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  1. #1
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    Question Back on track... more basics questions

    I've got my living room back now so I've resumed my ideal HT setup quest and I've got a lot of basic questions.

    For starters, where should I have the volume control on the subwoofer set to? I'm thinking mid way and then use the receiver's level setting to control volume, no? (I have this same dilemma with my computer speakers and I never know what the general rule of thumb is.) I have the sub's crossover set to 60Hz with the same setting at the receiver, and the speaker selection at the receiver set to small speakers.

    Also, my center channel right now unfortunately has to sit inside the TV stand (bad), about 6" above the floor (bad). I don't know where the EQ settings should be but I've got all frequencies set to 0 (bad). The manual says to adjust the settings so the CC has similar tonal qualities to the front L & R, but my problem is I have high frequency loss in my left ear and I'm not able to acheive what sounds like equal tone across the... well, inverted arc (I realize my brain compensates for this to a certain extent). What would be optimum for this current arrangement. I've ordered what I think will be a decent short-term solution to get the CC above the TV with a wall-mount bracket from Parts Express, but because the distance of the TV from the wall is 21", I'm probably going to have to mount it pretty high then tilt it towards the sweet spot in my room. That's a different subject for another time though. Thanks.

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    There is nothing wrong with having your center speaker 6 inches off the floor,in fact that should be better than the other alternative that you describe.Mine sits about 8 inches off the ground and i get great results.However if it inside a case do two things,first make sure that it is all the way to the front of the shelf and second tilt it upwards towards the seating position.A dedicated stand on the floor,like i have would be a better solution than mounting it up high.
    With your sub question,there is no rule of thumb.I am not familiar with Yamaha recievers but bass levels have as much to do with your room as anything else.Make sure the sub is in the right spot first,then use trial and error with your settings.

    bill
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  3. #3
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    GET thee to a radio shack and get a level meter, follow the instructions and set all of your speakers at 70 db.
    And why cant you mount your CC on your set?
    If its front ported being inside a cabinet wont be bad, but I beleive B&w rear port their speakers. You can get a marble planter stand or a CC stand (they make those), its not really a problem.
    You havta set your sub vol by ear, turn it up until it distorts, some like a remote vol on sub so they can turn up bass on low bass stuff, and down on high bass stuff, but I think if its set right it will sound right, I had a B&w "mini" sub, great on music but stank on video
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    GET thee to a radio shack and get a level meter, follow the instructions and set all of your speakers at 70 db.
    I have one here at work that I'm going to use soon. The 1,000,000 times asked question though is... "what's the best test DVD"
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And why cant you mount your CC on your set?
    I guess I'm just anal about anything touching or hanging on my new investment. This wall mount bracket I ordered probably won't project far out enough to make it flush with the TV screen (I know, I should've asked before I ordered it) so if it doesn't, I'll follow yours and other's advice and buy something that sits in front of the TV stand. I've seen here in the pictures section where people put their CC in front of their TV stand; it seems out of place to me but I'll look for something that fits with the "Traditional" theme I'm applying to the HT room.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    If its front ported being inside a cabinet wont be bad, but I beleive B&w rear port their speakers. You can get a marble planter stand or a CC stand (they make those), its not really a problem.
    The CC IS front ported, so I guess the advice I read for someone who had a similar dilema didn't really apply to front-ported speakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    You havta set your sub vol by ear, turn it up until it distorts, some like a remote vol on sub so they can turn up bass on low bass stuff, and down on high bass stuff, but I think if its set right it will sound right, I had a B&w "mini" sub, great on music but stank on video
    LOL. This sub is definately no mini. The suggestion you gave me in the other thread about having a friend move it around... none of my friends are strong enough 'cause they're all girls!!!

  5. #5
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas


    LOL. This sub is definately no mini. The suggestion you gave me in the other thread about having a friend move it around... none of my friends are strong enough 'cause they're all girls!!!
    Another way is to put the sub where you will be sitting. Then you can crawl around the room to where it sounds best. Then put the sub there. This way you only have to move it twice.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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    You're just making fun of me GM. I'll let the girls crawl around on their hands and knees.

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    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    I 2nd the use of an SPL meter and you can use the test tones generated by your AVR. You should get some pretty decent results.

    If you do decide to go up top with your CC, I picked up a set of these for $20 and was able to get a sweet angle toward the SS, plus they look very nice too. Nothing else would work and my CC would keep slowing sliding foward

    I believe they also can be used to angle upward also.

  8. #8
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    You're just making fun of me GM. I'll let the girls crawl around on their hands and knees.
    Huh? Now now. Not all of my posts are jokes. Just 99.9% of them. But I meant what I said this time. It's a trick that I've seen others suggest over the years. But I do like your idea of getting the girls to get down on all 4's. That's thinking with a head.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  9. #9
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    I've got my living room back now so I've resumed my ideal HT setup quest and I've got a lot of basic questions.

