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  1. #1
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    HD-DVD: Are We Gonna Have to Replace Our DVD Libraries, Fellas?

    With the advent of high definition video disc on the horizon, and while many home theater enthusiasts have already slowed down their purchasing ---- or stopped altogether ----- of standard DVD titles (I have not because I simply cannot live without cinema as a hobby), what is going to happen to the future of this home theater hobby? Are there going to be so many titles released at the same time, if HD DVD succeeds, that we are going to HAVE to replace most if not all the titles in our DVD collections we have now?

    I have to say, that is going to be FINANCIALLY IMPOSSIBLE for someone like me, and I am not even sure if the technology is going to improve some titles way beyond what HD DVD promises in terms of audio and video quality; are any of you guys preparing to replace your ENTIRE DVD collection if and when this format arrives? Is it REALLY going to be that good of an improvement? Will it be the SAME kind of jump, say, as going from VHS to DVD, or it wont be THAT noticeable?

    I just dont think I can re-purchase the massive collection of standard DVDs I have gathered already and spent just crazy loot on; when and if HD DVD arrives, will the hardware be "backward compatible" to be able to play our standard DVDs if we want as well, with improved clarity on THOSE standard discs?

    I fear that the more I keep buying standard DVD, the closer Im getting to the whole expensive collection being completely obsolete, and Im going to have to replace that whole library with HD DVD, as I did going from VHS to DVD, and THAT was a VERY EXPENSIVE STRETCH for me......is it going to be THAT big of a jump, from DVD to HD DVD, as VHS was to DVD?

    I mean, I havent even put a SMALL DENT in my DVD WANT LIST, which just continues to grow......and here comes HD DVD......what do we do?

  2. #2
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    Here's some information i've read in various articles. Anyone- please correct me if i'm inaccurate. thanks.

    *The quality from regular DVD to HD/Blu-ray will be noticeable. Some people say it will be the same difference between DVDs now and HDTV. I'm not sure how much of a change that is since I'm still in the SDTV world.
    *The current DVDs will be compatible with the new HD/Blu-ray media players. However, if you want HD quality, you will need to purchase the DVD in the HD/Blu-ray format.
    *Not sure how quickly HD/Blu-ray DVDs will be produced
    *I read many different articles stating it will be a long long while (few years) for the HD/Blu-ray prices to be competitive. Not sure if that's accurate, but I just think about any new technology like HDTVs- the prices have dropped a lot, but still not as affordable as SDTVs.

    I'm looking forward to others' responses- again, please correct my info if necessary.

    Thanks.
    Eric

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    I'm curious as to how this will look different. My regular DVD's I watch on my HD TV look great anyway via a Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player & I can't imagine them looking better, but I'll keep an open mind to check this out.

    For HD TV, there is a night and day difference between watch HD TV, I just can't imagine there would be the same difference in movies. Hope they do DVD Shrink the HD version!
    The guys who put that on the web for free ought to get a Nobel Award!

  4. #4
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    "I'm curious as to how this will look different."

    THATS what Im worried about --- WILL HD DVD look SO MUCH BETTER that we need to replace EVERY TITLE, if that happens, in our current collections?

    "My regular DVD's I watch on my HD TV look great anyway via a Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player & I can't imagine them looking better, but I'll keep an open mind to check this out."

    Well, I do have some discs in my collection which COULD DEFINITELY look better --- but Im not sure if any of these are even going to GET a high definition remaster or if the remaster will make any noticeable change to the print quality ---- I mean, if PREDATOR comes out on HD DVD, will it look LESS GRAINY than the version thats out now?

    P.S. Did you take your name from the character the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on?

  5. #5
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    They will all look better, eventually to the point where if your favorite films exist in the superior format, you will not want to watch them any other way. The only saving grace is that many old, or cult, films might not make it to HD for a long time, if ever (as in my case), and you won't have to worry about spending the money. But then you may well start driving yourself crazy wishing that they would. It took a long time for me to reconcile to the fact that many of my faves on LD never made it to DVD (Criterion didn't, or couldn't, get the licensing, for example).

    Ed

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the info, Eric...

    "The quality from regular DVD to HD/Blu-ray will be noticeable."

    Oh boy.....what I didnt want to suspect because it may mean replacing an entire DVD collection.......

    "The current DVDs will be compatible with the new HD/Blu-ray media players. However, if you want HD quality, you will need to purchase the DVD in the HD/Blu-ray format."

    Figured as much; so the new HD DVD decks wont improve STANDARD DVD looks at ALL?

    "Not sure how quickly HD/Blu-ray DVDs will be produced"

    Do we have ANY information on when ANY of these are supposed to hit market?

