View Poll Results: Should 'Audiophile' Brands Be Sold In Electronics Mega-Stores?

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  • Hell Yeah... More exposure = More Money = Keeping the industry alive

    13 44.83%
  • Nope, no chance... That move would only kill quality

    16 55.17%
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  1. #1
    Ajani
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    Should 'Audiophile' Brands Be Sold In Electronics Mega-Stores?

    Ok, it's a Friday and I'm bored, which means Poll Time!!!! So what do you think?

    Should 'Audiophile' Brands Be Sold In Electronics Mega-Stores?

    There's so much talk about whether or not dedicated HiFi is dying, so should traditional audio brands take a new stance? Should they consider moving away from the snotty small boutique shops and start offloading their entry level products on the major electronic stores (Best Buy, Future Shop, or even local 'mass market' stores)?

    Brands such as B&W, Revel, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Kef, NAD, Cambridge Audio, PSB etc... all have products that would fit into the price range of gear sold at mass market stores... So do you think they should attempt to increase both sales of entry level gear and market recognition by making the switch?

  2. #2
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Sure, as long as the sales guy is able to sell the product without employing the sock-it-to-'em tactics that Best Buy, Circuit City use to appeal to the masses....

    Um, I just stepped in big pile of contradiction there, didn't I?

  3. #3
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    Sure, as long as the sales guy is able to sell the product without employing the sock-it-to-'em tactics that Best Buy, Circuit City use to appeal to the masses....

    Um, I just stepped in big pile of contradiction there, didn't I?
    Yes you did, and you betta wipe your feet before coming into the forum, or you will hear from Pixie.
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  4. #4
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    Sure, as long as the sales guy is able to sell the product without employing the sock-it-to-'em tactics that Best Buy, Circuit City use to appeal to the masses....

    Um, I just stepped in big pile of contradiction there, didn't I?
    Hmmm, I've found the salesmen in boutique shops to employ frustatingly stupid tactics as well....

    Also, I probably should have mentioned in my initial post that a few brands already do this... such as Martin Logan and Klipsch (which maybe why Klipsch doesn't seem to get much respect for their Synergy and reference ranges)...

  5. #5
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    some of them are here (not in all 'mass market' stores), B&W and Denon mostly, but also Focal and so...

    the salesmen know next to nothing about the products though...

    I don't think many people would buy true 'audiophile' products in mega stores, after all, why would you buy something that costs 3 or 4 times more than anything else in the shop, while the salesman can't 'tell' you why it's better...
    and most likely, you can't even decide for yourself that it's better, because you cannot properly audition it...

    add to that that some high end manufacturers don't want their products being sold in a store where the salesmen don't have any knowledge about their product...

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  6. #6
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    some of them are here (not in all 'mass market' stores), B&W and Denon mostly, but also Focal and so...

    the salesmen know next to nothing about the products though...

    I don't think many people would buy true 'audiophile' products in mega stores, after all, why would you buy something that costs 3 or 4 times more than anything else in the shop, while the salesman can't 'tell' you why it's better...
    and most likely, you can't even decide for yourself that it's better, because you cannot properly audition it...

    add to that that some high end manufacturers don't want their products being sold in a store where the salesmen don't have any knowledge about their product...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Good points... though I wouldn't suggest they sell their really expensive gear in the store... only products that are in or at least near the price range of gear already in the store... (unless the store has a proper, dedicated listening room for better gear)...

    I think the best examples are 2 stores in Toronto: Bay Bloor Radio and Kromer Radio (I'm sure both would be highly offended at being called mass market stores, but by comparision to boutique audio shops, they fit the bill)... Both stores sell a range of products from car stereos, Ipods and mass market receivers, dvd players etc... to quality 2channel gear from Arcam, Totem, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, NAD, PSB etc... Hmmm... maybe I should call them "in between" stores... Stores big enough to sell mass market gear and draw crowds, but small enough to maintain properly trained salesmen...

  7. #7
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    I have no problem with Big Box stores selling high-end anything if they do it right.
    I don't have much faith in their ability to do it right under their one-size-fits-all policy framework, and I don't think they go out of their way to create the best conditions for selling audio gear.

