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  1. #1
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    8track, betamax, laserdisc, DLP

    I remember my first encounter with a DLP product, a front projector costing five grand.
    Sounded like a sound form factor and the picture was grt except for the black level.
    That was a different world, the mighty CRT was king, LCD projectors looked like you were watching them through a screen door, etc.
    DLP had a "niche", a clear bright picture in a smaller set that a crt rptv, (and sometimes direct view) couldnt beat, if you wanted a large screen and could afford it DLP was it.
    But following the market is almost as fun as listening to music in this hobby, and sometimes it can break your heart.
    I drove 50 miles to get laserdiscs, nobody in my town carried them in spite of the better picture and sound, I think maximum penetration of the market was around five millon,
    with massive support from pioneer, it died quickly after the advent of DVD.
    And DLP is doomed too, probably the most controversial thing I have said on this site.
    Doesnt make your choice of a DLP set "bad", its' just the facts m'am, sorry.
    LCD got cheaper a lot faster than marketing wonks ever dreamed (a 32in is 549 now)
    and you have around a dozen pages of plasmas and LCD sets on SAMS website.
    And THREE dlp models, total
    Thats the handwriting on the wall, all of the vidboys think it should come down to "pq"
    but a lot of factors are going to kill DLP, A FRONT PROJECTOR type might surrive,
    but the DLP form factor is doom for rptvs, its had it.
    The major thing is you cant hang it on the wall, its once slim size next to CRT is now "bulky", not important to home theater fans but that will kill the deal for most.
    And even if it doesnt finding out you need a new bulb at 2 to 3 hundred bucks after a few years...
    Think mounting on the wall isnt important? JVC does, they have a D-LIA that, yes ,mounts on the wall!
    Superiour betamax died because it couldnt record for two hours and cost more, laserdisc
    never caught on because you "couldnt record" on it, in spite of the fact that most couldnt record on VCR'S either.
    LCD has improved their picture a great deal, and the price has dropped like a rock,
    plasma has improved too, in order to ask people to buy a DLP you're asking a lot.
    But you think the picture is worth it? Thats the worst news, the verdict is in and most think SXRD beats DLP HANDS DOWN, AND THERE'S NO COLOR WHEEL.
    You can get a DLP 50in ffor 1100 hundred bucks, thats dirt cheap, and the customers are grabbing 42in lcd tv's stacked up like cases of beer and ignoring the two DLP's
    sitting on display.
    To be honest that is tempting for me, a cheap way to get a larger screen, but I really hate that color wheel, a great innovation a few years ago, but now just a statement that Texas instruments is charging too much for their chips, limiting the number of three chip models
    (the best way of making a microprojector)
    You can get a three chip sxrd for 2300 bucks, try finding a DLP for that much with three chips.
    The great unwashed (including me) is going for flatscreens, and picture freaks will go for plasma and SXRD, that leaves just a few who want a big screen cheap, and some of them will go for the remaining few rptv crts out there.
    And thats not enough to support economies of scale.
    Dont blame the DLP makers, they just never dreamed that LCD tv would get this cheap this fast, nobody did.
    I give DLP five years, and thats optimistic, their only chance is to appeal to the quality
    market, and thats a slim one
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  2. #2
    Forum Regular Brainstorm's Avatar
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    Iím not too impatient for video projectors thou they are the last part of presentation at home with the matching loudspeakers behind a perforated screen.

    Youíre quite right LCD has dropped down in price and when I feel the time and the need is right Iíll be going for one, Iíve seen them going brand new for around £900.00 pounds and with an image size that would surpass plasma or those bulky ugly TV sets by far, Iíll be going for a video projector canít say when like I said, ďIím not too impatientĒ all good things comes to those who wait.

    As for laserdisc I still own two Pioneer laserdisc players CLD-1750 and 2950 both European models PAL / NTSC best of both worlds and for the UK it was up until the sodden BBFC and trading standards got a little ***** about the sales of NTSC laserdiscs in the UK.