  7. #7
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    "They will all look better, eventually to the point where if your favorite films exist in the superior format, you will not want to watch them any other way."

    Oh boy.....not what I wanted to hear ----- for selfish, economic problem reasons! Are they going to look TREMENDOUSLY BETTER than DVD thats out now? I mean are we talking a jump from VHS to DVD quality here? I dont know how to justify re-buying my entire catalog......I simply wont be able to......

    "The only saving grace is that many old, or cult, films might not make it to HD for a long time, if ever (as in my case), and you won't have to worry about spending the money."

    Well, as amazing as a saving grace this is, I HOPE there are MORE saving graces that will allow us to hold on to our existing DVD libraries.....

  8. #8
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    From what I have read is that the jump from DVD to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray will not be as noticeable as when it went from VHS to DVD.

    That being said I'm sure that there will be some poorly made HD-DVD discs at first that you can not see a difference. For example some of the first run dvd's look horrible compared to the re-re-mastered versions put out today. The best example I have is Hunt for the Red October. My friend bought this dvd when it first came out, when I put this dvd on my hdtv using progessive scan it looked like I was watching VHS. Fast forward a few years and I saw a newer remastered version and it looked great.

    I would say as a whole you would not need to replace all of your dvd's to HD-DVD's because a 480P disc made really well can look better than a poorly made 1080i/720p. Also as with the original DVD's it may take a little while for the to remaster the dvd's to a point that it will look much better than 480p. And here is the real kicker, with 1080P reaching the market eventually there will be 1080p discs, so do you wait until then or jump out early and buy the hd-dvd right away.

    Also for me I only plan to repurchase those titles that are visually spectacular. No reason to get the hd-dvd version of a movie like "school of rock" as it still looks good on dvd. Just my opinions. However movies like star wars will be repurchased.

    I love technology but, the industry as a whole needs to settle on a standard and stick with it. It just seems that the change is coming faster and faster. Now I love the change as far as my computer goes and the small peripherals, but when I spent $3500 on a tv about 3 1/2 years ago and I'm told I might not be able to run hd-dvd it really pisses me off.

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  9. #9
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    "Jumps" are relative. When DVD was announced, many LD aficianados doubted whether a popular medium, even one with better specs than our beloved LD, could possibly be handled well enough to dethrone a format that was pretty much confined to a bunch of slap-happy enthusiasts. Since DVD was slated to be a mass medium, would the providers be interested in maximizing video quality as much as the LD people were? Although the jump from LD to DVD was certainly not on the order of the one from VHS to LD, it made quite an impact on the LD market. If it had not run LD out of business purely on marketing grounds, LD would have died because of the mass exodus of its once-devotees to the DVD format, which, from the very beginning, surpassed it in every way, despite the existence of some lousy transfers, or of films that deteriorated too much to showcase the new potential. A format is as good as its best, not its worst.

    We are now adjusted to a new video reality, which is based on the jump from analog and digital NTSC and ED DVD to a whole new standard. Does anyone dare to dispute the obvious superiority of HDTV over everything else? If so, check out the stations that film and broadcast in HD (like DiscoveryHD). Film is an inherently hi def medium. It has the potential to look much better on disk than on TV ( a lot of films have already been mastered in HD but plastered on DVD as 480). I respectfully disagree that the visual impact of high def DVD introduction will pale in comparison to that of DVD as we know it now. In fact, I don't believe that they are comparable situations.

    Ed

  10. #10
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    "From what I have read is that the jump from DVD to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray will not be as noticeable as when it went from VHS to DVD."

    Thank God......some hopeful news........

    "That being said I'm sure that there will be some poorly made HD-DVD discs at first that you can not see a difference. For example some of the first run dvd's look horrible compared to the re-re-mastered versions put out today."

    VERY VERY TRUE ---- and if you have ever read any of my DVD reviews, Warner Brothers seems to be the biggest victim of this of all the studios.......

    "The best example I have is Hunt for the Red October. My friend bought this dvd when it first came out, when I put this dvd on my hdtv using progessive scan it looked like I was watching VHS. Fast forward a few years and I saw a newer remastered version and it looked great."

    Agreed; the new version of HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER with the added DTS track was a big improvement over Paramount's first release; but is THIS what is going to continually happen with HD DVD, too? We are going to have to wait for REMASTERED VERSIONS of HIGH DEFINITION titles? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS TECHNOLOGY then?

    "I would say as a whole you would not need to replace all of your dvd's to HD-DVD's because a 480P disc made really well can look better than a poorly made 1080i/720p."

