Rock&Roll is dead, but Hip-Hop is alive and kicking.

[Smokey]

Been listening to Rock for last 25 years and 95% of my collection is Rock, but latest Rock music scenes is really disheartening. There is no soul to recent Rock music, everybodys hollering, jumping up and down and they pass it as music.

But looks like Hip-Hop music picked up where Rock left off and kicked it into high gear. In the 80s, groups likes Public Enemy, Run DMC and LLCoolJ blazed the trail for Hip-Hop, and that tradition continue today by Dr Dre, Chingy, R. Kelly, Snoop Dog and others.

Hopefully we will see the resurrection of Rock music.

[JSE]

Rock is annoying as hell right now. I am a die hard rocker at heart but most of today's rock groups SUCK. You really have to look for decent bands now and then when you buy their CD, one or two songs are good and the rest SUCK! Just today, I learned that one of my favorite bands of all time, Living Color, just release a new cd. I thought, hell yes, the band is back in action after 10 years. Burnin Vernon is back. So, I went straight to Best Buy at lunch and bought it. Know what?

IT SUCKS!

Burnin Vernon's flame has gone out and the whole CD is horrible. I wish I never heard it because now one of my favorite bands in the recent past, now SUCKS! And when I say it SUCKS, it really really SUCKS! Did I say it SUCKS?

Anyway sorry to went but that's the way I feel about the present state of ROCK! I heard Van Hagar is getting back together. It will probably SUCK too. Guess Ed needs some money. When and if Pantera get's back together, they better not SUCK!

Man Smoke, you got me all stirred up now!


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


JSE!

[spacedeckman]

for a few years.

This is a hiding time.

The rap/hip-hop thing is scary. A bunch of illiterate, uneducated thugs, who rap songs worshipping themselves, getting a whole bunch of teenagers and pre-teens thinking its cool to be an uneducated illiterate thug. We won't get into the violence and disrespect/disregard for others.

Pulled my 14 year old niece out of a crack house a couple of weeks ago. Decent family, but got into the rap thing, started hanging around the wrong people. Stopped doing any of her schoolwork, and now talks like a "gang bangin' crack 'ho". All her friends have that "attitude". I remember the "metal head losers" from when I was a kid, but they were pretty tame.


Space.

[grampi]

There is no such thing as new rock music. It may be called rock, but it ain't rock. Problem is, none of these artists today have 1/100th of the talent the artists of the 70's had. They can't write the music, they can't sing, and they can't play the instruments like the groups of the 70's. How many of today's groups can write a seemingly endless number of killer tunes like Styx did? How many of today's singers can belt out the vocals like Lou Gramm could? How many of today's guitar players can pick like Ace Frehley? How many of today's drummers can pound a set of drums like Neil Pert? The answer to all these questions is none. That's why I listen to either 70's rock, or today's country. Believe it or not, a lot of it sounds like 70's contemporary music. It's not too bad.

[Smokey]

The rap/hip-hop thing is scary.

I think you may have to distinguish between Hip-Hop and Rap. At least to me in Hip-Hop, music comes first and then lyrics follow. But for Rap it is the other way around and music seem to be same for most Rappers. The only thing that change might be the lyrics.

R. Kelly might be a good example of Hip-Hop music that I am talking about. Or if we go back in time, music of Al Green and Marvin Gaye is also a good example of HH
.

[drichardson]

for a few years.

This is a hiding time.

The rap/hip-hop thing is scary. A bunch of illiterate, uneducated thugs, who rap songs worshipping themselves, getting a whole bunch of teenagers and pre-teens thinking its cool to be an uneducated illiterate thug. We won't get into the violence and disrespect/disregard for others.

Pulled my 14 year old niece out of a crack house a couple of weeks ago. Decent family, but got into the rap thing, started hanging around the wrong people. Stopped doing any of her schoolwork, and now talks like a "gang bangin' crack 'ho". All her friends have that "attitude". I remember the "metal head losers" from when I was a kid, but they were pretty tame.


Space.

What's happened to the metal head losers, they're just as violent as the thugs. When you look at the "death heads" (all black, morbid types) and who they look up to - Marilyn Manson??!!! These people are also killing people but usually wind up killing themselves afterwards. I think the state of music period is on a down swing. I limit my listening to classical, jazz, and Christian genures (the Christian rap group Cross Movement has literally changed lives where I come from). Maybe if your niece learns the real story - and give her an alternative (i.e. Cross Movement) she'll straighten up. Hey, its just a thought. I hate to see children go the wrong way, friends are strong influence.

