What do you for in a recording?

[Resident Loser]

...Re: BF and GJLAT...I found this site today:

http://www.songtone.com/artists/Fris...ell_gjlat.html

It has three complete cuts...also a pretty good review...in fact, doin' a search of the title on MSN shows a few other reviews...

jimHJJ(...they seem to have liked it and it's sound...he!!, my mid-fi ears aren't so dumb after all...)

[gonefishin]

hehe...nice reviews


I just ordere it on-line (used ) So I should receive it sometime next week (I figure)


thanks again,
dan

[Mr Peabody]

Good discussion, interesting about the channel being out of phase on the one recording. Good input about James Newton Howard & Friends. I saw that recently re-issued on either 180 or 200 gram vinyl. I can't remember if it was from www.amusicdirect or acouticsounds.com.

Please don't take offense, ResidentLoser you remind me of a friend I have I call the "anti-audiophile". He has a huge collection of music, even some old reel to reel, and still buys music but he don't really care what he plays it on. He surprisingly has an Onkyo receiver but he blew one of his woofers in his speakers. He listened to it like that for a long time. It drove me crazy. Well, he wonders into Radio Shack one day and they have some stuff on a close out table so he buys a 10" woofer, not knowing anything about what he is replacing, gets it home and he finds his woofer was a 12". What does he do, he screws it into the cabinet anyway with just 2 screws, it has this extremely large gap as you can imagine, I explained the need for a tight enclosure etc. etc. well, it's still like that today as far as I know. I even tried to convince him to buy just a small pair of bookshelf speakers. He only listened to one car speaker until that went out then he started carrying his boombox in the car. It didn't bother him what the sound was. I think he got into more of the spirit of the music.

I have ridden in peoples cars with them and their speakers will be off balance or something and that drives me crazy. I'll ask them if I can adjust it and they act like I, am, crazy. They either couldn't tell or didn't care. Thank God for digital tuners, those people also couldn't tell when the analog tuner was on the station or not. Not that RL is like that, but talking about my friend just led me into this other stuff. It's interesting how there are people on the other end of the spectrum than me. I'm done now.

[Resident Loser]

...but some clarification is in order.

I have been involved in this hobby for quite some time. "Been here, done that" as the saying goes...Having been a semi-pro musician off and on for over three decades, a p!$$-poor songwriter and a semi-serious amateur recordist, quality sound is important to me...however, I have learned over the years not to become too caught up in some of the trappings...becoming a "gearhead" is always a danger in any pastime, more so in audio I think...purchasing source material that is more-or-less "demo" oriented is just an extension of that IMO...That's not to say I have not added to my system over the years, after doing the requisite reasearch and I fully enjoy the fruits of my labors.

I also came to the conclusion that rejecting some performances simply because they were not in keeping with the "audiophile" mindset is to deny oneself large amounts really terrific stuff.

I'm actually quite finicky about my gear and the sound it produces...I've made alterations to my house to that end and have, in addition to using room treatments, taken the time to EQ my listening area properly...I prefer clean and linear, some might call it "austere" reproduction...hearing things "warts and all" is part of the deal to me, I know what "live" sounds like and I know how first generation recordings compare...on the other hand I can listen to a transistor radio, boom-box, car audio etc. with out running away screaming "my ears, my ears, what have you done to my ears!"...now the type of music is another story, but that's a whole 'nother kettle O' fish...as long as I can control the balance of the sound(I tend to back-off on the bass on the "boomer" and in my Jeep...EQing by ear...yes Skep, in this case by ear...) and have some input into the material being played, I'm fairly docile.

jimHJJ(...enjoy the music...I surely will...)

[Feanor]

I got to wondering what others listen for or what makes a recording sound good to them. On another post the discussion of lack of dynamic range in current recordings prompted this. ...

... In my case. Rather, the qualities I listen for are separation of instruments and voices, and spatial realism that effects imaging, tranparency, and a sense of the ambience of the recording venue.

Personally, I think the recording process has more to do with the presence of these qualities than does the distribution medium, (LP vs. RBCD vs. SACD). Fewer, less closely placed microphones, less mix-down, less equalization, and less compression, produce the better result.

Futhermore I think your amp and speakers have more to do faithful reproduction if these qualities than your source equipment, at least in most set-ups.

[Woochifer]

Good discussion, interesting about the channel being out of phase on the one recording. Good input about James Newton Howard & Friends. I saw that recently re-issued on either 180 or 200 gram vinyl. I can't remember if it was from www.amusicdirect or acouticsounds.com.

Hmmm, reissued on vinyl, eh? I remembered that Sheffield's direct-to-disc LPs were always limited editions because they only made a limited number of stampers from the original lacquer disc that got cut straight from the board feed. Once those stampers were used up, the LP would go out of print. Some of their more popular titles got reissued after the direct discs sold out, but they stipulated that those were mastered off of their backup tapes and not from the original master disc. If the James Newton Howard recording got reissued on LP, I would guess that it likely got mastered from the same analog tape that was used for the CD versions.

