesperson's comment about all the components should be the same, as that provides optimal sound quality...? That is total BS, I am afraid. That said, as Denon makes some of the best DVD players out there, in this case it looks like the "advice" may pay off, but it won't be because of any special "advantage." The only advantage is just that Denon makes good products. :-)

---Dave

Very good comments, Dave.

I have the Panasonic DVD-A player and am very happy with it.

[royphil345]

I'd say there will be little difference in sound between brands of DVD players when the audio is hooked up digitally. My advice, get a decent quality unit with alot of nice features. I would never pay $200.00 for an optical cable. I did pay $30.00 for a glass optical cable. Many people say they hear a difference with this cable. Many others would argue that that's impossible. At least here you're getting a glass cable that sells for less than many of the plastic ones. http://stores.ebay.com/24-7-MINIDISC...eNameZl2QQtZkm

I wouldn't be in such a hurry to upgrade your system. You could probably get sound that is a touch more open from a different brand of receiver. The difference will be slight and might not even sound good to your ears or in your room. Probably no need for a "flagship" receiver because the ORBs seem like they shouldn't be too difficult to drive. I don't know why it's so tempting to buy new stuff for your system when you're pretty satisfied with it the way it is. I do that too!!!

[Geoffcin]

After going to another 2 Stereo Places in LA (Northridge) & hearing Rotell, Pioneer & various Denon receivers, the only one I was impressed with & this may be based on total nonsence as the speakers were all different & God knows what the tone settings and audio settings were, the only one that I liked was the Denon 2105 (I preferred this to the 2805 which may be because of the speaker set up). I used "Norwegian Wood" as my reference. Again, I might have liked the other systems better if I was listening to everything under the same settings & speakers. I decided to take a chance & purchase the Denon 2105 & the Denon 1710 DVD player (the bad thing about this is it doesn't play DVD-A's but I only have about 4 of them anyway & I bought the Denon because the sales person recommended that I was best sticking to the same brand for sound quality), as I basically got $100 off as there was a store sale. I could have gotten the Denon 2105 for I'm guessing another $200 less if I bought it online, but the thing is, the store had a 30 day return policy & given everything I thought that was my best option. Once I get the system set up to my Orb speakers, I'm going to try to do as close of an immediate sound comparison with my JVC DVD receiver as I can. I'm going to hook up my second Orb set that I used in the bedroom to the Denon, so I'll be able to do a faster comparison as I'll have 2 systems hooked up in the exact same location. If I notice a significant improvement, obviously I'm going to keep the set, but if it's not significantly better in terms of sound quality, then I'm going to return everything. I'll report my results once everything is hooked up (it might take me a while to set the Denon up as there are alot of controls).

My biggest question & I definately can use some help here is, I bought a $200 Optilink 3
optic cable as the salesman said that this may affect the sound quaity. He actually recommended I buy the middle $80 model, the $200 one was the best the store carried.
I actually bought both as I figured I could return the $200 one if I don't notice a difference.
What do you recommend. Is the $200 Optlink 3 the way to go or do you know a cheaper brand that I will get as good audio quality? Any comments welcome.

After that confusing demo that you did. It's almost impossible to test receivers for sound quality in a setting like that. Just to make you feel betting I've been unable to hear any significant difference in ANY receiver at the same price point. Heck, it's even hard to pick out the sound of a flagship receiver from a $700 unit. (that I HAVE done)

I am a little surprised that the Denon DVD player doesn't do DVD-Audio. Denon makes some outstanding DVD players, and I think it's a mistake on their part not to include DVD-Audio on their lower priced units.

If I were you I would return the $200 toslink cable AND the Denon DVD player. Tell them you want to exchange them for a BETTER Denon DVD player, one that does have DVD-Audio. I'm listening to DVD-Audio right now, and it's superior to CD sound in EVERY way.
A good unit like the Denon will probably use to 24/192khz DAC's for upsampling on regular CD's too, so you will get even better CD sound with a DVD-Audio capable unit.
I can't stress enough how much a quality source makes for better sound.

[hershon]

I've started another thread on this as quite frankly for my Orb speakers the sound a JVC DVD 500 watts receiver- RX-DV31SL, produces superior sound quality for my tastes, whether people don't like me saying this or think I'm an idiot, I don't care, I know what my ears hear.

After that confusing demo that you did. It's almost impossible to test receivers for sound quality in a setting like that. Just to make you feel betting I've been unable to hear any significant difference in ANY receiver at the same price point. Heck, it's even hard to pick out the sound of a flagship receiver from a $700 unit. (that I HAVE done)

I am a little surprised that the Denon DVD player doesn't do DVD-Audio. Denon makes some outstanding DVD players, and I think it's a mistake on their part not to include DVD-Audio on their lower priced units.