[JSE]

"How can one put the bands like Pearl Jam, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Tool, Dave Mathews Band or Metallica in the same league as Steely Dan, The Who, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Neil Young or Alan Parson? "

You can't, because generally speaking The Who, Bowie, Pink Floyd, Etc are great bands of the past. Yes, some are still making music, I said generally. The bands I mentioned are great bands of the present and most likely near future. And these are just Popular bands. As Jim stated, there are a ton of lesser known bands out there that are great musicians and have telents that rival bands of the 70's.


Grampi said the level of talent is not there anymore. Just beacuse a band is not mainstream does not mean they are not talented. I bet there were a ton of bands in the 70's that were not really mainstream that were extremely talented musicians. I am sure some of you guys could rattle off dozens without even thinking. I can do the same with current bands.

I bet in 30 years this discussion will come up again in soem form. I can hear it now: Man, the bands today (2033) have no talent compared to the great bands back in the last century and earlier this century. Man, remember the Joe Schmoes, that was a great band.

Taste has nothing to do with talent.

JSE

[grampi]

"How can one put the bands like Pearl Jam, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Tool, Dave Mathews Band or Metallica in the same league as Steely Dan, The Who, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Neil Young or Alan Parson? "

You can't, because generally speaking The Who, Bowie, Pink Floyd, Etc are great bands of the past. Yes, some are still making music, I said generally. The bands I mentioned are great bands of the present and most likely near future. And these are just Popular bands. As Jim stated, there are a ton of lesser known bands out there that are great musicians and have telents that rival bands of the 70's.


Grampi said the level of talent is not there anymore. Just beacuse a band is not mainstream does not mean they are not talented. I bet there were a ton of bands in the 70's that were not really mainstream that were extremely talented musicians. I am sure some of you guys could rattle off dozens without even thinking. I can do the same with current bands.

I bet in 30 years this discussion will come up again in soem form. I can hear it now: Man, the bands today (2033) have no talent compared to the great bands back in the last century and earlier this century. Man, remember the Joe Schmoes, that was a great band.

Taste has nothing to do with talent.

JSE

I'm not talking about tastes, I'm talking about talent. You may have the two mixed up. When's the last time you heard a guitar player in one of today's bands (and Stevie Ray Vaughn doesn't count because not one of today's musicians) pick like Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Ace Frehley, or Eddie Van Halen? Or how about hearing one the lead vocalists belt out lyrics like Lou Gramm, Steve Perry, Dennis De Young, or Brad Delp? Could any of today's drummers even hold Neil Pert's drum sticks? None of today's musicians have even a fraction of the talent these people had. I also don't believe any of them have the music writing talent either, but that's more of a taste issue, so I won't go there.

[mpm32]

A little background, I started my listening career with my parents music, simon and garfunkel, beatles. from there I gravitated toward metal; ac/dc, iron maiden, motorhead. from there 'new wave' the police, talking heads, u2,(started with boy when it first came out), the the, then to punk, then to industrial. Now all of this time I was a musician so I was also listening classical, allman brothers, chick corea, pattituci, monk, parlament, james brown, motown etc. Anyway, I digress. My point is that all music borrows from others; there are influences evident in all styles of music that cross over to other forms.

Now on to Hip Hop. I myself had/have no appreciation for Hip Hop, when I heard the word Hip Hop, I assumed the thumping bass, the rap lyrics etc. Now just the other day I was flipping channels and came upon the Documentary Scratch. It was about Hip Hop. If the Documentary is accurate, Hip Hop is all about the turntable - hence Scratch. The MC, or rappers came after. Those that consider themselves purveyors of Hip Hop, have no need for rap. Now after learning about the difference between Hip Hop and Rap and watching these 'turntablists' working their set-ups, I have a new appreciation for Hip Hop. Not that I would go out and buy any, I just understand where they are coming from. Always something to learn.

