Should 'Audiophile' Brands Be Sold In Electronics Mega-Stores?

[Woochifer]

I'm not a fellow of micro-economics but I've spent my fair share of time in Audio/Computer megastores in the last 10 years. The only box store I ever purchased audio from was "Tweeters" which is now long gone. And all I got in there was an open box, basic Sony HT Receiver for an ex-girlfriend. As for high end in the box stores too risky and more prone to failure than success, so my answer would be no.

All the manufacturer will wind up doing is demean his brands cache and squander resources trying to sell Kobe Beef in a MacDonalds. Even the Mega Audio store concept is a failure. Those stores Tweeters etc.. have come and gone but the handfull of boutique audio stores here in the State Capital just keep chuggin' along. I go in them to test certain products but their costs are prohibitive to me for big ticket items.

Bottom line is I think that selling high price gear in megabox stores is a mistake. It dilutes the quality of the product line in a quest for sales that are non-existent. They're thinking Bose not Bryston.

Da Worfster

Tweeter is still around, but they've pulled out of most regions including California. It's a shame too because Tweeter became a national chain by acquiring smaller audio chains that operated regionally. They gained entry into the California market by gobbling up the Dow Stereo chain in San Diego (I miss the old Dow radio commercials "D-O-W! Dow now!"), and then opening up additonal Tweeter locations around L.A.

I recall that they also bought up regional chains in Illinois, Georgia, and Florida, among others, and racked up a load of debt and pissed off customers in the process (partly because Tweeter jettisoned many of the product lines carried by the acquired stores in order to insert their own preferred lines).

The high end salons are not the most endangered species in audio retailing, it's really the midlevel specialty chains that are dying off the fastest. A few years ago, the middle market in California was dominated by Good Guys, Tweeter, and Magnolia. These stores basically got most of their revenue through component sales, and nowadays that kind of strategy doesn't work anymore. Now, Magnolia's the only one left standing, if only because they are owned by Best Buy.

I think the void getting created in the middle market is what has pushed Best Buy to begin installing Magnolia sections, which do carry high end brands, inside their megastores. It has also opened up market opportunities for other businesses that might be interested in selling middle market gear.

[bobsticks]

Oh, and just because I'm so hardheaded----I still vote ---No.

Yeah... I've decided that I like Dave.

[GMichael]

Tweeter is still around, but they've pulled out of most regions including California. It's a shame too because Tweeter became a national chain by acquiring smaller audio chains that operated regionally. They gained entry into the California market by gobbling up the Dow Stereo chain in San Diego (I miss the old Dow radio commercials "D-O-W! Dow now!"), and then opening up additional Tweeter locations around L.A.

I recall that they also bought up regional chains in Illinois, Georgia, and Florida, among others, and racked up a load of debt and pissed off customers in the process (partly because Tweeter jettisoned many of the product lines carried by the acquired stores in order to insert their own preferred lines).

The high end salons are not the most endangered species in audio retailing, it's really the midlevel specialty chains that are dying off the fastest. A few years ago, the middle market in California was dominated by Good Guys, Tweeter, and Magnolia. These stores basically got most of their revenue through component sales, and nowadays that kind of strategy doesn't work anymore. Now, Magnolia's the only one left standing, if only because they are owned by Best Buy.

I think the void getting created in the middle market is what has pushed Best Buy to begin installing Magnolia sections, which do carry high end brands, inside their mega stores. It has also opened up market opportunities for other businesses that might be interested in selling middle market gear.

Every time that I have entered a Magnolia section of a BB, I was the only one in there. Couldn't get a Sales Person to even acknowledge that I was there let alone give me any help.

Tweeter still seems to be doing well in CT though. They always seem to have a dozen or so customers in there with at least 4 Sales Reps helping people.

[dread31]

Yeah... I've decided that I like Dave.

Why, Thank You!

My dogma is my emotional security blanket. I won't go anywhere without it.

Dave

[filecat13]

Actually, the Torrance location's the only full sized Magnolia store in California I know of that has closed since the BB stores began appearing. All of the Bay Area locations have remained open.

That's good for the Bay Area, but the reality is that BB closed six Magnolia Stores in August and September 2007:

Arden Fair CA, Clackamas OR, Colma CA, Silverdale WA, Tacoma WA, and Torrance CA.