    But if they did, it'd be great - many smaller cities and towns would never have an audio store that could carry some high end lines, but a big-box store could make a go of it if they did it right.

    At the end of the day I buy the product, not the distribution channel.

  8. #8
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Yes you did, and you betta wipe your feet before coming into the forum, or you will hear from Pixie.
    Oooooooooooooooooh.....
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  9. #9
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Bay Bloor Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    Good points... though I wouldn't suggest they sell their really expensive gear in the store... only products that are in or at least near the price range of gear already in the store... (unless the store has a proper, dedicated listening room for better gear)...

    I think the best examples are 2 stores in Toronto: Bay Bloor Radio and Kromer Radio (I'm sure both would be highly offended at being called mass market stores, but by comparision to boutique audio shops, they fit the bill)... Both stores sell a range of products from car stereos, Ipods and mass market receivers, dvd players etc... to quality 2channel gear from Arcam, Totem, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, NAD, PSB etc... Hmmm... maybe I should call them "in between" stores... Stores big enough to sell mass market gear and draw crowds, but small enough to maintain properly trained salesmen...
    I live and worked on Toronto for a good many years and knew Bay Bloor very well. You have typified it quite accurately. They always carried a good range of products. The last time I visited was about five years ago but the tradition lived on at that time.

    The original owner, Saul Mandelson, and his son employed a number of career salesman. In fact at that last visit I spoke with a guy who I knew worked there for at least 25 years. Of these guys it may be said that they weren't as arrogant or opinionated as the typical boutique types, yet they knew the products they were selling.
    Last edited by Feanor; 08-09-2008 at 08:49 AM.

  10. #10
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I live and worked on Toronto for a good many years and knew Bay Bloor very well. You have typified it quite accurately. They always carried a good range of products. The last time I visited was about five years ago but the tradition lived on at that time.

    The original owner, Saul Mandelson, and his son employed a number of career salesman. In fact at that last visit I spoke with a guy who I thw had worked there for at least 25 years. Of these guys it may be said that they weren't as arrogant or opinionated as is often the case at the boutique types, yet they knew the products they were selling.
    My first week in Toronto, I bought a NAD Amp/CD Combo and a pair of Mission floorstanders from Bay Bloor Radio.... It's a good example of the kind of stores I'd like to see more of....

  11. #11
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    I haven't seen that kind of videostore in America yet, and think that the Canadian model is the best thing that the boutique brands can hope for. IMHO, Audiophilia is not the vibrant market it once was. Mebbe I should find another forum for this comment, but it has always been a niche market and, with the increasing popularity of ready-to-go music sources, the quick fix will trounce traditional, sedentary sources unless they (a) position their markets for more accessibility, (b) adopt some of the quick-fix technology to their own line, and (c) broaden their appeal and spruce up the snob-status-symbol image. Again, IMHO, the plug and play format is extremely appealing, and is winning over a very eager, young, techie base that may quite overshadow the eager, yet generally older crowd whose interest in things musical and technological may no longer be relevant....

  12. #12
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    I haven't seen that kind of videostore in America yet, and think that the Canadian model is the best thing that the boutique brands can hope for. IMHO, Audiophilia is not the vibrant market it once was. Mebbe I should find another forum for this comment, but it has always been a niche market and, with the increasing popularity of ready-to-go music sources, the quick fix will trounce traditional, sedentary sources unless they (a) position their markets for more accessibility, (b) adopt some of the quick-fix technology to their own line, and (c) broaden their appeal and spruce up the snob-status-symbol image. Again, IMHO, the plug and play format is extremely appealing, and is winning over a very eager, young, techie base that may quite overshadow the eager, yet generally older crowd whose interest in things musical and technological may no longer be relevant....
    Agreed... I've always said that if Audio Companies really want to ensure that they have profitability (or even jobs) in the future, then they need to look beyond just appealing to wealthy middle-aged to retired vinyl lovers with their $10K+ Speakers... and start trying to appeal to the younger ipod/computer generations... and they need to let go of the snotty attitudes and the retarded notions that unless you are willing to sell your house, wife and children's souls to get the most expensive planar/turntable system possible, that you don't care about sound quality... younger generations want BOTH sound quality and convenience... There is opportunity for these audio companies to make money and not be totally niche market, but they need to start living in the present to see the opportunities...