I guess my point is, to be a complete musician/music aficionado, you need to appreciate all types of music even if you don't necessarily like or listen to everything. Understand that all music has its place. So you have to dig a little to find what you are looking for. I would rather listen to something underground than what clearchannel is shoving down our throats over the airwaves. Even though I appreciate what they are trying to do. $$$ :-)

[JSE]

I'm not talking about tastes, I'm talking about talent. You may have the two mixed up. When's the last time you heard a guitar player in one of today's bands (and Stevie Ray Vaughn doesn't count because not one of today's musicians) pick like Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Ace Frehley, or Eddie Van Halen? Or how about hearing one the lead vocalists belt out lyrics like Lou Gramm, Steve Perry, Dennis De Young, or Brad Delp? Could any of today's drummers even hold Neil Pert's drum sticks? None of today's musicians have even a fraction of the talent these people had. I also don't believe any of them have the music writing talent either, but that's more of a taste issue, so I won't go there.

Grampi, no offense but, WAKE UP! You are trapped in the past. Get out there and listen to some new music. Quit re-living the glory days. I am not going to get into a person for person comparison because that is a waste of time, but I can tell you that your use of the term "NONE" is not accurate and really somewhat ignorant. There are tons of incredible musicians out there today that are just as talented as Page or Steve Perry. Eddie and Neil I will give you. They are probably two of the best techinical musicians on guitar and drums ever. Notice, I said technical. Technical skills are not everything. You obviously know 70's music and love it. That's great, but don't be so blinded by it that you fail to see what else is out there. You are missing out on some really great music and talent and that's a shame.

Not my type of music, but what about that guy named Josh Grolin, or Grogin, Grobin, something like that. I heard him the other day and I could not believe his voice. He's not rock, but man can he sing. And what about Norah Jones. One of the sexiest, most suductive voices in a long time. Oh, and her band has some great musicians as well. Her CD and DVD are permanently clued into my DVD player. I know, these are not "Rock" but you are missing out if you have not heard them and many others.


And bye the way, Ace Frehley?

JSE

[recoveryone]

for a few years.

This is a hiding time.

The rap/hip-hop thing is scary. A bunch of illiterate, uneducated thugs, who rap songs worshipping themselves, getting a whole bunch of teenagers and pre-teens thinking its cool to be an uneducated illiterate thug. We won't get into the violence and disrespect/disregard for others.

Pulled my 14 year old niece out of a crack house a couple of weeks ago. Decent family, but got into the rap thing, started hanging around the wrong people. Stopped doing any of her schoolwork, and now talks like a "gang bangin' crack 'ho". All her friends have that "attitude". I remember the "metal head losers" from when I was a kid, but they were pretty tame.


Space.

Its all the same, Metal head (dopers) & Hiphop (crackheads) back in my day 70's you had dopers dropping out of school rooms full of Rocker poster (Kiss, Arosmith,Ledzepplen and others) sniffing glue taking acid and ludes. Now we have HipHop music with crackheads uplifting gangbanging (been around for decades) now its a world wide craze. all things come and go. Rock may go the way of Jazz, so you better remaine faithful. My good old R&B has been blended with Rap and its hard to tell who whos anymore. Thank God for Neo Soul.

[thepogue]

I think I've still got me ole Ted Nugent beltbuckle somewhere!! lol

[3db]

A colleague of mine introduced me to such bands as 9 inch Nails (especially the Fragile Album). I picked up Tools album, Laterus and there is some good stuff there. Jane's Addictions latest album is good too. If that stuff is a little to heavy, try "The White Stripes" , a Detroit garage band. Very simple basic rock. But very good.

I agree that rock has been replaced by Hip-Hop as mainstream music but its still very much alive and kickin.

[JSE]

I know there have always been bad bands and music in every type of music, but Rock lately has taken a downward turn in terms of quality music and albums. The bands 3db mentioned are truly great bands and I listen to all of them alot. I was extremely pleased with Jane's latest album. But, the majority of the rock bands out there today are just crap. Linkin Park? My god, these guys can barely play their instruments. I think the guitarist knows 3 chords and plays them over and over and over. They are truly a joke of a band.

My point is this. It seems that most of the rock bands around today come out with one or two songs that have been produced to death and then ride on that one or two songs success for a year or so and then they are gone. Which in most cases is for the better. Hell, most radio staions now play the same songs from years past over and over again. They may introduce one or two new songs a week. Why is this? Because the product sucks.