BB closed another store prior to those six, leaving it with 13 standalone stores, the same number--though not the same stores--as when it first bought the small chain.

During that time period, BB opened 30 in-store Magnolia Home Theater sections in "flagship" locations.

[Chas Underhay]

Ok, it's a Friday and I'm bored, which means Poll Time!!!! So what do you think?

Should 'Audiophile' Brands Be Sold In Electronics Mega-Stores?

There's so much talk about whether or not dedicated HiFi is dying, so should traditional audio brands take a new stance? Should they consider moving away from the snotty small boutique shops and start offloading their entry level products on the major electronic stores (Best Buy, Future Shop, or even local 'mass market' stores)?

I don't know what it's like in the US but in the UK when I was a kid you could go into town and there'd be a butcher, a baker, a grocer, a news agent, a record shop, a hardware shop, a couple of cloths shops etc etc.

You could go into the butcher and order specific types and cuts of meat, You could order specialist magazines from the news agent an get them delivered to your door, The record shop would order records for you and if the hardware shop didn't have the tool you wanted in stock they would order one for you.

Fast forward to the present day and what have we got; a supermarket and a DIY superstore and that's about all. The supermarket quickly put the butcher, the baker and the grocer out of business but they also sell the top 100 CDs so that put the record shop out of business as well, but try and get the supermarket to order a CD for you. They put the news agent out of business but try and get the supermarket to order in a specialist magazine for you, and as for getting it delivered, forget it! They also sell a range of cheap sh1t clothes, cookingware, TVs, stereos and DVD players. You have to take or leave what they choose to stock because alternatives have already or are rapidly disappearing.

The electronics mega stores will cream off only the best selling audiophile equipment, this will put the spcialist HI FI shop out of business and that will be the end of your choices -"this is what we stock, take it or leave it" and there is nowhere else left to go. It doesn't matter how much their staff may know about the equipment or how well they can demonstrate it, your choices will have gone.

[hermanv]

This goes directly back to my discussion about commodities, if price is the ONLY consideration, we will end up exactly as Chaz Underhay predicts.

Ferrari cars are obscenely priced, but they are products not commodities, few will contradict that there is something quite special about their cars. They will survive because even selling a couple of them a year will cover the overhead on a small store. This is not true of high end audio equipment, selling a couple of cables, even ones priced to near silliness will not cover rent and salary of a small store.

So if a big box retailer decides to carry high end there will be two consequences; 1. That product will slowly devolve to the lowest common denominator, i.e. it will become mass market competitive or in my opinion, junk. 2. The local shop selling specialty products will see their profits shrink to point where they will prefer to close rather than poor endless monies to a lost cause.

[dread31]

Hear, hear!

[emaidel]

To fully illustrate why high end gear doesn't belong in mass market retailers, or "megastores," allow me to describe a fiasco at dbx back around 1988.

dbx had a CD player with a proprietary circuit called, "DAIR," for Digital Audio Impact Recovery. DAIR worked nicely, and added a bit of snap to many CD's and Stereo Review, as usual, went nuts over it, but it was a very expensive CD player, and didn't sound quite as good as a comparably priced Denon unit.

The president of dbx ordered a huge number of these players (from the manufacturer, Kyocera), and then got furiously angry because they weren't selling like the Toshiba boxes he was used to selling before coming to dbx. I felt that, if I were given $25 per unit, I could use that money to pay the dealer salesman an extra incentive (called "spiffs" in the industry), or give the dealer additional advertising money, or a multitude of different applications. My suggestion was ignored.

Then, the president, a good friend with the professional thieves running a New York retailer called, "The Wiz" came up with his own, "original" idea: if they bought 1,000 of these CD players, he'd give them $25,000 in advertising money. (Wonder where that idea came from!)

I was adamantly opposed to selling The Wiz any dbx prduct, because the salespeople were about one or two degrees above plant life, and not in any way capable of explaining to their customers what "DAIR" was, or how it worked. The president also gave a "back door" to The Wiz (that is, he allowed them to return any unsold product) after a few months. I saw the end long before it came.