    I also own three DVD players as well with one DVD-RW for transferring some of the laserdiscs over to DVD-RW for my own personal use only!

  3. #3
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Yeah another promo for LCD ...woooo I am so excited I can hardly stand.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    their only chance is to appeal to the quality
    market, and thats a slim one
    Why do you always put down people that base their decisions on quality,be it picture or sound.Not everyone bases their decisions on price,size,the way it looks or if it can hang on a wall or not,some people want gear that sounds great or has a great picture and are willing to pay a little extra for quality.I understand that some are not and that is their choice.No one should be ridiculed for spending their money if they don't want to settle for ok when they can have great.

    bill
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  5. #5
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And DLP is doomed too, probably the most controversial thing I have said on this site.
    Perhaps you might extend your visibility beyond Sam's Club for a value statement of what is availabile today. If you look at bestbuy.com, there is a very different situation. Of thirty-one models 50" and larger, there are 13 plasma, 9 DLP, 5 LCD, and 4 rear projectors. When one looks at the cost for a 50" model, there are significant differences. While you can get a 52" DLP for $1400, a similarly sized LCD runs $4000. The differential buys thirty-two years worth of projector bulbs. I have a 61" DLP where LCDs are completely absent.

    As for the choice in technology, honestly I'm completely neutral. I have three smaller LCD screens along with the big DLP. Beyond practical questions of cost vs. performance, I really don't care. When large LCDs eventually become price competitive, I'll consider them. On the other hand, the cost of plasmas has come down as well. What I buy ten years from now is unknown. Perhaps the answer is none of the above.

    rw

  6. #6
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by musicman1999
    Why do you always put down people that base their decisions on quality,be it picture or sound.Not everyone bases their decisions on price,size,the way it looks or if it can hang on a wall or not,some people want gear that sounds great or has a great picture and are willing to pay a little extra for quality.I understand that some are not and that is their choice.No one should be ridiculed for spending their money if they don't want to settle for ok when they can have great.

    bill
    Where in heck in my post did I put ANYBODY down?
    I am one of those who "base their decison on quality". My first TV was 20in, one of the first
    Sony XBR sets, cost 799 or so, a 26in was 1200 (3600 in todays dollars)
    AND if you're going for quality why go DLP? SXRD is better, really and doesnt have
    a mechanical contrivance to produce color, you can get a 3 chip model.
    In fact I almost bought a DLP, the picture was great and it was cheap, but thats the problem with DLP, most with the money will go with something better, is all.
    And why do you asume that DLP is better than LCD, the main reason I liked one was the bigger screen/price ratio, DLP has a lot of the same blacklevel problems that LCD (and plasma) has.
    But you are basically ignoring a fundamental fact, we in the HT "hobby" are at the mercy of the mass market, it takes money to make this stuff, and if it doesnt sell it wont be
    made, thats simply it. I love SACD and DVD audio, but still have to special order discs,
    both formats are considered failures because they appeal to quality, while the world is downloading MP3S to the point of driving record stores out of business.
    And the audio "purist" is clinging to his turntable for dear life, leaving very few to buy these.
    Likewise, most will go for LCD sets, does that mean that I "favor" these sets.
    Of course not, but their picture is acceptable, quite good with the right tweaking.
    But there are megabuck LCD sets out there with a much better PQ than mine, which really just goes to show the versatality of this form factor
    One of the things I do know is that the audio (and video) purist rides on the back of the market. The reason that DVD is 26bucks for a player that looks quite good is that they sell zillions and turn em out like sausages, why do you think tube gear is so expensive?
    Or a 2:35 anamorphic projector from Runco? They have to be practically made by hand, Sony produces the drives on most high end players, only a few CD and DVD players have proprietary drives.
    But the silliest thing of all is to beleive that just because I state something means I like it.
    It would be great if the market could support DLP, really as many formats and toys as possible.
    More choice for consumers, PQ nuts and the great unwashed alike.
    But thats not the real world
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  7. #7
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    Dlp versus lcd was not my point,you see i am one of your "pq nuts",i like CRT.