Current Bands I really like:

Tool, Pantera, Jane's Addition, Big Head Todd and the Monsters, Kenny Wayne Sheppard, Seven Dust, I will admit it, MatchBox 20, Dave Mathews Band, Metallica, Nickleback, Perfect Circle, White Stipes, Fuel, Incubus, Dream Theater, Kings X, Norah Jones, to name a few.

Most of these bands produce good music and better yet, good albums from start to finish and are very good live. They are made up of good musicians as well. If you really want to hear some good blues rock, try out Big Head Todd and the Monsters. You Won't be sorry. They don't get much play but they produce some really good albums and are awesome in concert. They are probably the only band I make it a point to see everytime they are in town.

Anyway, sorry to vent again. Good rock is out there, you just have to spend some time looking.

JSE

[topspeed]

Sorry to disagree Smokey, but R&R ain't goin' nowhere. As others mentioned, music trends are cyclical (sp?) and right now rock is down. One of the main problems is there is waaaay too much imitation and not enough innovation. If I hear one more band rip off Blink 182's sound I'll friggin puke! Good Charlotte?! Good Grief!

Rock has broken up into many niches and there are great bands in each. For a stripped down, minimalist sound The Vines, The Strokes, or White Stripes get your blood going. The latest Metallica album is their most hard core since Kill 'em All and Disturbed's latest went multiplatinum. Rap/Rock like Linkin Park and Korn satifies both h/h and rock camps. Tool is one of the most influental progressive rock bands out there, to the point the current rockers like Sammy Hagar say they love their stuff. And finally, Rush's latest album was their best since Moving Pictures IMO.

Another thing to consider is that as we get older, our sensibilities change. As Rock grows and branches out into newer art forms (see Rap/Rock) it may not be the good ol' rock and roll that we remember and therefore not appeal to us. That doesn't necessarily make it bad, just different from our expectations.

So no, Rock is not dead. As a matter of fact, I'll bet that it will be back with a vengence within the next 24 months. Watch...it's time.

[Jim Clark]

Been listening to Rock for last 25 years and 95% of my collection is Rock, but latest Rock music scenes is really disheartening. There is no soul to recent Rock music, everybodys hollering, jumping up and down and they pass it as music.

.

Sorry Smokey but that's spoken like someone who doesn't know jack about music or perhaps someone who's only connection is radio or even worse-MTV. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that there isn't any great Rock that you have discovered?

Too bad there isn't a forum here where you could find out about some really great music that's happening right now. And wouldn't it be great if many of those members offered up some of their own compilations so you could actually hear some of this music before you went online to order it up? Wouldn't that be a really great place?

Millions of bands out there selling millions of CDs. I'll bet if you scoped out Rave Recs for a while you might find more than a few bands of interest. *WARNING* you might just expand your horizons! Send me an email or a PM with your address and I'll forward a copy of my 2003 year end comp. Be forewarned that my tastes are heavily skewed toward various forms of electronic music but there will be some rock that makes the cut as well. I'm listening to my first edit right now as a matter of fact and it's awesome!

Regards,
jc

[grampi]

None of today's groups compare in any way, shape, or form to the groups of the 70's, and none of them have the talent either.

[JSE]

None of today's groups compare in any way, shape, or form to the groups of the 70's, and none of them have the talent either.

Huh? You not serious with that statement are you? None?

JSE

[Over50revisited]

I went through the 50's oldies, the doo wap, motown, british invasion and the 70's and 80's rock and roll and I admit I was spoiled with all that great music. Jim's point about all the great bands today maybe so to his taste but maybe to mine not even close to what was available to me in my time.Even though my kids are grown up to this day they say dad you had the best music. Oh by the way don't put Marvin Gaye and Al Green in the HH or Rap category, these guys were so soulful that definitely is not a compliment. Just my thoughts.

[Jim Clark]

None of today's groups compare in any way, shape, or form to the groups of the 70's, and none of them have the talent either.

Well, I guess I'd consider that a blessing, but then we'd both be wrong. There was plenty to enjoy in the 70's, just as there is now. You just gotta know about it first. To say it doesn't exist is a display of ignorance and nothing else. That's a statement of fact, not a slam, flame, or attack

Regards,
jc

[JSE]

"To say it doesn't exist is a display of ignorance and nothing else. That's a statement of fact, not a slam, flame, or attack"

Well said, Jim

JSE

[grampi]

The only thing I'm saying doesn't exsist is the level of talent in today's artists as compared to those of the 70's, and that's a fact.