    The good news is that several Audio Companies are producing products designed to embrace modern trends... aka USB inputs and Music Servers... too bad most of these companies are pricing these products out of the range of the people who would actually buy them...

  13. #13
    Forum Regular filecat13's Avatar
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    Sorry, couldn't vote in the poll as the two choices kinda had that end-of-the-week brain fart quality to them. (no offense)

    Still I think your overall point in the opening post is a great topic.

    Honestly, I don't think it matters whether the audiophile brands get into stores or not. Their core market is dying, and they're not relating to the emerging markets very well.

    I can't see how increasing their overhead and putting demo units out (which ultimately lose value) really gets them anything.

    There's a fancy, upscale mall nearby that had a Bang and Olafson store in it. Perhaps not audiophile in the mind of many, but certainly high priced. It didn't last a year, despite having a wide range of products and an excellent listening environment. All I ever saw in there were old men. (Yes, even older than me at the time.)

    Not too far away was a Magnolia, that had a number of high end offerings as well as several entry and mid level products. This was before the Best Buy assimilation and destruction of the brand. That store had four terrific listening rooms and good staff. All I ever saw in there were old men. It closed after 18 months.

    Lest you think that this highly affluent zip code had only old men living in it, there was also a Bose Store, which was perpetually filled with young adults spending lots of cash. It looked like the most popular destination in the mall until the Apple Store opened up.

    Point is, I don't think the average consumer, well-heeled or not, is going out of his or her way to seek out audiophile style equipment. They're happy with good enough.

    Companies like Bose and JBL, as well as some "resurrected" brands like Altec Lansing, are making a killing in the iPod/MP3 player ecosystem, while others ignore the market. When those convenience consumers finally decide to get a stationary system, they won't be looking to brands they never heard of.
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  14. #14
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by filecat13
    Sorry, couldn't vote in the poll as the two choices kinda had that end-of-the-week brain fart quality to them. (no offense)

    Still I think your overall point in the opening post is a great topic.


    Ummm... thanx...

    Quote Originally Posted by filecat13
    Honestly, I don't think it matters whether the audiophile brands get into stores or not. Their core market is dying, and they're not relating to the emerging markets very well.

    I can't see how increasing their overhead and putting demo units out (which ultimately lose value) really gets them anything.

    There's a fancy, upscale mall nearby that had a Bang and Olafson store in it. Perhaps not audiophile in the mind of many, but certainly high priced. It didn't last a year, despite having a wide range of products and an excellent listening environment. All I ever saw in there were old men. (Yes, even older than me at the time.)

    Not too far away was a Magnolia, that had a number of high end offerings as well as several entry and mid level products. This was before the Best Buy assimilation and destruction of the brand. That store had four terrific listening rooms and good staff. All I ever saw in there were old men. It closed after 18 months.

    Lest you think that this highly affluent zip code had only old men living in it, there was also a Bose Store, which was perpetually filled with young adults spending lots of cash. It looked like the most popular destination in the mall until the Apple Store opened up.

    Point is, I don't think the average consumer, well-heeled or not, is going out of his or her way to seek out audiophile style equipment. They're happy with good enough.

    Companies like Bose and JBL, as well as some "resurrected" brands like Altec Lansing, are making a killing in the iPod/MP3 player ecosystem, while others ignore the market. When those convenience consumers finally decide to get a stationary system, they won't be looking to brands they never heard of.
    Interesting point on the Bose Store... The top floor of Bay Bloor Radio is a Bose Store... so they pretty much have all the reasons average consumers would go into an electronics store covered....

    The really sad part is that audiophiles waste so much time bashing Bose and (to a much lesser extent) JBL and Klipsch for catering to the mass market, while failing to realize that long after these "Boutique Stores" and Brands are out of business, Bose will still be making money.... Time to stop hating and start competing...

