Alright, Let Me Try This Another Way...For Those of You That DO Collect Cinema on DVD

[JSE]

I agree with you, but I loath renting because I have gotten more scratched, dirty, unplayable disc from my rental stores than I can live with. Plus, I tend to look a movies more than one time, and sometimes more than three times and I wouldn't like paying rental charges twice or three times for the same movie. There is just something about having a DVD at your touch, at your control that is appealing to me. I just never know when the urge to watch Star Wars for the three hundreth time will hit me.

I do buy DVDs. There are some I can just watch over and over. These are generally comedies. Van Wilder ($6 at wallyworld), Harold and Kumar, Old School, Animal House, Caddy Shack, Princess Bride, etc. And, some action and dramas. I just don't go out and buy every new release to hit the shelves like some people do. I own about 30 DVDs. I might buy 1, maybe 2 a month. Now Concert DVDs, that's another story. I have many.

JSE

[Lexmark3200]

"There is just something about having a DVD at your touch, at your control that is appealing to me."

.....and THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT DVD COLLECTING IS ALL ABOUT, in a nutshell.....you summed it up yourself perfectly, Terrence......what people who DONT collect recorded cinema media dont understand is that there is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT about watching a piece of cinema on cable and watching it out of YOUR OWN DVD collection, where you can pause, skip, adjust Dolby Digital and DTS sound algorithms......there is something MUCH MUCH different about having and touching pre-recorded media in a collection than simply "catching it" on TV..............

[Lexmark3200]

Just to provide some feedback to some folks that "dont get" the whole DVD collecting hobby thing, just jump onto Home Theater Forum.com or Home Theater Discussion.com and take a look under their "DVD" threads ---- there are guys who take this so seriously they have rooms devoted to storing their media; I am on my way there too, with nearly 2,000 titles of all genres devoted to the hobby; so THIS is why I am so concerned about this new format that's about to rear its head (HD DVD) because of my unbelievably MASSIVE investment in standard DVD titles......will these titles and their quality on the standard DVD format become obsolete totally like VHS is becoming? THIS is what I wonder......

And Im not kidding about those websites.......in particular, go on Home Theater Forum.com and look under FILMS ON DVD.......these guys are FANATICAL about their DVD collections.......

[Lexmark3200]

"I have to admit, I don't get this hobby. Is the purpose to build a film library or just to collect DVD's in boxes with nice artwork?"

Read the above replies................

"If the purpose is just to accumulate a dvd in a box put put by a commercial company, then if you have the money to spend on that on a large scale it won't make a difference if you have to buy the same stuff again on HD because you habve the money in the first place,"

Not necessarily true; I have burned a ton of cash on buying standard DVD titles, and that doesnt proportionally mean that Im gonna have the money to do this with HD DVD --- THATS what the point is; I will in no way be able to financially justify re-BUYING ALL my DVDs for HD DVD, ON TOP OF THAT, add NEW TITLES that come out......its simply financially impossible, whether you believe that or not.

[SlumpBuster]

I don't know Lexmark, I think you've actually proposed a pretty good question. But I think the answer may be decidedly non-technical and more reliant upon market forces. DVD achieved historic market penetration in large parts to the players becoming a loss leader for many companies. i.e. Sony says "here buy our $79.00 DVD player that actually costs us $85.00 to produce and distribute." Now buy the new TV that you need that has a pretty good profit margin. Then the HTiB that has an even better margin. And finally, buy the DVD with a 60% profit margin. Sony owns the whole chain. It's called vertical integration and it works great. Problem is that your not going to convince the vast majority of consumers to do it twice in a period of less than ten years. The world doesn't change as fast as Sony, JVC, and Toshiba would have us believe. Remember, you still can't even get a Volkswagen with an indash CD player, and my mom will simply never understand why Pan and Scan sucks. Couple that with the fact that the mainstream usually moves towards the lower fidelity format (i.e. LPs to cassettes, CDs to MP3) and I don't see a new format breaking out to replace DVD anytime soon.

So to answer your question, I'd keep buying. Especially if you get into more and more obsure stuff that simply may never make it onto new formats.

[Lexmark3200]

"I don't know Lexmark, I think you've actually proposed a pretty good question."

Thank you, slump......I thought I did, too.....

"Remember, you still can't even get a Volkswagen with an indash CD player"

You cant? My friend has a Jetta with one.........