    Ahhhhhhhh......some comfort......okay......

    "Also as with the original DVD's it may take a little while for the to remaster the dvd's to a point that it will look much better than 480p. And here is the real kicker, with 1080P reaching the market eventually there will be 1080p discs, so do you wait until then or jump out early and buy the hd-dvd right away."

    Oh boy.....can this be confirmed though because Im losing hair here.....lol.....there will be a SOFTWARE STANDARD that is going to EXCEED HD DVD's FIRST RELEASE? Oh no.....when does it END?

    "Also for me I only plan to repurchase those titles that are visually spectacular. No reason to get the hd-dvd version of a movie like "school of rock" as it still looks good on dvd. Just my opinions. However movies like star wars will be repurchased."

    Good point......perhaps titles that are ABSOLUTELY necessary in HD DVD should be purchased, like you said, Star Wars or perhaps Star Trek.......

    "I love technology but, the industry as a whole needs to settle on a standard and stick with it. It just seems that the change is coming faster and faster. Now I love the change as far as my computer goes and the small peripherals, but when I spent $3500 on a tv about 3 1/2 years ago and I'm told I might not be able to run hd-dvd it really pisses me off."

    Tell me about it......this whole friggin hobby thats supposed to be fun is beginning to piss me off and turn me off because I feel like I cant "keep on top of" all the new emerging technologies; I mean, like I said, I havent even put a DENT in my REGULAR DVD want list, and here comes new formats like wildfire......

    Thanks for the input, Greg!

  11. #11
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    "Film is an inherently hi def medium. It has the potential to look much better on disk than on TV ( a lot of films have already been mastered in HD but plastered on DVD as 480)."

    Yes, this I know Ed, as on the back of many Columbia/TriStar DVDs, the transfer says "MASTERED IN HIGH DEFINITION".....but are we getting that high definition "look" by playing these DVDs back on our regular DVD players now without HD DVD decks?

    "I respectfully disagree that the visual impact of high def DVD introduction will pale in comparison to that of DVD as we know it now. In fact, I don't believe that they are comparable situations."

    So, what are you saying? I dont think anyone in here was even attempting to suggest HD DVD will look WORSE than DVD --- unless you are referring to the comments that first-pressing HD DVD will have the same problems DVD had when they first came out, which I agree with you on that I DONT BELIEVE that will happen.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    No, you don't get a specifically hi def look when you play anything mastered in hi def at non-hi def resolutions, but you might get a more elusive benefit as a kind of trickle down.

    My other point is that the visual impact of hi def DVD on our current video world will not somehow be smaller than the impact of DVD on the VHS world, if the two impacts are even measureable on the same scale. The terrain has changed dramatically since VHS fell, economically as well as techonologically. Those who care will be very excited about the look of hi def DVD, as were those who cared about the first wave of DVD. I don't believe that the extent of the jump, as measured in scan lines (or pixels), has anything to do it. And the truth is, if it did--that is, if hi def DVD's impact is to be dependent on improvement in measured resolution alone--then the impact of hi def DVD over ED DVD stands to be greater than the impact of DVD over VHS, because the change in resolution is even greater.

    I'm done with this topic. I'm beginning not to understand myself.

    Ed
    Last edited by edtyct; 07-15-2005 at 12:29 PM. Reason: let me amend that last sentence

  13. #13
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    I'm not replacing my DVD's because they are good enough of a format to please me and because it's what THEY want. I belive THEY already have another format but THEY will wait until THEY have got more of our money before THEY release it. Super Duper HD DVD or something like that.
    Look & Listen

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    "No, you don't get a specifically hi def look when you play anything mastered in hi def at non-hi def resolutions, but you might get a more elusive benefit as a kind of trickle down."

    So, is that why the DVD studios market these as "MASTERED IN HIGH DEF" as just some kind of marketing ploy? If we're just getting a trickled down improvement in quality, would these "mastered in high def" DVDs play back better on HD DVD decks when they come out, or does it have more to do with the DISPLAYS were watching them on?

    "My other point is that the visual impact of hi def DVD on our current video world will not somehow be smaller than the impact of DVD on the VHS world, if the two impacts are even measureable on the same scale. The terrain has changed dramatically since VHS fell, economically as well as techonologically. Those who care will be as excited about the look of hi def DVD as they were about the first wave of DVD. I don't believe that the jump in quality has anything to do with it."

    So, are you saying the LOOK of HD DVD ---- which was my main concern ---- will not be, in your opinion, AS DRAMATIC a change as everyone is expecting? What Im concerned with here is that HD DVD is going to make out standard DVDs we watch now as bad looking as VHS looks to us now-------will it be THAT much of a difference? I wont be able to justify buying my whole DVD collection all over again.......

