RESPECT (for 249$)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Very selectively at that. Apparently, you didn't read his conclusion. Let's review it, shall we?

"In sum, music listeners were unable to identify differences in monophonic and stereophonic reproduction at frequencies below 80 hz, even using...

I read his conclusion, and it does not change or alter one bit what he previously said which I put in bold from his text. I am not sure how you think it does. It is your assumption that it was read selectively, as I have read and cited this article many times. Never make assumptions.

However I could hear no detectable difference between stereo and mono using 80hz crossover slopes.

At crossovers ABOVE 100hz the differences between stereo and mono tended to be localizable in nature.

This comment is perfectly consistent with what I have stated, and what you highlighted does not alter that consistency. You cannot detect stereo below 80hz, and you can at frequencies above 100hz. He does not state the threshold of detection in this article, but he sure does in his white papers he submitted to AES. That detection frequency would be 120hz for non subwoofer applications (two full range speakers), and 100hz with application that deploy subwoofers. Since you commented that Pix was talking about a non subwoofer application, then your contention that the threshold is 80hz is just plain wrong.

Maybe he needs to remove the hearing protection.

He stated he used hearing protection for high level testing which is wise. He didn't say he wore hearing protection for every test, so implicating that with this comment is disingenuous.

I'm sure we could go on all night my friend. Neither of us has worry much about localization since I have two and you have four. I'll leave you with one more thought. What do find in common with these four high performance speaker systems ? (the first three of which I've heard at length in a home setting using incredible gear) You only get one guess.

Infinity IRS



Nola Grand Reference



Scaena 1.4



Evolution Acoustics MM7



What could that common denominator be for these leading edge systems?

rw

All these speaker system have separate subwoofer modules to augment the output of the main speakers.

[E-Stat]

I read his conclusion, and it does not change or alter one bit what he previously said which I put in bold from his text. I am not sure how you think it does.

Only the difference between other listeners can hear and that which he is capable of. Maybe its time to change the Dynaco PAT-5.

He stated he used hearing protection for high level testing which is wise. He didn't say he wore hearing protection for every test, so implicating that with this comment is disingenuous.

I can't think of anything much funnier than an audio "reviewer" who needs to wear hearing protection during a listening test. That's hilarious! "What did you say? Huh? CAN YOU LOCALIZE THE SIGNAL? I SAID, CAN YOU LOCALIZE THE SIGNAL? "

All these speaker system have separate subwoofer modules to augment the output of the main speakers.

You're getting warm. The towers of each are good down to about 40 hz.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Only the difference between other listeners can hear and that which he is capable of. Maybe its time to change the Dynaco PAT-5.

This is a stupid comment. Come on E-stat, you are better than this. In his white paper he didn't participate, and the conclusions were exactly the same.

I can't think of anything much funnier than an audio "reviewer" who needs to wear hearing protection.

I cannot think of anything more stupid than doing high level tests without them

You're getting warm.

I guess I am not interested enough to give a second guess.

rw[/QUOTE]

[E-Stat]

This is a stupid comment. Come on E-stat, you are better than this. In his white paper he didn't participate, and the conclusions were exactly the same.

"The Conclusion" was NOT exactly the same. Hint: that's the part that follows "in sum". It was very different. Have you forgotten already?

I cannot think of anything more stupid than doing high level tests without them

I can't think of anything more stupid than conducting listening tests that require earplugs! That is just too funny!

I guess I am not interested enough to give a second guess.

I'll help you out with the complex answer: They're all in stereo.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

"The Conclusion" was not exactly the same. It was very different. Have you forgotten already?

Please enlighten me because it was not very different at all.

I can't think of anything more stupid than conducting listening tests that require earplugs! That is just too funny!

When you are relying on test equipment and not your ears, it is best that they are protected don't your think?

I'll help you out with the complex answer: They're all in stereo.

rw

The are deployed as stereo, they are not inherently stereo speakers. 5 sets would be multichannel. Who says you only need two mains and two subs? I am not into systems that have built in limitations.

