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  1. #1
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    Quality of a Vintage stereo equipment

    I have a stereo equipment bought in the 80's:
    Thorens TD147 Jubilee with Shure V15 III and eventually Grado G2+ (1984)
    CdPlayer Pioneer PD8500 (1992)
    MARANTZ Pre SC-8 + 2 Mono Esotec MA-5 (150 W) (1983)
    Speakers ESB 7/08 (Made in Italy - 1985)
    sound like old B&W ; they had a very good reputation at that time in europe (floor speaker, pneumatic suspension, 3 ways)
    earphone Stax (1986)

    DVD player Sony DVP NS700V (2002)

    Now my question is considering the technology evolution, in your opinion is this equipment still valid in terms of sound quality ?I have some doubt about the cd player and the preamplifier which does not have many inputs (no digital or optical)
    What's about the esotec MA5 ?
    Can it be a good starting point to move to home theatre ?
    thanks Mario

  2. #2
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Other than the CD player, I'd say you're fine as far as sound quality. I also have doubts about the DVD player (I've seen many a Sony player trounced by cheaper players on both sound and video quality). So, the first thing I would do is kill two birds with one stone...replace the CD and DVD players with one high quality player that will do both.

    But like you said, even if the sound quality is fine your preamp is not equipped for digital. If you want home theater in 5.1 surround, you'll need to replace it. I'm not familiar with the speakers, so I'm not sure how hard it would be to find timbre matched center and surrounds for them.

  3. #3
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    You have a great turntable setup and killer headphones. I agree, you are hurting on digital playback. I'm not familiar with Esotec. Do you mean Esoteric? If so, they should be keepers for sure. Even if Esotec is correct, usually monoblocks are quality statements for a company. You'll have to just bring something home to side by side and see how they stack up. Marantz, I'm not familiar with your preamp, they are a company that went through many hands and changes. There's Marantz gear from 60's & early 70's worth more now than when they were new. There was a phase between then and now, as they are now owned by Phillips, their gear wasn't so hot. Even now some of Marantz is pretty good, were other pieces you can do better for the same price.

    Actually, if you buy a HT preamp you can use the DAC's in it for cd playback and use your DVD or current cd, if digital outs, for transport. Be forewarned that a decent HT preamp is going to cost. I personally doubt if much of what you have now will work in a new HT system. As touched on by N'Abstentia, your speakers should be tembre matched. You will almost certainly have to buy a phono stage because no HT preamp that I am aware provides that. You may be able to use the power amps if the other amps you choose have similar sound characteristics.

    The term "vintage" does not apply to digital. When digital is outdated it pretty much loses any value.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    You have a great turntable setup and killer headphones. I agree, you are hurting on digital playback. I'm not familiar with Esotec. Do you mean Esoteric? If so, they should be keepers for sure. Even if Esotec is correct, usually monoblocks are quality statements for a company. You'll have to just bring something home to side by side and see how they stack up. Marantz, I'm not familiar with your preamp, they are a company that went through many hands and changes. There's Marantz gear from 60's & early 70's worth more now than when they were new. There was a phase between then and now, as they are now owned by Phillips, their gear wasn't so hot. Even now some of Marantz is pretty good, were other pieces you can do better for the same price.

    Actually, if you buy a HT preamp you can use the DAC's in it for cd playback and use your DVD or current cd, if digital outs, for transport. Be forewarned that a decent HT preamp is going to cost. I personally doubt if much of what you have now will work in a new HT system. As touched on by N'Abstentia, your speakers should be tembre matched. You will almost certainly have to buy a phono stage because no HT preamp that I am aware provides that. You may be able to use the power amps if the other amps you choose have similar sound characteristics.

    The term "vintage" does not apply to digital. When digital is outdated it pretty much loses any value.
    Thank you for your comments.
    Just some explanation.
    Marantz "Esotec" was a high end line up of early 80's for Marantz. The two mono amps have 150 W in AB class and 30W in pure A class.
    At that time Marantz was owned by Philips; today they are owned by the same venture capital firm owning Denon.
    As far as HT amplification is concerned I was thinking to buy Yamaha 1400 that has pre-outs connections and phono inputs. I would use Yamaha as pre/pro to drive the two mono amps Marantz for front speakers and use the yamaha amplis to drive all other speakers

    What do you think ?
    thanks and regards

  5. #5
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    Hi Mario53,

    Well, The turntable and CD player are good, i'm not familiar with the speakers but the amps are the real jewel in your collection!!