If I were you I would return the $200 toslink cable AND the Denon DVD player. Tell them you want to exchange them for a BETTER Denon DVD player, one that does have DVD-Audio. I'm listening to DVD-Audio right now, and it's superior to CD sound in EVERY way.
A good unit like the Denon will probably use to 24/192khz DAC's for upsampling on regular CD's too, so you will get even better CD sound with a DVD-Audio capable unit.
I can't stress enough how much a quality source makes for better sound.

[shokhead]

Well then,why did you buy something else? I guess i forgot why. If it was for your bedroom,imo you overbought. You know,watts isnt what its all about. I guess you now have a room full of good A/V stuff.

[hershon]

Well then,why did you buy something else? I guess i forgot why. If it was for your bedroom,imo you overbought. You know,watts isnt what its all about. I guess you now have a room full of good A/V stuff.

I bought (& returned) the Denon2105 because quite frankly I got greedy & didn't realise what a good system I had- I've done the same thing with women and it has backfired on me. In this case, as I said, Iwas very happy with the sound quality of my JVC receiver when listening to my Orb's but thought I might even be able to get even better sound by improving on my receiver. The end result is, for my Orb Audio system, the Denon 2105, does not improve the quality for my ears from my JVC system and therefore I returned it. I can only speak for myself. Maybe someone else would hear the 2 systems differently through the Orb speakers, but I've got to do what is best for me.

[N. Abstentia]

I just find it very odd that you cheapened out on everything EXCEPT the one thing you should have cheapend out on. You paid $200 for a $10 optical cable but got a substandard DVD player! I've never been a fan of Denon players, you can get a better player for less money.

[Lensman]

After going to another 2 Stereo Places in LA (Northridge) & hearing Rotell, Pioneer & various Denon receivers, the only one I was impressed with & this may be based on total nonsence as the speakers were all different & God knows what the tone settings and audio settings were, the only one that I liked was the Denon 2105 (I preferred this to the 2805 which may be because of the speaker set up). I used "Norwegian Wood" as my reference. Again, I might have liked the other systems better if I was listening to everything under the same settings & speakers. I decided to take a chance & purchase the Denon 2105 & the Denon 1710 DVD player (the bad thing about this is it doesn't play DVD-A's but I only have about 4 of them anyway & I bought the Denon because the sales person recommended that I was best sticking to the same brand for sound quality), as I basically got $100 off as there was a store sale. I could have gotten the Denon 2105 for I'm guessing another $200 less if I bought it online, but the thing is, the store had a 30 day return policy & given everything I thought that was my best option. Once I get the system set up to my Orb speakers, I'm going to try to do as close of an immediate sound comparison with my JVC DVD receiver as I can. I'm going to hook up my second Orb set that I used in the bedroom to the Denon, so I'll be able to do a faster comparison as I'll have 2 systems hooked up in the exact same location. If I notice a significant improvement, obviously I'm going to keep the set, but if it's not significantly better in terms of sound quality, then I'm going to return everything. I'll report my results once everything is hooked up (it might take me a while to set the Denon up as there are alot of controls).

My biggest question & I definately can use some help here is, I bought a $200 Optilink 3
optic cable as the salesman said that this may affect the sound quaity. He actually recommended I buy the middle $80 model, the $200 one was the best the store carried.
I actually bought both as I figured I could return the $200 one if I don't notice a difference.
What do you recommend. Is the $200 Optlink 3 the way to go or do you know a cheaper brand that I will get as good audio quality? Any comments welcome.

I hope the 2105 lives accomplishes what you hope. It's a great buy in the Denon line and, despite the apparant watts-per-channel rating, actually puts out significantly more power than your current JVC. Before you get into comparing them:

1. I'm with everyone else in urging you to return that $200 optical cable. As Elbarono points out, the signal through that cable is ones and zeros. In addition to the ones and zeros that represent the music, the signal also transmits a parity bit for error correction. This essentially means the cable will either work perfectly or not at all. Thus any cheap cable will work just as well as long as the receiver produces sound. Like any cable, good connectors help keep the ends from breaking or pulling off under use/abuse, so the expense of $15 for an AR cable or perhaps even a $30 Monster cable can be justified. But $200? No.

2. Again, as others have said, when you return the cable also return the DVD player and get a better one. The reason? Aside from the DVD-A issue, the 1710 you purchased is not equipped with the Faroudja scaling chip that would give you a better picture on your HDTV set. The 1910 which does is only $80 more. You could also go with Shokhead's original recommendation of the 5-disc 1815.

3. Understand that in addition to the optical cable, you will also want to connect analog RCA cables to the DVD player for listening to music. This way you can use the superior Burr-Brown DACs in the player. If you only listen to the player through the optical cable, the sound will be no better than that of any cheap player you connect to the 2105 because you'll be using the receiver's DACs.

4. Properly setting up of the Denon is critical to the quality of sound you'll hear from it. Fortunately the 2105 has an auto setup feature with microphone to help you. This makes things a lot easier. Just be sure to read and follow the instructions carefully.