"Couple that with the fact that the mainstream usually moves towards the lower fidelity format (i.e. LPs to cassettes, CDs to MP3)"

You call that going to the "lower fidelity format"?

"So to answer your question, I'd keep buying. Especially if you get into more and more obsure stuff that simply may never make it onto new formats."

Thank you.

[Lexmark3200]

"I can rent it and then tough it, feel it, rub it, fast forward it, pause it, whatever, for about a $1 a day."

STILL COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DIFFERENT from the experience a collector and hobbyist receives by OWNING the discs rather than renting them, even if you can feel and rub it (now THAT sounds naughty.......)

Like I said, hop on Home Theater Forum.com and look under their FILMS ON DVD threads......you'll see the difference Im talking about.

"You have to remember, not all people have to own something to enjoy it"

Right, and Im not saying they do; Im simply asking if other COLLECTORS of cinema media who ENJOY the hobby of collecting feel that their collections are going to be obsolete with the advent of High Def DVD.

"and not all people can or choose to heavily invest in formats that will change every decade or so."

THATS EXACTLY what I am worried about------that while I can afford, for the time being, adding to my 2,000 title collection little by little as I do, Im not going to be able to afford to REPLACE ALL THOSE titles with another format; Im trying to ascertain if the jump from DVD to HD DVD will be like that of VHS to DVD.....

"However, it just seem somewhat pointless to invest in something everyone knows will be a obsolete format in the next several years."

And thats ANOTHER point I was trying to have addressed ---- if people THINK DVD will be COMPLETELY and UTTERLY obsolete, which others are saying will not really happen, depending on who you talk to or ask ---- some on another site swore to me that HD DVD will not REPLACE our DVD collections, but just ADD to them, ESPECIALLY if the machines are backwards compatible.....

"And, the people who have huge DVD libraries now, will change and begin their new quest to build a library of the newest format. And then, in about 10 more years, you will be asking the same question."

Ahhhhhhhh.....but WILL they? Or will HD DVD simply AUGMENT a standard DVD collection?

"Again, you seemed to have asked a question that only you can answer. "

And again, I disagree with you here because even Slump Buster, in another thread, admitted that I "bring up a very good question here....." It seems others are thinking about this too.

"No one else can tell you how to spend your money. Who cares what others think."

I do. But you're missing the point regarding trying to get OPINIONS from people on whether or not this new format will MAKE our current DVD libraries obsolete and will MAKE us start over again......

[JSE]

"There is just something about having a DVD at your touch, at your control that is appealing to me."

.....and THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT DVD COLLECTING IS ALL ABOUT, in a nutshell.....you summed it up yourself perfectly, Terrence......what people who DONT collect recorded cinema media dont understand is that there is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT about watching a piece of cinema on cable and watching it out of YOUR OWN DVD collection, where you can pause, skip, adjust Dolby Digital and DTS sound algorithms......there is something MUCH MUCH different about having and touching pre-recorded media in a collection than simply "catching it" on TV..............

I can rent it and then tough it, feel it, rub it, fast forward it, pause it, whatever, for about a $1 a day. You have to remember, not all people have to own something to enjoy it and not all people can or choose to heavily invest in formats that will change every decade or so. The bulk of my "hobby" money goes to photography equipment. I am afraid to add it up. It's easily more than my car. But, I make money at it so I see a return, although small. Different strokes for different folks. However, it just seem somewhat pointless to invest in something everyone knows will be a obsolete format in the next several years. I guess it's the smokem while you gottem train of thought. It's not wrong or right. It just depends on the individual. Are they willing to invest moneyin the format. One thing is for sure though, the format will change. Change is certain. And, the people who have huge DVD libraries now, will change and begin their new quest to build a library of the newest format. And then, in about 10 more years, you will be asking the same question. I

Again, you seemed to have asked a question that only you can answer. No one else can tell you how to spend your money. Who cares what others think. If it makes you happy, so be it. I just bought a $4k lens a few months ago. My wife, thinks I am crazy but she understands it makes me happy.

[JSE]

The only thing guaranteed is that DVD "WILL" be obsolete some day. Will HD DVD takes it's place? Who knows and it really does not matter. Another format will replace HD DVD at some point, if HD DVD even gets off the ground. Technology is advancing faster than you can blink an eye. To think that DVD will be around forever is just not reasonable.