The Wiz spent the $25,000 (not that hard to do in New York), and then, after the allotted time was up, said they wanted to return those that hadn't sold. How many did they want to return? Try 900!!

Of course, the president blamed me, and the New York rep for the sales failure, but the blame fell squarely on his shoulders: certain products don't belong in certain retailers, and any audio gear that requires an effort to sell it will fall flat on its face in big box, megastores, just as this CD player did.

In the end, The Wiz returned over 900 unsold units, including those on demo which were dirty and scratched, and also had spent the $25,000. And guess who got fired? The "geniuis" president! So, at least I had some satisfaction!

[Worf101]

Da Wiz - God how many of those guys are doing time right now. They put the gon in "gonif". After they "reorganized" under Chapter 11 they opened a megastore here in Albany at the premier mall at the time Crossgates. They lasted about 1.5 or 2 years before going belly up again. If you didn't know what you were about they covered you in KY Jelly when you walked in the door. When they were going under though the bargains were "impressive".

Da Worfster

[Ajani]

To fully illustrate why high end gear doesn't belong in mass market retailers, or "megastores," allow me to describe a fiasco at dbx back around 1988.

dbx had a CD player with a proprietary circuit called, "DAIR," for Digital Audio Impact Recovery. DAIR worked nicely, and added a bit of snap to many CD's and Stereo Review, as usual, went nuts over it, but it was a very expensive CD player, and didn't sound quite as good as a comparably priced Denon unit.

The president of dbx ordered a huge number of these players (from the manufacturer, Kyocera), and then got furiously angry because they weren't selling like the Toshiba boxes he was used to selling before coming to dbx. I felt that, if I were given $25 per unit, I could use that money to pay the dealer salesman an extra incentive (called "spiffs" in the industry), or give the dealer additional advertising money, or a multitude of different applications. My suggestion was ignored.

Then, the president, a good friend with the professional thieves running a New York retailer called, "The Wiz" came up with his own, "original" idea: if they bought 1,000 of these CD players, he'd give them $25,000 in advertising money. (Wonder where that idea came from!)

I was adamantly opposed to selling The Wiz any dbx prduct, because the salespeople were about one or two degrees above plant life, and not in any way capable of explaining to their customers what "DAIR" was, or how it worked. The president also gave a "back door" to The Wiz (that is, he allowed them to return any unsold product) after a few months. I saw the end long before it came.

The Wiz spent the $25,000 (not that hard to do in New York), and then, after the allotted time was up, said they wanted to return those that hadn't sold. How many did they want to return? Try 900!!

Of course, the president blamed me, and the New York rep for the sales failure, but the blame fell squarely on his shoulders: certain products don't belong in certain retailers, and any audio gear that requires an effort to sell it will fall flat on its face in big box, megastores, just as this CD player did.

In the end, The Wiz returned over 900 unsold units, including those on demo which were dirty and scratched, and also had spent the $25,000. And guess who got fired? The "geniuis" president! So, at least I had some satisfaction!

Interesting points, but they better illustrate why high end (luxury) gear shouldn't be sold by crooks with stupid return policies, than the issue of megastores...

I think both megastores and boutique stores are having trouble selling cheap and expensive gear respectively... Megastores probably have a rough time because of internet sales from both legitimate and illegitimate competitors. While Boutique stores suffer majorly, because of both the shift towards video and just a general lack of advertizing by the high-end audo community.

I remember walking into a Future Shop store in Toronto a few years ago, to check out a pair of JBL speakers. When I asked the salesman to turn them on, he said that they weren't connected, so I should just buy them and if I don't like them, exchange them for something else... Needless to say, I just left the store without buying anything. If I wanted to just home audition, I would have ordered straight off the net.

On the other hand, I saw 2 boutique stores close down in the same year while I was in Toronto. Both stores had very knowledgable sales staff, who were really willing to let you do a prolonged audition of whatever gear they had on hand... So what was the problem? Well, apart from when I took a friend with me to audition gear, I was usually the only customer in the store. The only reason I knew that the stores existed was because I researched local dealers for specific brands on the brands' websites. How many people (other than existing audiophiles) will do that? How many persons just walking along the street, who see and decide to check out the store, would buy something in the price range of a boutique store product?