What compromises would you accept?

[bobsticks]

I must be in the lower lower middle class.

Well, clearly there's a level of self-satire going on but, seriously, when $22, 350 per annum for a family of four is considered the poverty line I think it skews any conversation as to what "middle class" might be.

Just another trans fat-laden steak.

Why Bill Bailey, I've never seen you jealous before. Don't be hatin' on my carnivorous instincts...don't hate me because I'm beautiful...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Well, clearly there's a level of self-satire going on but, seriously, when $22, 350 per annum for a family of four is considered the poverty line I think it skews any conversation as to what "middle class" might be.



Why Bill Bailey, I've never seen you jealous before. Don't be hatin' on my carnivorous instincts...don't hate me because I'm beautiful...

Alright then beautiful....LOLOLOLOLOL...hehehehehehe

[bobsticks]

Alright then beautiful....LOLOLOLOLOL...hehehehehehe

Leave it alone baldy...


...or at the next AR block party the only chicas you'll be leaving with will have a rump like "Precious", eyes like a moldy branmuffin and a voice like Fran Drescher with a megaphone...

[atomicAdam]

It hard to take a compromise when you know what great audio should sound like but here is my stab at this.

If these are the ideals -

Detail
Staging
Dynamics
Balance

I'll take -

Detail and good staging with midrange dynamics.

I'm willing to overlook absolute top to bottom balance since I can survive w/o super low bass and a bit of coloration is ok as long as it sounds good to me. But a liquid midrange and top end is a must as well as good mid range dynamics - since that is where I think the life of the music is. Staging just has to be solid - as in no holes on either side of the speakers - but instrument separation doesn't have to be amazing.

[GMichael]

It hard to take a compromise when you know what great audio should sound like but here is my stab at this.

If these are the ideals -

Detail
Staging
Dynamics
Balance

I'll take -

Detail and good staging with midrange dynamics.

I'm willing to overlook absolute top to bottom balance since I can survive w/o super low bass and a bit of coloration is ok as long as it sounds good to me. But a liquid midrange and top end is a must as well as good mid range dynamics - since that is where I think the life of the music is. Staging just has to be solid - as in no holes on either side of the speakers - but instrument separation doesn't have to be amazing.

Why did his part remind me of, “It was Colonel Mustard in the library with the lead pipe?”

[atomicAdam]

You might have weird childhood board game issues?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Leave it alone baldy...


...or at the next AR block party the only chicas you'll be leaving with will have a rump like "Precious", eyes like a moldy branmuffin and a voice like Fran Drescher with a megaphone...

Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahah....LOLOLOLOLOL. Masterful comeback my eloquent friend. Now if I could just get the vision of this outta my head........

[tube fan]

Why give up low end if you don't have to? For $15,000, you can get it all. Rock without low bass? Jazz without low bass? Classical without low bass?

[SlumpBuster]

Miami bass without bass?

[atomicAdam]

Why give up low end if you don't have to? For $15,000, you can get it all. Rock without low bass? Jazz without low bass? Classical without low bass?

Well - sometimes you live in an apt building and don't want to get kicked out. For $15,000 you really shouldn't have compromising issues. In fact - I could put together a $15k system right now that would effectively be perfect for me.

Zu Omen Def - $3100
Melody AN211 - $5695
Rega P3/24 w/ wire upgrade - $1700
Sumiko Blackbird - $1000
$1000 phono amp
2 WyWires IC or Supra Sword ICs - $2000
WyWire Speaker cable or Supra Speaker Cable - $1000
$500 for a power cable or two.

$15000 vinyl set up.

I personally could live for a long time very happily with this set up.

[Ajani]

Well - sometimes you live in an apt building and don't want to get kicked out. For $15,000 you really shouldn't have compromising issues. In fact - I could put together a $15k system right now that would effectively be perfect for me.

Zu Omen Def - $3100
Melody AN211 - $5695
Rega P3/24 w/ wire upgrade - $1700
Sumiko Blackbird - $1000
$1000 phono amp
2 WyWires IC or Supra Sword ICs - $2000
WyWire Speaker cable or Supra Speaker Cable - $1000
$500 for a power cable or two.

$15000 vinyl set up.

I personally could live for a long time very happily with this set up.

I would rephrase that line to say that for $15K there should be no 'obvious' compromises. I would expect that as good as the system you suggested sounds, that it still isn't quite as good as the best systems you've heard (presumable for a lot more money)...

[JohnMichael]

How are we defining low bass? What frequency and -db range are we considering. I am down to about 40Hz in my room. I wonder how many of us have rooms that would support a 20Hz tone without digital frequency adjustments and some room treatments. I am satisfied without the first octave of bass equal to the midrange.

[Feanor]

How are we defining low bass? What frequency and -db range are we considering. I am down to about 40Hz in my room. I wonder how many of us have rooms that would support a 20Hz tone without digital frequency adjustments and some room treatments. I am satisfied without the first octave of bass equal to the midrange.

I think that's right, JM. Low bass to me too is below 40 Hz, i.e. the lowest octave of audible sound. In principle you'd need a room 28 feet in at least one dimension to reproduce 20 Hz. Lots of people have that, though.

My Magneplanar MG 1.6 are good to 45 Hz at least, but I do find my subwoofer helps a lot especially to get the bass that goes with those orchestral crescendos.