  15. #15
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    Yeah, time to dig in the heels.....Somehow or another, Klipsch and Bose have managed to weather it out, in spite of themselves. I'm not going to get into a Bose or Klipsch bash, but do want to underscore your point that the market is heading towards the young and the hip. I haven't read any stereo-mags in awhile, but have had my "feelers" out long enough to recognize a trend, and I think it indicates that the old-men-in-the-salons phenom is fading away...grudgingly, but still fading.

    It's a shame that the standard has come to a point that "good enough" flies. While there will always be, no doubt, people whose ears are highly tuned instruments and whose attention span will enable them to detect the very nuances that make great musical performance, this market will--IMHO--continue to lose ground.

    So, what, Oh Best Beloved, do we do to keep us off the slippery slope?

    Or are we doomed to plug in the I-Pod when we settle into our electric wheelchairs as we speed toward the local liquor store....?

  16. #16
    Forum Regular filecat13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani

    The really sad part is that audiophiles waste so much time bashing Bose and (to a much lesser extent) JBL and Klipsch for catering to the mass market, while failing to realize that long after these "Boutique Stores" and Brands are out of business, Bose will still be making money.... Time to stop hating and start competing...
    One of the things I like about JBL is its long history and the fact that it's still covering the high end as well as the low end. If I had $60*, I could buy a pair of JBL speakers and a subwoofer. If I had $6000, I could buy a full-sized home theater system (Studio L Series) or some really nice stereo speakers (pair of Array 1000 or Performance Series). If I had $60,000, I could buy a pair of some of the best speakers in the world (Everest II). Okay, I could get on the waiting list anyway.

    The volume of sales on the low end stuff helps to prop up the sales of the high end stuff, and there's a natural bridge for the low end buyer to come back to a known brand for the next purchase.

    On a couple of other forums, I'm surprised at the growing number of posters who are coming on line and reporting that they just got their first "high end system," a set of JBLs from the low end of the loudspeaker range but high priced to them at nearly $1000 for five speakers and a sub. A few months later they're back asking about the next line or the line above that.

    I suspect a lot of people get into a brand and keep moving up the chain. If there's no place for a customer to build brand affinity when he or she starts a the bottom, there'll be no brand loyalty later on. Studies show that brand loyalty is a big deal to many young consumers, and brands that don't build affinity early in a shopper's buying history have a hard time converting them later, especially if there's inconvenience attached, such as having to search for a place where the product is sold.




    *In fact I did that with the JBL Creature 2. Didn't even need an amp or preamp. Just plug in the iPod and I've got a good sounding stereo system with a sub. All the kids at school love it (or they would if it were 40 years ago and I were still in high school).
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  17. #17
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by filecat13
    Not too far away was a Magnolia, that had a number of high end offerings as well as several entry and mid level products. This was before the Best Buy assimilation and destruction of the brand. That store had four terrific listening rooms and good staff. All I ever saw in there were old men. It closed after 18 months.
    If you're living in L.A., you would not have seen a pre-Best Buy owned Magnolia location, so I don't know what you mean by "assimilation and destruction of the brand." Best Buy acquired Magnolia back in 2000, and their expansion into California occurred only because Best Buy had the deep pockets to finance that expansion. Magnolia's entry into the California market basically knocked both Good Guys and Tweeter out.

    Most of the standalone Magnolia locations remain in place because they serve the home installation market where the margins remain healthy. The issue on the retail side is that audio stores simply can't stay in business by only selling components anymore.