    As you say Marantz's Esotec series was their serious high end stuff and it is still very highly regarded, particularly the power amps, and I'm surprised no-one else picked up on them.

    To be honest, you could keep these and upgrade all the rest to items more modern and expensive - they would do it justice!! Your idea of a setup with the Yamaha would work well IMHO.

    Adam.
    Never test the depth of water with both feet.

  6. #6
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    I would sure like to hear those monoblocks in Class A mode to see how they perform. From what I understand only Marantz receivers went under the umbrella with Denon, I think Phillips still has the rest. In fact, they just put out an integrated amp in the U.S. that can do both class A/B and A, I wasn't aware they done anything like that before until now.

    What you are talking about doing sounds like a good plan, I only have two concerns, the biggest being finding a center and rear speaker to voice match your mains and the second, how much sound quality would be lost when listening to 2 channel using the receiver preamp vs the Marantz preamp. If Marantz was ahead of it's time and provided you a processor loop or pass through switch, that would solve the second. A compromise on the center, you could use "Phantom center" mode and not actually have a center speaker. You could sell the speakers you have now and buy all new speakers of the same model line which is your best bet.

    I'm not sure how much the 1400 is your considering, you may want to consider looking at the Rotel pre/pro. Some of the Yami fans say their receiver is comparable and then you also have to consider buying a 3 channel amp. It's worth letting your ears explore.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    I would sure like to hear those monoblocks in Class A mode to see how they perform. From what I understand only Marantz receivers went under the umbrella with Denon, I think Phillips still has the rest. In fact, they just put out an integrated amp in the U.S. that can do both class A/B and A, I wasn't aware they done anything like that before until now.

    What you are talking about doing sounds like a good plan, I only have two concerns, the biggest being finding a center and rear speaker to voice match your mains and the second, how much sound quality would be lost when listening to 2 channel using the receiver preamp vs the Marantz preamp. If Marantz was ahead of it's time and provided you a processor loop or pass through switch, that would solve the second. A compromise on the center, you could use "Phantom center" mode and not actually have a center speaker. You could sell the speakers you have now and buy all new speakers of the same model line which is your best bet.

    I'm not sure how much the 1400 is your considering, you may want to consider looking at the Rotel pre/pro. Some of the Yami fans say their receiver is comparable and then you also have to consider buying a 3 channel amp. It's worth letting your ears explore.
    I agree with your concerns , but let me give some more info:
    the marantz preamp is a stereo unit and therefore if I want to move to HT I need a Pre/pro with pre-out connections and a "pure direct feature" for stereo listening. That's why I was thinking to Yamaha
    As far as the speakers are concerned you are right the best way could be to sell my speakers and buy a set of new ones of the same make; ..but it will cost more
    I have to think about it
    thanks

  8. #8
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    Yeah, I understand fully what you are wanting to do. Some 2 channel preamps and integrated amps have a feature that allows you to hook the 2 front channels of a receiver or processir into them and pass it through. It allows you to have basically two systems. My set up is like that. I have a Krell integrated for 2 channel and I use it to power my front mains. I have my cd player and turntable going through the Krell and it has a feature called "Theater Through" that makes it a slave to my Primare pre/pro which I have my satelite, DVD & VCR hooked up to. Some brands offer a similar feature and older gear have a processor loop that could do about the same thing.

    The setup you are thinking of doing is very common and popular. You could buy the receiver and set it up with just 2 speakers until you save up for the speakers. HT processors can compensate for not having a center when set that way.

    Which setting do you use for your monoblocks, A or A/B?

  9. #9
    Forum Regular vr6ofpain's Avatar
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    I'm running an Adcom GFA-545(~late 80's) and a Lexicon CP-3(~1992-1994). Also picked up some used Kimber Kable 4VS, looks somewhat old. All picked up relatively cheap off of ebay. The Adcom looks practically brand new, totally worth it in my book. So far it has run like a champ. THe only thing that I dont like is the thump you hear when you switch it on. I am not sure if new amps have moved away from this. (I know from car audio, an old A/D/S amp I picked up did this when you turned it one, but the newer PPI amps I have don't. I believe they have a soft turn on of some sort.)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Yeah, I understand fully what you are wanting to do. Some 2 channel preamps and integrated amps have a feature that allows you to hook the 2 front channels of a receiver or processir into them and pass it through. It allows you to have basically two systems. My set up is like that. I have a Krell integrated for 2 channel and I use it to power my front mains. I have my cd player and turntable going through the Krell and it has a feature called "Theater Through" that makes it a slave to my Primare pre/pro which I have my satelite, DVD & VCR hooked up to. Some brands offer a similar feature and older gear have a processor loop that could do about the same thing.