  15. #15
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Okay, one more time. "Mastered in high def" might have some marketing ploy about it, in the same sense that loudspeakers, headphones, TV antennas, etc. were marketed as "digital ready" when "digital" was novel and "all the rage." But the truth is that the people who manufacture this equipment keep improving it. Hi def mastering is now the state of the art, and it carries improvements, some you probably could understand off the cuff and some you couldn't. It isn't all just a conspiracy to take your money. Knowledge and know-how keep evolving; the culture and the economy don't always keep up. You may want to dig your heels in the sand for one reason or another and say, "I'm stopping here. Everything that's offered to me from now on is just larceny." But that's an arbitrary position. Why didn't you say that during the VHS day, which, to some people, was just fine and dandy--until the world, and they, changed in spite of the particular moment in time that they decided was a proper conclusion? It ain't gonna stand still for you forever; even in utopia, people and things will change. Somehow, we'll need an economy and culture that supports the fact that life keeps plunging forward, whether you choose, or are able, to buy into everything that progresses or not. But I guarantee that the new things will not come without some price, even if it isn't in dollars and cents, and that eventually all of your lines in the sand will wash away.

    Ed

  16. #16
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    There is alot of speculation about the benefits of HD-DVD, but very few have really seen demos. I have seen demo's of 1080i which is HD-DVD resolution, and its benefits are easily seen when compared to 480i or 480P. IMO it does compare to the LD to DVD transition based on picture improvements. I think the real benefits of both new formats will be bit for bit uncompressed audio with the potential of more channels, interaction, meta data for motion control on seats, and uncompressed music at 24/96khz for HD DVD and 24/192khz for BlueRay.

    I was an earler adopter for beta, LD, DCC SACD DVD-A, and DAT. I will not be one for these formats. Either a universal player would have to be offered, or one format will have to emerge as the winner. As of a couple of days ago, universal players may be possible thanks to a company that developed an adjustable laser that can play everything under the sun.
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  17. #17
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    Thanks for the great info, Terrence....

    "I have seen demo's of 1080i which is HD-DVD resolution, and its benefits are easily seen when compared to 480i or 480P. IMO it does compare to the LD to DVD transition based on picture improvements."

    But does that mean that there is going to be AS DRASTIC a "jump" in picture quality from standard DVD to HD DVD --- a jump AS dramatic as VHS to DVD, do you think?

    "I think the real benefits of both new formats will be bit for bit uncompressed audio with the potential of more channels, interaction, meta data for motion control on seats, and uncompressed music at 24/96khz for HD DVD and 24/192khz for BlueRay."

    And do you think enough hardware will come out to support the extra channels on HD DVD titles? Well, I guess so because some flagship receivers already have almost 10.1 powers of amplification! Well, not THAT far, but you know what I mean......do you really think its going to go ABOVE and BEYOND 6.1 or even 7.1 for HOME THEATER use?

    "I was an earler adopter for beta, LD, DCC SACD DVD-A, and DAT. I will not be one for these formats. Either a universal player would have to be offered, or one format will have to emerge as the winner. As of a couple of days ago, universal players may be possible thanks to a company that developed an adjustable laser that can play everything under the sun."

    So, you personally are sticking with STANDARD DVD that we have now?

  18. #18
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    Cool

    I think that the only real titles i will be in a rush to replace is my LD's & non anamorphic DVD's, but replace my whole collection that has at least 300 DVD'S & not to encluding my LD'S ? the only way that going to happen is the new formats have to be a night & day in overall performance. sure there's going to be improvements, but to give up alot of high performance current DVD'S ? that's too much money to reinvest for a everyday working man like myself. for now just enjoy what we home theater men & women have right now untill this new format war has cleared up.


    mike

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by steamboy 2
    I think that the only real titles i will be in a rush to replace is my LD's & non anamorphic DVD's, but replace my whole collection that has at least 300 DVD'S & not to encluding my LD'S ? the only way that going to happen is the new formats have to be a night & day in overall performance. sure there's going to be improvements, but to give up alot of high performance current DVD'S ? that's too much money to reinvest for a everyday working man like myself. for now just enjoy what we home theater men & women have right now untill this new format war has cleared up.


    mike
    Great, level-headed answer to this, Mike, thanks..........I cant justify replacing ALL my discs, either........and I think you're right......for now, lets just watch standard DVD and not upgrade our players even until this format war finds its bitter end.........