I know I am not your target audience on this, but it's a public forum. By limiting your responses to other fanatics only, is just looking for affirmation and comfort. Your hoping someone else is in the boat with you. Again, who cares what others think. If your happy with your collection, then fine. When a newer format comes out, adopt it from this point foward and replace your favorites. It will happen. Trust me.

No one can tell you HD DVD will replace DVD because no on knows for sure. Your asking an impossible question. Seems to be a common occurence with you. If all these people on these other great sites are debating it, maybe you can find an answer there. Although, I doubt you will get a concrete answer because there is no concrete answer. And if there was, you would have already found it on the other fanatic sites and would have no need to ask it here. It's OK for there not to be an answer. Sometimes you just have to ride it out and see what happens.

[PAT.P]

I wont be in a rush to replace my DVD movies,got 4 dvd player and still have 2 VCR for my VHS movies.I rather wait and see what all the rave about and wait until price drop .As long that I have extra DVD players I dont care .The grass aint always greener on the other side and dont have to keep up with the rest of the crowd.Im satisfy as is the way DVD is played.Rather have a great sound system than a better DVD player.Pat.P.

[Woochifer]

The only thing guaranteed is that DVD "WILL" be obsolete some day. Will HD DVD takes it's place? Who knows and it really does not matter. Another format will replace HD DVD at some point, if HD DVD even gets off the ground. Technology is advancing faster than you can blink an eye. To think that DVD will be around forever is just not reasonable.

I know I am not your target audience on this, but it's a public forum. By limiting your responses to other fanatics only, is just looking for affirmation and comfort. Your hoping someone else is in the boat with you. Again, who cares what others think. If your happy with your collection, then fine. When a newer format comes out, adopt it from this point foward and replace your favorites. It will happen. Trust me.

No one can tell you HD DVD will replace DVD because no on knows for sure. Your asking an impossible question. Seems to be a common occurence with you. If all these people on these other great sites are debating it, maybe you can find an asnwer there. Although, I doubt you will get a concrete answer becasue there is no concrete answer. And if there was, you would have already found it on the other fanatic sites and would have no need to ask it here. It's OK for there not to be an answer. Sometimes you just have to ride it out and see what happens.

I think you got it right. The question is not only impossible, but way premature as well, given that the hardware specs have not even been finalized yet. Plus, negotiations are still ongoing to come out with a unified HD disc format that will avoid a format war. If a unified HD disc format gets created, then by accounts I've read that will delay the introduction of the HD disc until at least the end of next year, but give the format a much better shot to succeed in the market. Also, the first 1080p HDTVs have only now gotten introduced, so that puts added pressure for the HD discs to support 1080p.

A lot of things need to happen before we even speculate whether or not HD-DVD, Blu-ray, or some unified HD disc format will tread water in the market. For starters, we have to see some actual production titles and players, and get an actual look at what benefit they provide before we figure out whether or not people will see enough benefit to warrant upgrading their DVD collections.

Keep in mind that for the first two years or so of the DVD, there was still uncertainty as to whether it would survive. Several studios (Paramount, Fox, and Disney in particular) had not fully committed to the DVD format, and instead threw their initial support behind the competing DivX format, the pay-per-view disc format jointly created and marketed by Circuit City (rather than owning a title, you would pay into a debit account everytime you played a movie). It wasn't until DivX failed that all of the studios fell solidly behind the DVD, and started releasing titles in earnest. Once that happened and prices started going down, then DVD player sales took off.

With a potential HD-DVD/Blu-ray format war, that makes the startup for those formats all the more uncertain, given that the studios have divided right down the middle on which format they will support. Until somebody creates a universal player or one format definitively wins out over the other, upgrading someone's entire DVD library would require buying two separate players. With expected prices at about $1,000 for the first production players, I doubt you'll find too many takers for quite a while. Add the possibility that HD-DVD/Blu-ray will, in the name of copy protection, limit the video resolution of the analog component video outputs to 480p, and you have the makings of a market failure similar to SACD/DVD-A.

The same question could've been posed with SACD and DVD-A -- do you plan to upgrade your CD collection? Given the higher resolution and multichannel sound, the simple answer would be yes, but the reality is there aren't enough titles available in those formats to replace even a small percentage of the CDs out there. Who would've known how badly the format launch would get botched, and how badly the format war and inane copy protection restrictions would impede the growth of the formats to the point that the major labels have now all but abandoned the formats?