Please don't take offense, ResidentLoser you remind me of a friend I have I call the "anti-audiophile". He has a huge collection of music, even some old reel to reel, and still buys music but he don't really care what he plays it on. He surprisingly has an Onkyo receiver but he blew one of his woofers in his speakers. He listened to it like that for a long time. It drove me crazy. Well, he wonders into Radio Shack one day and they have some stuff on a close out table so he buys a 10" woofer, not knowing anything about what he is replacing, gets it home and he finds his woofer was a 12". What does he do, he screws it into the cabinet anyway with just 2 screws, it has this extremely large gap as you can imagine, I explained the need for a tight enclosure etc. etc. well, it's still like that today as far as I know. I even tried to convince him to buy just a small pair of bookshelf speakers. He only listened to one car speaker until that went out then he started carrying his boombox in the car. It didn't bother him what the sound was. I think he got into more of the spirit of the music.

I have ridden in peoples cars with them and their speakers will be off balance or something and that drives me crazy. I'll ask them if I can adjust it and they act like I, am, crazy. They either couldn't tell or didn't care. Thank God for digital tuners, those people also couldn't tell when the analog tuner was on the station or not. Not that RL is like that, but talking about my friend just led me into this other stuff. It's interesting how there are people on the other end of the spectrum than me. I'm done now.

Well, I think that approach of listening to good music on anything, anywhere, is certainly a better approach than some audiophiles I know who will not listen to anything unless the recording and playback rig are pristine. There are plenty of fantastic recordings of horrid music out there (and plenty of them are frequently cited by audio reviewers). No thanks. Give me John Coltrane on a transistor radio over a state-of-the-art Amanda McBroom playback anyday.

Believe me, riding in cars was much worse when the playback of choice was cassettes and 8-tracks. Prerecorded tapes were already bad enough (the poor sound quality and the amount that they shed on tape heads), and most of the factory installed tape players back then were also pretty horrible. But, give a couple of years of continuous play and jostling around in the car, and you add gunked up rollers, capstans, and heads, and mismatched azimuth alignment to the mix as well. That combination can sound pretty painful.

[Mr Peabody]

I am with you on a few things but sometimes if the sound is bad I'd asoon turn it off. I buy music based on what I like rather than by sound but it is disappointing to get a recording home and play it to realize it sounds poor. I bought a couple Staple Singers CD's not long ago and realized this group must not have had any professional help on recording. I kept one nonetheless because the content was good it's just not as enjoyable as it could have been. The other one was a comp of their Gospel recordings. It sounded like someone sat in the pue and recorded them on a shoebox tape recorder. That one was beyond tolerable. Another one I can remember getting rid of was a Jerry Lee Lewis live recording that sounded like the mic was in the men's room recording the show. On the other hand, I like buying LP's at yardsales, even if it's stuff I may not have heard of, and giving it a listen. I have kept stuff like Louie Armstrong, which is mono, and Doris Day, which is mono, both of which sounded very good to me. Though mono, both still sounded very full, Day's voice sounded wonderful. I am amazed that even on vintage recording gear that great voices can still shine through with all it's power and attributes. Doris Day, Patsy Cline and I'm sure there are many many more. In my opinion on vintage recordings like I mentioned, they sound better on vinyl. For some reason they don't make the transfer to CD very well.

A couple of my car audio systems had EQ's and I went nearly mad adjusting those things because of the difference between recordings. Car audio is one place I have raised the white flag. I will upgrade if necessary to make it tolerable but after doing a couple full blown multi amp systems and still not being satisfied i said forget it. Actually the Infinity system in our Town&Country is one of my most enjoyable systems. It has it's limits but it is fairly balanced after turning the bass down a couple notches.

I guess it is difficult to put into words what exactly makes an enjoyable recording. Who would think that an old mono recording could be as pleasing as a modern day digital recording. Though I don't buy on sound quality, I do have my limits as to what my ears will tolerate. Who would also think that I would be sliding Doris Day into my vinyl collection somewhere between Cream and Def Leppard?

On a recommendation here I did pick up a Kitaro CD. I didn't see the title mentioned. I bought Sacred Journey of.... Somebody. I haven't listened to it all the way through yet. It would be a great headphone recording. I recently bought Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells 3 and that was a very dynamic recording, to the point that I found myself using my volume control a couple times while listening.

[Stoiven]

So let me know:
1. What makes a good recording to you?
2. Your thoughts on importance of dynamic range?
3. Can you think of any abnormalities in a recording that struck you as odd, like my Stevie Ray Vaughn example? And would this even matter to you?

This is about what you personally enjoy or listen for, no right or wrong, like do you want strawberry or vanilla, so I'm hoping for no sparring amongst those who participate.

Well first of all...here is shat I have noticed. A good recording is one that is mixed well and is not "pushed to the limit" as far as loudness goes. That should be left up to your stereo equipment. Here is a little question I wrote up just a few minutes ago:

Someone help either validate what I am noticing or dispell my insanity. Is it me...or are the bulk of todays CD's mixed so loud that clipping is happening. Nearly all of the hottest artists I pick up on CD have been mixed so close to the digital limit (0dB) that when a kick drum hits or there are many transients...a small (or large) amount of distortion can be heard on my system. Now...if I play these cd's through a boom box or a "regular" stereo...I do not notice the distortion as much. But when I run them through my car stereo, I can hear it even at the lowest volume possible. Can someone explain what is going on here? I am losing my mind. Why would this distortion not be as evident on all audio equipment???

So is Dynamic range important to me...hell yeah....when you consider what happens to a recording when eveything rides the limit...ohh yeah i love Dynamic range for its impact..

I think my question will tell you what I have noticed in todays recordings. Makes me want to hurl for what the record industry is doing to todays recordings.