[Feanor]

Well - sometimes you live in an apt building and don't want to get kicked out. For $15,000 you really shouldn't have compromising issues. In fact - I could put together a $15k system right now that would effectively be perfect for me.

Zu Omen Def - $3100
Melody AN211 - $5695
Rega P3/24 w/ wire upgrade - $1700
Sumiko Blackbird - $1000
$1000 phono amp
2 WyWires IC or Supra Sword ICs - $2000
WyWire Speaker cable or Supra Speaker Cable - $1000
$500 for a power cable or two.

$15000 vinyl set up.

I personally could live for a long time very happily with this set up.

Ah ha! Finally: How to spend $15k!

Nice choices, aA, given you taste and predilections. (Maybe a little too much on cables and ICs.)

Personally my stereo system would look more like this:

• Magneplanar MG 3.7 speakers = $5500
• Rythmik F12SE subwoofer = $950
• NAD Master M2 Direct Digital Amplifier = $6000
• Blue Jeans Cable interconnects & speaker cables = $300
• Low-noise Win7 computer with plenty of disk storage and S/PDIF output = $600.
• NAD Master M5 SACD player = $1800

The SACD player is optional. Not having to worry about vinyl playback saves me a lot of money, of course.

[atomicAdam]

Magneplanar MG 3.7 speakers = $5500

I agree with you on these. If I wanted to go the high powered solid state route I'd take the 3.7 very quickly.

[tube fan]

Ah ha! Finally: How to spend $15k!

Nice choices, aA, given you taste and predilections. (Maybe a little too much on cables and ICs.)

Personally my stereo system would look more like this:

• Magneplanar MG 3.7 speakers = $5500
• Rythmik F12SE subwoofer = $950
• NAD Master M2 Direct Digital Amplifier = $6000
• Blue Jeans Cable interconnects & speaker cables = $300
• Low-noise Win7 computer with plenty of disk storage and S/PDIF output = $600.
• NAD Master M5 SACD player = $1800

The SACD player is optional. Not having to worry about vinyl playback saves me a lot of money, of course.

As I consider vinyl and analogue to be far superior to digital, living without analogue is something that I would not even begin to think of.

[SlumpBuster]

In principle you'd need a room 28 feet in at least one dimension to reproduce 20 Hz.

Not just "in principle," in actual practice too. I moved my sub to another room entirely with cross over at 50hz. It made a huge difference in low frequency impact.

And surprisingly, I don't think subs are really an area that requires too much compromise. A couple years ago I went looking for subs with $3500 in my pocket. Ended up with the Dayton Titanic for $650ish and I'm still pleased as punch. Now my mains... I've been feeling some upgraditis stirring.

[JohnMichael]

As I consider vinyl and analogue to be far superior to digital, living without analogue is something that I would not even begin to think of.

Good point as I will always want and need a turntable.

[Feanor]

As I consider vinyl and analogue to be far superior to digital, living without analogue is something that I would not even begin to think of.

I don't find digital all that bad, but the main reason I'm not interested in vinyl is that there is almost nothing on LP in the way of the classical music that I mostly listen to.

[E-Stat]

I agree with you on these. If I wanted to go the high powered solid state route I'd take the 3.7 very quickly.

Or, high powered tube route. I heard HP's 3.7s driven by Mac 2301s. It was phenomenally transparent, but had an $80k analog / digital system driving them.

rw

[pixelthis]

How are we defining low bass? What frequency and -db range are we considering. I am down to about 40Hz in my room. I wonder how many of us have rooms that would support a 20Hz tone without digital frequency adjustments and some room treatments. I am satisfied without the first octave of bass equal to the midrange.

20hz.
When my sub had its original 600w plate amp it could do it. Don't know if it will
now with the "interim" 130w I have hanging back there.
I DO have to admit TALKY was right. With today's speaker design you need a decent sub.
CAN'T do it anymore with a pair of bookshelves like when I started.
MOST designers take the "sub-sat" model as a given. Either that or floor standers.
But even most floorstanders can benefit from a decent sub.

[bobsticks]

What fullrange bookshelves were you using Pix?

[Feanor]

I agree with you on these. If I wanted to go the high powered solid state route I'd take the 3.7 very quickly.

Well, 60 wpc might do and you can get the from tubes well within a $15k budget. Personally I'd like to here my 1.6's driven by a pair of Triode Electronics modernized Dynaco Mark III's ... see here. If you needed more power you could passively bi-amp with two pairs of these, or one pair and a kickin' class D amp for the bass.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I think that's right, JM. Low bass to me too is below 40 Hz, i.e. the lowest octave of audible sound. In principle you'd need a room 28 feet in at least one dimension to reproduce 20 Hz. Lots of people have that, though.

This is not correct or subs in cars would not be able to produce anything below 120hz or so. We know that is not true. In a 12x15x10' room, I am able to get a clean 19hz with my H-PAS sub

My Magneplanar MG 1.6 are good to 45 Hz at least, but I do find my subwoofer helps a lot especially to get the bass that goes with those orchestral crescendos.

Feanor, Orchestra crescendo's come from you main speakers, not your subs. Are you referring to bass drum and organ pedal parts? That is where your subwoofer comes in.

[Hyfi]

What fullrange bookshelves were you using Pix?

I used to have a pair of these that had great bass.