Putting together a budget (as in frugally cheap) 2 channel system, help!

[IRG]

Fro $79 I would go with the DVD S-1800 player and SACD. Take the money saved and put it towards better speakers or amp. I seriously doubt a $200 CD changer is going to sound better than that Yamaha. Just pull the trigger!

Pulled the trigger on this one today, seems too good of a value to pass up. Next up, the amp (Onkyo) and the turntable. And some accessories. Trying to sell a couple of things on CL to avoid using the c card as much as possible. So far, so good.

[IRG]

And now the Onkyo TX-8555 receiver has been ordered too. Just need to get the Denon 300F turntable and I'll be set.

[blackraven]

Sounds like your putting together a very nice budget system. Please let us know how you like it when its all put together. Use some decent IC's and speaker cables.

[LeRoy]

And now the Onkyo TX-8555 receiver has been ordered too. Just need to get the Denon 300F turntable and I'll be set.

Glad to know your system is almost complete. Should be pretty exciting once everything gets out of the box and into play.

[IRG]

Sounds like your putting together a very nice budget system. Please let us know how you like it when its all put together. Use some decent IC's and speaker cables.

I think I'll get the Blue Jean IC's, maybe the speaker cable too, they're not that expensive. Is there any difference in the Belden wire, or the Canare? I have some copper, generic 12g cable wire I could use, with some Monster banana plugs, I might put them together and compare to the BJC.

I need some inexpensive speaker stands too. I think I'll snag the good ones upstairs (parts express, meta, with about 30 lbs of sand in them) and put some kind of Sanus stands in the living room. Is there a good place to get speaker stands?

[IRG]

Any thoughts on this 'table? http://www.amazon.com/Sumiko-Pro-Jec...3864770&sr=1-1

It's about $179 more than the Denon, or I could get the Denon and add a good cartridge.

Or in red: http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject...=2&category=46

[02audionoob]

If you don't mind spending the money on the Pro-Ject turntable, I certainly believe you won't regret it. You could upgrade the Pro-Ject with a Pro-Ject acrylic platter and a better cartridge, later. If you get the Denon, the $179 would be well spent if you went with a Denon DL-160 cartridge from the start.

I see now I mentioned the Debut III in post #4 of this thread...and here we are.

[IRG]

If you don't mind spending the money on the Pro-Ject turntable, I certainly believe you won't regret it. You could upgrade the Pro-Ject with a Pro-Ject acrylic platter and a better cartridge, later. If you get the Denon, the $179 would be well spent if you went with a Denon DL-160 cartridge from the start.

I see now I mentioned the Debut III in post #4 of this thread...and here we are.

I thought it seemed familiar

[Mr Peabody]

I haven't heard those tables but if it was me I'd get the ProJect.

[LeRoy]

I actually have two sets of CCSS speaker cable..and I really like them.

Check out the review here.
http://awards.whathifi.com/winners/cables/2009

I did not think they were too expensive. I have a 2-conductor set, 8-ft, termed
with nana's and I think I paid $135.00.

I also have another 8-ft pair, bi-wire, 4 conductor set, also with nana's and I think I paid $185.00 for that.

With regard to I.C., I have Chord Cobra 3...and it's just okay. You could probably do a lot better for less dollars on the I.C.

[Mr Peabody]

The Bluejeans LC series RCA are great for the money and will hold up until getting into higher end gear. In comparison i found them to be far superior to Monoprice, better than Radio Shack or a pair of Monster but not quite as good as more expensive brands like Transparent or Analysis Plus. Don't know the model of the Monster we used. I really wouldn't recommend the expense of cable like Transparent etc. for a receiver set up. I consider Bluejeans the best of the mid price cables. I guess that depends on the brand, I preferred the Bluejeans over a set of IXO I was given to try.

[blackraven]

I second that Pro-Ject TT, its a very good budget TT with good reviews. Pair it with a Bellari VP130 phono preamp and a decent cartridge and you've got some good sound, better than that Denon IMO. You may want to browse audiogon for good deals on that and the entry level Music Hall tables.

[02audionoob]

I was tempted to say Music Hall, but then I was even hesitant to bring up Pro-Ject. And then there's the Rega P2. Oh, what the heck...the P3-24 or the Technics SL-1200. But then...whatever happened to that budget of $200 per component?

[IRG]

I was tempted to say Music Hall, but then I was even hesitant to bring up Pro-Ject. And then there's the Rega P2. Oh, what the heck...the P3-24 or the Technics SL-1200. But then...whatever happened to that budget of $200 per component?

Did I say budget? Haha, oh yeah I did. I'll probably still stick with the Denon DP300F, it seems solid, and then splurge on a nice cartridge, which I know nothing about. MC or MM? I really don't know the difference.