    The setup you are thinking of doing is very common and popular. You could buy the receiver and set it up with just 2 speakers until you save up for the speakers. HT processors can compensate for not having a center when set that way.

    Which setting do you use for your monoblocks, A or A/B?
    I am setting to A/B because the efficiency of my speakers is very low
    I think you have well understood my idea to keep the quality of a stereo system and have an extension to HT.
    In my original idea I was thinking only to keep the 2 mono amps and hook them to the pre-out Fronts of a A/V Receiver (Yamaha, Denon or HK) .
    I am very confused about the choice between them as comments vary very much. Do you know which of them has more "hi-fi sound". It seems that HK which works more on current absorption is well reputated.

  11. #11
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    It's been some time since I've gone in and listened to receivers. I do tend to prefer the high current design like Onkyo and HK. Denon or Marantz may not have the slam but still have pretty clean sound for a receiver. I'm not one who is a Yamaha fan. A receiver that would meet your needs if anyone in your area carries Arcam, their receiver has excellent 2 channel sound as well as HT. The small one may not have all the features of some of the mass market receivers but the sound is unmatched by other receivers. I haven't seen the new one but it is supposed to have more power and rival mass market for features. The AVR-100 did hover around $1,000. I think the larger model is closer to $2k, it also offers more power.

    The best thing is to go out and listen to some receivers to see what features are available and most importantly how they sound. It's difficult to A/B brands in stores, either the brands are at different stores or are hooked to different speakers or CD player, if possible bring home your top prospects. Most places are now offering 30 day no questions returns and better hi fi stores offer in home auditions.

    I am a big stereo listener, I can just sit and listen to music. Most people think that's strange except for my fellow music lovers here. But I have to admit I really get into HT. If the system is set correctly a 5.1 movie soundtrack can be a lot of fun. I haven't liked the little bit of 5 channel music I've heard and I've read that most 5 channel music is being engineered per the old Quad techniques. But that's another thread and forum.

  12. #12
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    Arcam -Rotel ??

    I think I will probably test and choose between Arcam and Rotel which have the most musical and high quality A/V amps for HT
    I will check which one will better fit with my two Marantz mono amps (front speakers)
    What do you think ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    It's been some time since I've gone in and listened to receivers. I do tend to prefer the high current design like Onkyo and HK. Denon or Marantz may not have the slam but still have pretty clean sound for a receiver. I'm not one who is a Yamaha fan. A receiver that would meet your needs if anyone in your area carries Arcam, their receiver has excellent 2 channel sound as well as HT. The small one may not have all the features of some of the mass market receivers but the sound is unmatched by other receivers. I haven't seen the new one but it is supposed to have more power and rival mass market for features. The AVR-100 did hover around $1,000. I think the larger model is closer to $2k, it also offers more power.

    The best thing is to go out and listen to some receivers to see what features are available and most importantly how they sound. It's difficult to A/B brands in stores, either the brands are at different stores or are hooked to different speakers or CD player, if possible bring home your top prospects. Most places are now offering 30 day no questions returns and better hi fi stores offer in home auditions.

    I am a big stereo listener, I can just sit and listen to music. Most people think that's strange except for my fellow music lovers here. But I have to admit I really get into HT. If the system is set correctly a 5.1 movie soundtrack can be a lot of fun. I haven't liked the little bit of 5 channel music I've heard and I've read that most 5 channel music is being engineered per the old Quad techniques. But that's another thread and forum.

  13. #13
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    Rotel and Arcam would both be good choices. You will hear a definite contrast between the two presentations. I'd like to know what you think of them, either post your review here or send me a message if you wouldn't mind.

    Even though you only have two speakers now be sure to walk through the set up menus to get a feel for ease of set up.

    Enjoy

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