    For starters, where should I have the volume control on the subwoofer set to? I'm thinking mid way and then use the receiver's level setting to control volume, no? (I have this same dilemma with my computer speakers and I never know what the general rule of thumb is.) I have the sub's crossover set to 60Hz with the same setting at the receiver, and the speaker selection at the receiver set to small speakers.
    I'd set the receiver at "0" an adjust the plate amp dial accordingly...simply because I trust the plate amps gain more than the voltage strength from some receivers, especially if more than 1 sub is connected, but really I doubt it matters much. I just use the receiver LFE volume setting to make quick minor adjustments
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Also, my center channel right now unfortunately has to sit inside the TV stand (bad), about 6" above the floor (bad). I don't know where the EQ settings should be but I've got all frequencies set to 0 (bad). The manual says to adjust the settings so the CC has similar tonal qualities to the front L & R, but my problem is I have high frequency loss in my left ear and I'm not able to acheive what sounds like equal tone across the... well, inverted arc (I realize my brain compensates for this to a certain extent). What would be optimum for this current arrangement. I've ordered what I think will be a decent short-term solution to get the CC above the TV with a wall-mount bracket from Parts Express, but because the distance of the TV from the wall is 21", I'm probably going to have to mount it pretty high then tilt it towards the sweet spot in my room. That's a different subject for another time though. Thanks.
    I'd probably leave the CC in the TV stand 6" off the floor (not as bad as you think), but try to make the front of the speaker at least flush with front of the TV screen (so it's not "further behind than the front of the screen). Most CC's assume immediate placement next to a TV or wall anyway so I dont' think you'll suffer much sound quality loss...maybe use some rubber bumpers to "tilt" the front of the speaker up so it's aiming at you?

    As for EQ'ing. I dunno, just experiment I guess if you don't have an "auto-eq" setup. Or leave it at zero just accept it, how bad is it?

  10. #10
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    GMichael is right,as usual,that is the best way to determine the prime location for your sub.Location is key with getting good clean bass.Try that test you will be suprised,i was first time i tried it.

    bill
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  11. #11
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Huh? Now now. Not all of my posts are jokes. Just 99.9% of them. But I meant what I said this time. It's a trick that I've seen others suggest over the years. But I do like your idea of getting the girls to get down on all 4's. That's thinking with a head.
    100% are jokes, trust me
    I once got a "floating shelf" at home depot, a black slab that sticks out from the wall,
    set my cc above my old panny with it, loked great if not the optimal placement
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
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  12. #12
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    Well, as I suspected, the wall-mount thingy comes up short (by 6 inches), so I'll consider some of the suggestions here and also look for a stand while I'm furniture shopping. Thanks all.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    STAND???
    The one you have now is really nice, if it aint broke dont fix it.
    Concentrate instead on finding someone who can put a "piano" finish on those delish
    beemers of yours
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    STAND???
    The one you have now is really nice, if it aint broke dont fix it.
    Concentrate instead on finding someone who can put a "piano" finish on those delish
    beemers of yours
    Maybe I should've said pedestal (Strictly for the CC) I know, just leave well enough alone right? But yeah, I really don't like the Black Ash finish on the speaker cabinets. In their production years the 804's were also offered in a Walnut finish and Rosewood, which I'll bet looked really great. But for now I've got bigger issues still to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    If you do decide to go up top with your CC, I picked up a set of these for $20 and was able to get a sweet angle toward the SS, plus they look very nice too. Nothing else would work and my CC would keep slowing sliding foward

    I believe they also can be used to angle upward also.
    Well, I decided after some convincing here to keep the CC below the TV and it's now pointed upwards about 10" from the floor, propped up and out from under the top surface of the stand by a couple of shims. The bad thing is the speaker could fall off the shims at any time. I can't tell from the pictures of the MoPADS how they work. In the "Pros" column, it says they have variable pitch, which tells me they will be able to point the speaker, hopefully upwards. But they need to also provide stability due to the fact that the speaker will need to sit pretty far out off the vertically adjustable shelf it's sitting on. They have an expensive price tag IMO, but if they can accomplish this, I'd be willing to bite the bullet. Thoughts?

  16. #16
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Well, I decided after some convincing here to keep the CC below the TV and it's now pointed upwards about 10" from the floor, propped up and out from under the top surface of the stand by a couple of shims. The bad thing is the speaker could fall off the shims at any time. I can't tell from the pictures of the MoPADS how they work. In the "Pros" column, it says they have variable pitch, which tells me they will be able to point the speaker, hopefully upwards. But they need to also provide stability due to the fact that the speaker will need to sit pretty far out off the vertically adjustable shelf it's sitting on. They have an expensive price tag IMO, but if they can accomplish this, I'd be willing to bite the bullet. Thoughts?
    If your using these for your CC you only need 1 set (2 pads) for 19.99. I purchased mine from here. The angle can be adjusted by using a second piece of foam that is used with each pad to acheive a higher angle. I assume the pads are mainly used for angleing downward, but I don't see any reason why they couldn't be used in reverse. My C-C3 is pretty big and would always slip foward no matter what I tried to angle it with because I needed such a steep angle. These worked perfect and they look nice. If your trying to install in a tight spot, be careful because the raise your CC 1.25" as stated in the review. Here's a side view pic.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Back on track... more basics questions-cc.jpg  
    Last edited by L.J.; 06-28-2007 at 05:52 AM.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular Blue Meanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    I have the sub's crossover set to 60Hz with the same setting at the receiver, and the speaker selection at the receiver set to small speakers.
    The way I understand it, the sub's crossover should be set as high as possible, to remove it from the equation. Rely on the receiver's crossover.