    If anything, I think BB has smartly leveraged the Magnolia brand by moving Magnolia ministores into their Best Buy stores. This expands access to higher end brands, while still keeping some separation from the mass market offerings on the Best Buy floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by filecat13
    Point is, I don't think the average consumer, well-heeled or not, is going out of his or her way to seek out audiophile style equipment. They're happy with good enough.
    And this is nothing new. That's how the market has always been. Back in the 70s, the majority of consumers were purchasing cheap portable record changers and all-in-one compact systems, the 80s were dominated by boomboxes and Walkmans, the 90s saw the emergence of mini-systems and portable CD players, and this decade it's all about the iPod.
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  18. #18
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    This poll is ignoring one crucial reason why so-called "audiophile" brands stayed out of big box stores in the first place -- the relationships with the dealers themselves. An audio company cannot simply dump their entry level products into the big box chains without potential repercussions from their independent dealer network.

    filecat13 cited JBL as an example of a company that makes entry level speakers and high end products. Well, when was the last time you actually saw a U.S. dealer that carried any of the JBL high end products? At one point, JBL had one of the biggest independent dealer networks of any audio company. But, when JBL began selling their products at big box stores, those dealers dumped JBL in droves. Their rationale was very simple -- why should I promote my competition?

    This coincided with the rise of the Canadian speaker companies like Paradigm, Energy, PSB, et al. Many of JBL's former dealers picked up these brands and others like B&W to provide the same entry level to high-end coverage that JBL offered. These dealers are given territorial exclusivity, and in return, these independent dealers help promote the brand and provide a certain level of service.

    When JBL went mass market, their brand equity took a nose dive, because those stores offered inadequate demo facilities and indifferent service. And those stores did not carry anything beyond JBL's entry level lines. Overseas, JBL still has a decent reputation precisely because there are still stores that carry their high end offerings (and many of their speakers are tailored to the local markets and built in Denmark).

    With the decline in the number of independent audio stores and regional specialty chains, I think that there is recognition by some companies that they have to get in with the Best Buys and Circuit Cities. This is why companies like Klipsch and Yamaha began separating their specialty lines from their other lines. Klipsch now only sells their Synergy line at Best Buy, while Yamaha created the HTR designation for their receivers.

    The danger with overreliance on these big box chains is that they can drop a brand, and that company would suddenly lose more than half of their dealer network. Just look at what happened to Harman International. Circuit City had carried the Harman brands (h/k, JBL, and Infinity) for decades, yet they dropped Harman in favor of the D&M brands (Denon, Boston Acoustics).
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  19. #19
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Nothing stops the big box stores from carrying these products now except for a couple minor issues.
    1. They don't want to.
    2. The customers don' want it.
    3. The sellers don't want it.

    Imagine Joe Ordinary: "Why is this Conrad Johnson $5,000 when the $159 Pioneer has the same watts, more knobs and those cool blinking lights?"

    Salesman: Picking his nose and scratching his butt, " I dunno, I'm just here on summer break and they made us promise not to say anything useful." "I own the Pioneer, it's just great!" "Over here are some $139 speakers you could listen for yourself and decide."
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  20. #20
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    Yeah, time to dig in the heels.....Somehow or another, Klipsch and Bose have managed to weather it out, in spite of themselves. I'm not going to get into a Bose or Klipsch bash, but do want to underscore your point that the market is heading towards the young and the hip. I haven't read any stereo-mags in awhile, but have had my "feelers" out long enough to recognize a trend, and I think it indicates that the old-men-in-the-salons phenom is fading away...grudgingly, but still fading.
    Bose is a different animal from other companies because they're the only audio company that does a lot of national TV advertising. They're well known because of this, and because if you're comparing a Bose system with standard TV speakers, this is the improvement that most consumers hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    It's a shame that the standard has come to a point that "good enough" flies.
    As with my response to filecat13, I will say that the standard was never higher than "good enough" to begin with for the majority of the market. And in fact, I think that the audio quality right now for the majority of the market is head and shoulders above what the average listener was listening to 20 years ago.

    For all of the bashing on MP3s, would anybody rather listen to prerecorded cassettes and Walkmans?


    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    While there will always be, no doubt, people whose ears are highly tuned instruments and whose attention span will enable them to detect the very nuances that make great musical performance, this market will--IMHO--continue to lose ground.
    How can the market lose ground when most of it never occupied the high ground to begin with? If your focus is on the high end, it's not like you have a dearth of choices there. Even with the midlevel market, the quality of the gear in the affordable price points is actually better than ever, if you consider inflation. For example, my dad's Marantz 2275 receiver cost $600 back in 1976, which is the equivalent of more than $2,000 today. Think it would be hard to find a superior option at that price or even at $600 today?
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  21. #21
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that most "audiophiles" (which was the classification in the title of the thread) don't want to buy their speakers amongst the unwashed. For real equipment fanatics this would be unaceptable. Think cars; there's a difference between a Hyundai and a restored '57 Chevy...and in some circles there's certainly more esprit de corps and status in the latter.