[E-Stat]

Please enlighten me because it was not very different at all.

Not very different at all. Hmmm. Well, I'll have to agree that in the grand scheme of things, half an octave isn't all that great. So, let's review what our deaf "reviewer" has said:

"However I could hear no detectable difference between stereo and mono using 80hz crossover slopes...

In sum, music listeners were unable to identify differences in monophonic and stereophonic reproduction at frequencies below 80 hz, even using..."

Here's another Where's Waldo question. What is the difference between the subjects of the two sentences? Well, the subject of the first was "I". That would be Mr. Earplugs. The subject of the CONCLUSION was "music listeners". As for me, I would be more concerned what "music listeners" can hear as opposed to what Mr. Earplugs is capable of discerning. Also, note the difference between "using" in the first case and "below" in the second. The language is quite clear .

When you are relying on test equipment and not your ears, it is best that they are protected don't your think?

Why would you ever choose to listen to music at levels that required the use of earplugs? Like totally wow man, that sub was rocking at 126 db. Kewl. How does one take a guy like that seriously to ascertain anything resembling critical listening? Certainly not I.

The are deployed as stereo, they are not inherently stereo speakers.

At the expense of confusing the issue with facts, the cabling to and amplification required for each subwoofer is discrete and adheres to every aspect of the word "stereo". As for me, I'll trust guys like Arnie Nudell and Carl Marchisotto - not to mention my own ears - over *reviewers* who need to wear earplugs.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Not very different at all. Hmmm. Well, I'll have to agree that in the grand scheme of things, half an octave isn't all that great. So, let's review what our deaf "reviewer" has said:

"However I could hear no detectable difference between stereo and mono using 80hz crossover slopes...

In sum, music listeners were unable to identify differences in monophonic and stereophonic reproduction at frequencies below 80 hz, even using..."

Here's another Where's Waldo question. What is the difference between the subjects of the two sentences? Well, the subject of the first was "I". That would be Mr. Earplugs. The subject of the CONCLUSION was "music listeners". As for me, I would be more concerned what "music listeners" can hear as opposed to what Mr. Earplugs is capable of discerning.

Wow, this is a stretch. You have a negative personal opinion of him, but that is your problem and issue. He essentially said the same thing two different ways, so I don't agree with your assertion that the conclusion were very different. Neither could detect stereo below 80hz [b]period[.b] Your choice of whether to personally like or dislike his conclusion are irrelevant to the conclusion nevertheless. I think it is pretty damn weak to base your conclusions on what music listeners hear, as they have no superhuman powers of hearing that nobody else posses. A music listener is just a music listener, not super ears.

Why would you ever choose to listen to music at levels that required the use of earplugs? Like totally wow man, that sub was rocking at 126 db. Kewl. How does one take a guy like that seriously to ascertain anything resembling critical listening? Certainly not I.

They would if they were testing ultimate loudness capabilities, and this should not be all that difficult to figure out. Listening to ultimate loudness capabilities is not a critical listening activity, and it should not be judged that way. Keep in mind, your way of doing a test is not the only way a test can be done. Maybe you are not into ultimate loudness tests, but some folks what to know how loud a speaker can play as to judge its ability to hang together during loud peaks. Everyone does not listen to music like you do, or at the levels that you do.

At the expense of confusing the issue with facts, the cabling to and amplification required for each subwoofer is discrete and adheres to every aspect of the word "stereo". As for me, I'll trust guys like Arnie Nudell and Carl Marchisotto - not to mention my own ears - over *reviewers* who need to wear earplugs.

rw

This comment is BS and you know it is. The cabling and amplification is not limited to stereo, it can be expanded to accommodate more channels than just two. So are you telling me the only application these speakers can be used in is a stereo application? That is just plain foolishness. I own 7 Dunlavy SC-V and 5 Dunlavy TSW-V tower subwoofers I use for music mixing. How are these speakers any different than those?