[markw]

The main questions you should be asking yourself is "Are YOU going to replave your DVD's with the newer versions."

Don't bother answering. Any more on this and you will have definitely crossed over into hte pure troll territory. Up to now, you've been on the border, tauntingly putting your toe over the line.

[Tarheel_]

preparation of the new format. Back in October 04, Blockbuster was paying $8 per dvd with no limit. So, i took back over $300 dollars worth of dvds. THey gave me a credit, which i used to buy/order my favorites i need to keep until the new format....like Star Wars boxed set, LOTR SEs, etc.

Now, they only give $3-5 so your better off keeping them unless you never watch a certain flick. I'm down to around 50, which is a good number i think.

[Lexmark3200]

I wont be in a rush to replace my DVD movies,got 4 dvd player and still have 2 VCR for my VHS movies.I rather wait and see what all the rave about and wait until price drop .As long that I have extra DVD players I dont care .The grass aint always greener on the other side and dont have to keep up with the rest of the crowd.Im satisfy as is the way DVD is played.Rather have a great sound system than a better DVD player.Pat.P.

Thanks for your thoughts Pat.

[Lexmark3200]

"Don't bother answering. Any more on this and you will have definitely crossed over into hte pure troll territory. Up to now, you've been on the border, tauntingly putting your toe over the line."

LMAO......LMAO.......

[Lexmark3200]

preparation of the new format. Back in October 04, Blockbuster was paying $8 per dvd with no limit. So, i took back over $300 dollars worth of dvds. THey gave me a credit, which i used to buy/order my favorites i need to keep until the new format....like Star Wars boxed set, LOTR SEs, etc.

Now, they only give $3-5 so your better off keeping them unless you never watch a certain flick. I'm down to around 50, which is a good number i think.

You serious, Tar? You SOLD YOUR DVD collection in preparation of the new format? You are THAT convinced of its pre market success?

[steamboy 2]

I will not jump ship when HD-DVD comes. this is just like when DVD hit the market in 97 &
LD owners give up the whole collection because of a new format.i still own all my LD's,even the THX star wars( not the 97 version ) & the criterion release of blade runner,
just because a new wave of DVD comes along does not mean dump your collection & buy them over.those who have & will do this must have money to burn.

mike

[GMichael]

If it catches on I'll get on board then. Even then I won't replace my old collection. I may re-buy a few favorites in the new format. But for the most part I'll be keeping what I have and slowly building up another collection.
Not sure if this will be the format that takes over, but something will some day.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If it catches on I'll get on board then. Even then I won't replace my old collection. I may re-buy a few favorites in the new format. But for the most part I'll be keeping what I have and slowly building up another collection.
Not sure if this will be the format that takes over, but something will some day.

I have about 1100 DVD's right now, there is no way I am going to replace every one of them. So just like yourself I am going to replace only my most premium ones(if offered), and keep the rest. I did the same thing for my LD collection. Thank God that most all of my premimum LD's do have a DVD counterpart and I was able to sell them to a very happy LD collector.

[Lexmark3200]

Agreed Terrence and Michael; Terrence, I have more discs than you in MY obssessive collection and I cant see replacing every single one of them, no matter WHAT other members in here say about me not targeting a "primary audience" with this question ---- you guys are getting to the core of the issue. Thank you.

[nick4433]

Originally Posted by EdwardGein
"I have to admit, I don't get this hobby. Is the purpose to build a film library or just to collect DVD's in boxes with nice artwork? If the purpose is to build a film library, then just get a burner, Nero software, get DVD shrink (decrypts movies) for free online & join Netflix & save a large amount of cash. You can get cases cheaply on Ebay & there are some free web sites that you can download the commercial DVD covers of your movies as well.

If the purpose is just to accumulate a dvd in a box put put by a commercial company, then if you have the money to spend on that on a large scale it won't make a difference if you have to buy the same stuff again on HD because you habve the money in the first place,"


Great. Now everyone knows.

[nick4433]

For those who know me know me for being an audio fan and not much into the Video side of things. But, for anyone concerned with HD-DVD and Blu Ray(?), etc. I have a feeling that one of these things might happen.
1) An upconverter will converts all present DVDs to that format
2) A HD-DVD or Blu ray fairy will happily buy all our DVD collection and magically present us with the newer formats discs.
3) Manufacturers of DVD players will happily let us "exchange" our DVD players for newer format players.
4) Most of us will have to find a way (which we always do) to smuggle these newer players and the newer discs in the house and give some unthinkable reason to our better halves for the switch.