  20. #20
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    So long as there's a format war going between Blu-ray and HD-DVD, I'm going to sit it out as will quite a few other consumers. No sense in committing to one format versus the other, when there's a very real possibility of one format disappearing from the market within the first few years.

    When VHS reigned, I barely purchased any movies because VHS was primarily a pan & scan format, tapes would wear out, the soundtracks were limited to two-channel, and there were no other features that enhanced their collectability. Laserdisc addressed those shortcomings, but the players and discs were expensive and cumbersome to use. DVD addressed all of VHS's shortcomings and has the added advantage of ubiquity, low cost, convenience, and better multichannel audio implementation. My current DVD collection is closing in on 300 titles, and the only justification for repurchasing any of them would be if my future video and audio systems allow for Blu-ray/HD-DVD's improvements to make a difference.

    The benefit to HD will depend on the display. The bigger the display, the more noticeable the benefit. And on the audio front, DTS-HD and DD+ will be the new audio formats, but it remains to be seen if the audio tracks included on the actual release discs will take advantage of the higher resolution, potential for additional audio tracks, and lossless capability that these formats offer. But, like I said at the outset, so long as we got two formats in the market with no means of resolving between them (i.e. a universal player), then I'll stick with DVD.

  21. #21
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    good question
    my dvd collection is about 125 discs,and i cant see myself replacing more than 20-25
    discs.star wars(george will get my money for the 4th time)lord of the rings trilogy,maybe
    star trek,movies such as that will get the upgrade treatment.movies like bull durham,mars attacks,the generals daughter,will most likely not.
    we have time though,because the new hardware will not be cheap and only early adopters will jump on that bandwagon right away.i,for one,am just finishing a 2 year journey down the upgrade path and really dont want to start again.every component in my system has been replaced over the last two years,but i am weak.cant wait for my first demo.
    i am interested in the audio end of these new formats,i think there is a chance for great things with them

    anyway just my two cents
    bill

  22. #22
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    Very timely post.

    I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I've finally ordered my HD set and am now upgrading everything upstream: New Dish stb w/ dvr, new dvd player (my old Sony doesn't even have DTS or prog scan!). Now originally, I was planning on getting a nice universal player like a Denon 2910, but now I'm not so sure sacd and dvda are even viable mediums. It certainly seems like the releases have dwindled in recent months. Still, I've got so much money invested in my speakers it seems like a damn shame to not utilize their potential with multi-channel hi-rez. To compound the confusion, we have HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to consider. I've heard the PS3 is going to have both SACD and Blu-Ray capability so I might just wait for that, but I'm not sure how good the audio quality will be. Ughhh...

    So now I'm thinking of getting a cheap $250 dvd player with 720p as a stopgap and then upgrade again once this whole HD-DVD/Blu-ray debacle shakes out. I've heard Samsung and Panny both make excellent dvd players for <$200, but more research is in order.

  23. #23
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    Wow I didn't know old Eduardo influenced Texas Chain Saw?

    P.S. Did you take your name from the character the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on?[/QUOTE]

    Actually Eduardo was the devine inspiration for Tony Perkins.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardGein
    P.S. Did you take your name from the character the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on?
    Actually Eduardo was the devine inspiration for Tony Perkins.[/QUOTE]

    Well, I was referring to the "Ed Gein" who was the guy they based the "Leatherface" character off of in Texas Chainsaw Massacre.........

  25. #25
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    Thanks for all the replies, fellas.......I guess this has been a pretty hot topic amongst home theater enthusiasts, as I suspected.....

    So, do we have any "final consensus" in here? I think we're all in agreement that we're gonna hold onto our DVD collections for now (well, we have no choice AT THIS VERY MOMENT) until one of these new formats proves itself or wins the consumer war, and when that happens, we'll upgrade titles we REALLY deem as important?

    I dont know about anyone else, but there is simply NO WAY I am going to be able to upgrade my entire standard DVD collection, even IF every title WERE available, which, as suggested in here already, probably wont be. Although, I said the same thing about my MASSIVE VHS collection, that I wouldnt switch over to any other format because it would seem impossible to re-collect all those films......but when I got sold on DVD, that was it----no more VHS for me. Of course, though, keep in mind.....my VHS collection was MAINLY made up of stuff I TAPED OFF OF CABLE, not STORE BOUGHT films, so now that I am investing a ton of cash on DVD titles, I just dont know if I can re-buy most of them again, and spend that money AGAIN, if they come out on HD-DVD......I havent even finished replacing all my VHS TITLES I want on standard DVD yet, and now Im going to have to worry about replacing DVD TITLES with HD DVD TITLES?

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