    Jeff
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Well, I decided after some convincing here to keep the CC below the TV and it's now pointed upwards about 10" from the floor, propped up and out from under the top surface of the stand by a couple of shims. The bad thing is the speaker could fall off the shims at any time. I can't tell from the pictures of the MoPADS how they work. In the "Pros" column, it says they have variable pitch, which tells me they will be able to point the speaker, hopefully upwards. But they need to also provide stability due to the fact that the speaker will need to sit pretty far out off the vertically adjustable shelf it's sitting on. They have an expensive price tag IMO, but if they can accomplish this, I'd be willing to bite the bullet. Thoughts?
    What i did was buy a soft rubber ball of the proper size,cut it in half and use the halfs to prop up my center.The speaker is heavy so it compresses the rubber and sticks in place.
    Cost about 3 bucks and 15 minutes time.

    bill
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  19. #19
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    I'll post up a pic ASAP so I can show how far out on the shelf the speaker has to sit in order to clear the lip of the top shelf where the TV sits. I have pictures posted in the member gallery that might show what I'm talking about. The MoPADS' elevation wouldn't be a problem since I still have one set of holes left for the shelf to be adjusted down, but the rubber ball idea wouldn't work because I need to project the speaker out

    Probably another case of me making things more complicated than they need to be, but that's me!

  20. #20
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    I'll post up a pic ASAP so I can show how far out on the shelf the speaker has to sit in order to clear the lip of the top shelf where the TV sits. I have pictures posted in the member gallery that might show what I'm talking about. The MoPADS' elevation wouldn't be a problem since I still have one set of holes left for the shelf to be adjusted down, but the rubber ball idea wouldn't work because I need to project the speaker out

    Probably another case of me making things more complicated than they need to be, but that's me!
    I can understand why you wanna make things more complicated than nessesary, being a dlp fan
    Home depot has a floating shelf, uses two metal poles stuck to the studs, and the black
    shelf has two holes in the back, will hold a CC pretty good, just drill a hole in it for the speaker wire.
    It'll hold about fifty pounds or so, and dont worry about hearing loss in one ear, just set your levels from the listening postition and your set.
    Worry about speaker placement isnt really warranted anymore, DD allows you to set seperate levels to compensate, unlike prologic plain where the backs shared a channel
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  21. #21
    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Hey Rich, I edited my post and added a pic. I'm sure there may be cheaper solutions but these work great for my situation and was well worth the price.

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    Thanks L.J.

    That makes the picture in my head crystal clear now. Yes, I don't see any reason either why they can't be used to tilt the CC up, and $20 bucks is pretty cheap so I'll get to it. They show on the SameDay site a weight limit of 100 lbs, so I'm assuming I'll be able to slide them forward some to get the tweeter clear of the top shelf overhang.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I can understand why you wanna make things more complicated than nessesary, being a dlp fan
    I can always count on you can't I pix?
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelsplease
    Home depot has a floating shelf, uses two metal poles stuck to the studs, and the black
    shelf has two holes in the back, will hold a CC pretty good, just drill a hole in it for the speaker wire.
    It'll hold about fifty pounds or so, and dont worry about hearing loss in one ear, just set your levels from the listening postition and your set.
    So now you're telling me to go back up top with the speaker? You guys already convinced me to leave it underneath and point it up. I already wasted ~$30. on a swivel stand that fastens to the wall, but like I said it didn't project the speaker far out enough to even it with the TV screen, so no more of that type of option.
    Last edited by Rich-n-Texas; 06-28-2007 at 07:20 AM.

  24. #24
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    I can always count on you can't I pix?

    So now you're telling me to go back up top with the speaker? You guys already convinced me to leave it underneath and point it up. I already wasted ~$30. on a swivel stand that fastens to the wall, but like I said it didn't project the speaker far out enough to even it with the TV screen, so no more of that type of option.
    I'm third behind death and taxes
    Why is it important to get your CC even with your screen?
    There are some that will tell you your CC needs to be even with your l+r's, your CC needs to be a certain way etc, and its just so much fiddle faddle when you can set your level to compensate.
    If a spl meter reads 70db (dolby reference) from a certain channel it doesnt matter if the speaker is sitting on the moon, it should sound okay.
    And imaging is gonna be a prob with you with hearing loss, anyway, somethimes a ear infection flares up and I lose stereo (or my lease, turning up one channel to compensate)
    DD is awfully forgiving, a decent soundfield is not nearly so hard to produce as some would have you think
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  25. #25
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    OF course you want to point those tweeters in your general direction to get some of that great B&W imaging.
    I've done some police work (no white collar stuff so dont worry) and you would be surprized to see hpw much changing your source object changes how the destination turns out. Raising your CC with a few coins (or lowering) can change the sweet spot
    by several feet.
    And if anybody paid 19.95 for that airconditioner foam, you got ripped, somebody cut it to order and is making a fortune
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
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