    Also, from a supply-side you have to have the production capability to insure timely replenshment to the retailer. That's an awful lot of specialized product to fill the shelves of several thousand B&Ms.

    ...and all that stuff Woochie said too.

  22. #22
    Forum Regular dread31's Avatar
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    Nope. Am I the only one that's noticed that once a "High End" product hits the mass market----it turns into "run-of-the-mill"? And that's not being "snobby", it's just being realistic. "Mass Market" generally means huge volumes of mediocre (Quickly and cheaply made.) products sold at low prices. "High End" generally means limited production, with extra care taken in design and manufacture, using premium, close tolerance parts.
    You can keep costs down somewhat by manufacturing overseas, but high end gear is still going to be more expensive than mass market.

    Now, I'm not saying that the mid-level of the industry hasn't made good gear. They certainly have, and at a price more folks can afford. And that's a wonderful thing.
    But, I think putting true highend gear on the shelves at Best Buy will do little more than show the mass market consumer that the best gear in the world is still out of their reach. And do little to nothing for high end sales figures.

    If you take a high end product and produce it at high volumes with cheaper parts,
    so that the Circuit City shopper can afford it, ------is it still "high end"?

    In my estimation, the answer is no.

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  23. #23
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Well said, Dave. And welcome to the forums.

  24. #24
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dread31
    Nope. Am I the only one that's noticed that once a "High End" product hits the mass market----it turns into "run-of-the-mill"? And that's not being "snobby", it's just being realistic. "Mass Market" generally means huge volumes of mediocre (Quickly and cheaply made.) products sold at low prices. "High End" generally means limited production, with extra care taken in design and manufacture, using premium, close tolerance parts.
    You can keep costs down somewhat by manufacturing overseas, but high end gear is still going to be more expensive than mass market.
    No I haven't noticed. What brands are you thinking of specifically? Among the lines carried by Best Buy, I can't think of one that was at any point once exclusively in the high end domain and became a mediocre mass market product.

    Quote Originally Posted by dread31
    Now, I'm not saying that the mid-level of the industry hasn't made good gear. They certainly have, and at a price more folks can afford. And that's a wonderful thing.
    But, I think putting true highend gear on the shelves at Best Buy will do little more than show the mass market consumer that the best gear in the world is still out of their reach. And do little to nothing for high end sales figures.
    That's why Best Buy smartly placed its higher end gear inside of the Magnolia ministores, which are found inside of select BB locations. Magnolia stores carry Martin Logan, Vienna Acoustics, McIntosh, Primare, and Krell, among other brands.

    The problem with your assertion is that the number of high end audio stores is dwindling, and Best Buy in particular has been positioning itself within the higher end market thru its Magnolia subsidiary. It's at a point where manufacturers have fewer and fewer retail options available, and in many communities, the Magnolia ministore is the only place within 100 miles where consumers can sample anything beyond the mass market brands. It takes a big population base to support a high end audio store, which leaves a lot of outlying areas with no options whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by dread31
    If you take a high end product and produce it at high volumes with cheaper parts,
    so that the Circuit City shopper can afford it, ------is it still "high end"?

    In my estimation, the answer is no.
    Again, please cite an example. I can't think of anything sold at Circuit City that fits this description of a former high end product cheapened by mass production.
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  25. #25
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Hey Woochie,

    I can't speak for Dread, but I don't really consider Magnolia a part of Best Buy per se. Subsidiary, yes but clearly they're a separated entity...different payrolls, distribution and replenishment systems, etc. Hence, not every BB having a Magnolia in it.

    Mebbe we need to clarify "Electronics Mega-Stores". I was thinking of Best Buy proper, CC, Fry's and so forth

    ---sticks

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