    bill
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  8. #8
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman1999
    Dlp versus lcd was not my point,you see i am one of your "pq nuts",i like CRT.

    bill
    Did you get one of the 34in Sony direct view sets when they were on sale for 599$?
    With CRT you are limiting yourself to maybe 800 lines at best.
    I went to look at one of these sonys, and had forgotten how you can see the pixel
    structure when you're within five feet.
    But CRT cant be beat for black level, one of the few things I miss about my samsung tau
    30in set.
    But besides that my new LCD has it pretty much beat.
    And I spent most of my life living INVOLUTARILY with the limitations of a CRT
    (bulky, small screen, dim screen with RPTV, washes out in room lighting, burns out in 5 to 10 years) and you can have it sir
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
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  9. #9
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    Well,you are partly correct,it is bulky,no question,and does have great black levels.A properly calibrated CRT will beat an LCD any day.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
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    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
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  10. #10
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman1999
    Well,you are partly correct,it is bulky,no question,and does have great black levels.A properly calibrated CRT will beat an LCD any day.

    bill
    Actually, no.
    Now you might prefer it, and more power to ya, but in real numbers most of the new display formats pretty much have it beat.
    A friend of mine is cussing because his 47in RPTV by samsung is too dim, have to watch
    it in a dark room and the old lady doesnt like that.
    We have a 27in datagrade crt that used to be used in endoscophy, a very sophisticated
    SONY (PAL, SECAM, NTST) with internal/external sync, overscan control, and the specs say it can realizde 600 lines. We got them because the new LCD monitors the doctors
    use can resolve 1900 by something or other, something that comes in handy when you're replacing a heart valve by looking at it. Bigger too, HUGH screens. Very nice.
    And please dont tell me that PQ is more important than "numbers", been hearing that from the turntable crowd for years in regard to audio.
    I like a good listen on my turntabe every so often, but it cant beat high res sound
    And a CRT will never beat a source with 2,000,000 pixels
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  11. #11
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    And please dont tell me that PQ is more important than "numbers", been hearing that from the turntable crowd for years in regard to audio.
    What can be more important than quality?Numbers don't always tell the story,would you prefer a 100 watt/chanell Onkyo or a 60 watt Krell amp with a nice pre-pro?

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
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  12. #12
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I like a good listen on my turntabe every so often, but it cant beat high res sound
    Time for a cartridge upgrade and some audiophile vinyl?
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman1999
    And please dont tell me that PQ is more important than "numbers", been hearing that from the turntable crowd for years in regard to audio.
    What can be more important than quality?Numbers don't always tell the story,would you prefer a 100 watt/chanell Onkyo or a 60 watt Krell amp with a nice pre-pro?

    bill
    PQ is numbers! Thats the only objective way of judging anything.
    You may prefer the softer picture of CRT, lookin at a picture that will never exceed
    34in in direc view sets, having to watch it in a darkened room because of glare,
    thats your perogative, doesnt mean its better to anyone but YOU.
    For years "tubehead" audiophiles have been swearing up and down that "tube sound"
    is far superior to "solid state", What they're talking about is the massive amounts of harmonic distortion, sometimes as much as 10%.
    They have heater circuits that power the emitters in tubes, basically a space heater in your gear.
    Likewise CRT has a high voltage power supply you can hear sometimes, the pitch on the screen will never give you more than 800 lines or so, and if you get them bright enough
    to see the one advantage , black level, disapears.
    CRTS are the new turntables, people swear up and down that they are "better" in spite of all evidence , both lab and listening wise.
    As for a "new" cartrige I have a audio technica, less than a year old,
    and my records never sounded better, but C.D still sounds better than them.
    If CRTS are you're poison better stock up, they will be extinct in a few years, save cheap
    small portables from Korea and China
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
    pronto remote, technics antique direct drive TT
    Samsung SACD/DVDA player
    emotiva upa-2 two channel amp

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