I am still working on the reason for my brand new 9.1 receiver.

[GMichael]

For those who know me know me for being an audio fan and not much into the Video side of things. But, for anyone concerned with HD-DVD and Blu Ray(?), etc. I have a feeling that one of these things might happen.
1) An upconverter will converts all present DVDs to that format
2) A HD-DVD or Blu ray fairy will happily buy all our DVD collection and magically present us with the newer formats discs.
3) Manufacturers of DVD players will happily let us "exchange" our DVD players for newer format players.
4) Most of us will have to find a way (which we always do) to smuggle these newer players and the newer discs in the house and give some unthinkable reason to our better halves for the switch.

I am still working on the reason for my brand new 9.1 receiver.

I cast my vote for number 2. Always had a thing for blu fairies. Will she have her own wand or will I have to let her use mine?

[Lexmark3200]

I will not jump ship when HD-DVD comes. this is just like when DVD hit the market in 97 &
LD owners give up the whole collection because of a new format.i still own all my LD's,even the THX star wars( not the 97 version ) & the criterion release of blade runner,
just because a new wave of DVD comes along does not mean dump your collection & buy them over.those who have & will do this must have money to burn.

mike

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Mike......so, if we dont dump our DVD collections, what do you suggest we do as enthusiats --- simply "add" the titles we want on HD DVD when they arrive and get a backward compatible player?

[Lexmark3200]

"The only thing guaranteed is that DVD "WILL" be obsolete some day."

Some experts in audio say no; that we have arrived at the definitive medium for the next good century.

"Will HD DVD takes it's place? Who knows and it really does not matter."

Well, it matters to me and people who are investing 100s of thousands of dollars into DVD collections over the years --- whether you see that as mysterious or not, it is a recognized hobby.

"Another format will replace HD DVD at some point, if HD DVD even gets off the ground. Technology is advancing faster than you can blink an eye. To think that DVD will be around forever is just not reasonable."

Well, FOREVER is a subjective term because we're all not even going to live forever.

"I know I am not your target audience on this, but it's a public forum. By limiting your responses to other fanatics only, is just looking for affirmation and comfort."

No, not really if you KNEW inside my HEAD what I am really trying to get at here; I am WELL AWARE that it is a PUBLIC FORUM.....but what is the point of having others who dont share an enthusiasm of this hobby, nor wish to contribute anything relative to the discussion, JOIN IN THIS DISCUSSION then? What is the point of that, just to solidify the fact that this is a public forum? I know it, I got it.

"Your hoping someone else is in the boat with you."

Why do you care so much about this theory even it was true?

"Again, who cares what others think."

Thats YOUR take on it, not mine.....I CARE what others think.

"If your happy with your collection, then fine. When a newer format comes out, adopt it from this point foward and replace your favorites. It will happen. Trust me."

THESE are the kinds of things I was getting at with regard to the POINT of the thread question; if we are going to most likely just ADD to our collections or replace entire collections. Sure Im happy NOW with my collection, but I worry what this new format will bring in terms of earth-shattering quality differences and the need to replace EVERY title in my standard DVD collection, which probably wont be feasible anyway because HD DVD probably wont offer EVERY SINGLE DVD title ever produced anyway.

"No one can tell you HD DVD will replace DVD because no on knows for sure. Your asking an impossible question. Seems to be a common occurence with you."

Its the way you are interpretting the questions; theyre not impossible to answer. Nothing is when you use your mind.

"If all these people on these other great sites are debating it, maybe you can find an answer there."

Just hop on and take a look for yourself-----they ARE continuing to debate it on Home Theater Discussion.com and Home Theater Forum.com as VERY hot topics right now. I just thought I would try the discussion in here, but I guess you feel your input regarding the subject should the final word on it regardless of what other members have to say.

"Although, I doubt you will get a concrete answer because there is no concrete answer. And if there was, you would have already found it on the other fanatic sites and would have no need to ask it here. It's OK for there not to be an answer. Sometimes you just have to ride it out and see what happens."

Thats what DEBATE and DISCUSSION is all about on these other fanatic sites.....they want to DISCUSS this and I see nothing wrong with that at all; perhaps like you said there ISNT a definitve answer, but I can explore the POSSIBILITY of what others may THINK they are going to do with their collections, cant I?