But the Rega, Music Hall or Pro ject are all tempting. My local dealer has a Technics SL-Q2 I think, I'll double check. Not sure on the cartridge, about $265. Which Technics models are good? There are a lot. That is what I used to have too.

And what accessories are mandatory for vinyl? THe choices seem endless.

[IRG]

I second that Pro-Ject TT, its a very good budget TT with good reviews. Pair it with a Bellari VP130 phono preamp and a decent cartridge and you've got some good sound, better than that Denon IMO. You may want to browse audiogon for good deals on that and the entry level Music Hall tables.

Yeah I'm going to spend a bit more time researching the tt options. You're going to make me poor

[poppachubby]

But the Rega, Music Hall or Pro ject are all tempting. My local dealer has a Technics SL-Q2 I think, I'll double check. Not sure on the cartridge, about $265. Which Technics models are good? There are a lot. That is what I used to have too.

And what accessories are mandatory for vinyl? THe choices seem endless.

The Denon represents exactly what you want, a budget piece. Of course, the Pro-ject would be a better move sonically, but the Denon will keep you happy. Keep in mind the DP300F has a built in stage when considering its value. Needle Doctor are selling them for $399 with an Ortofon 2M Red. This is a great deal.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP...&category=-112



The Red is a nice match for this table, I own one myself. Once broken in, it has a very forward sound, particularily in the high end. This is coupled with brilliant tone so that horns and vocals are a real pleasure. The 2M series has a group of upgradable styli. Red, Blue, Bronze and Black. As you upgrade tables, the 2M can come along for the ride.

http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?opt...d=89&Itemid=75



A cartridge that I have no personal experience with, but am eager to try is the Nagaoka MP 100/110. The 110 is a monster budget piece. It's the replacement for the MP-11. Unlike the Orto, this cart is more relaxed once settled in. My local dealer puts these on entry level tables, they sound fantastic. The sound is detailed but not a huge as the Ortofon.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Nagaoka-...&category=-112

I also own an SL-Q2. It's a real workhorse and a great table. Die-cast plinth that's quite heavy. Quartz accuracy, great for ripping LP's. It has its musical moments, but the Denon would probably edge it out. Many see it as the cousin of the 1200 series. Assuming your dealer has put a budget cartridge on it, $265 might be a little high. Give me the details and I can tell you. Here's a pic of my SL-Q2 (shamelesss photo opp)...



As far as accessories go. Don't worry about it. Get the table and the cart, once you start spinning, these items will reveal what they need to sound better. I might suggest some means to clean LP's to get going. This can be done on the cheap however. Once you have the table, post on the subject and we can tell you how.

Good Luck. BTW, it's nice to see someone actually listening to the advice being given. You won't regret it!!

[poppachubby]

BTW, I'm sure that Needle Doctor would put a Nagaoka on the Denon as opposed to the 2M Red if you asked. Just a thought...

[IRG]

The Denon represents exactly what you want, a budget piece. Of course, the Pro-ject would be a better move sonically, but the Denon will keep you happy. Keep in mind the DP300F has a built in stage when considering its value. Needle Doctor are selling them for $399 with an Ortofon 2M Red. This is a great deal.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP...&category=-112



The Red is a nice match for this table, I own one myself. Once broken in, it has a very forward sound, particularily in the high end. This is coupled with brilliant tone so that horns and vocals are a real pleasure. The 2M series has a group of upgradable styli. Red, Blue, Bronze and Black. As you upgrade tables, the 2M can come along for the ride.

http://www.ortofon.com/index.php?opt...d=89&Itemid=75



A cartridge that I have no personal experience with, but am eager to try is the Nagaoka MP 100/110. The 110 is a monster budget piece. It's the replacement for the MP-11. Unlike the Orto, this cart is more relaxed once settled in. My local dealer puts these on entry level tables, they sound fantastic. The sound is detailed but not a huge as the Ortofon.

http://www.needledoctor.com/Nagaoka-...&category=-112

I also own an SL-Q2. It's a real workhorse and a great table. Die-cast plinth that's quite heavy. Quartz accuracy, great for ripping LP's. It has its musical moments, but the Denon would probably edge it out. Many see it as the cousin of the 1200 series. Assuming your dealer has put a budget cartridge on it, $265 might be a little high. Give me the details and I can tell you. Here's a pic of my SL-Q2 (shamelesss photo opp)...



As far as accessories go. Don't worry about it. Get the table and the cart, once you start spinning, these items will reveal what they need to sound better. I might suggest some means to clean LP's to get going. This can be done on the cheap however. Once you have the table, post on the subject and we can tell you how.

Good Luck. BTW, it's nice to see someone actually listening to the advice being given. You won't regret it!!

Thanks again, the advice has been great, and taken to heart. I'll get back to you all on what type of cartridge is on the Technics. He said the model was a SL-Q20. Is that different than the SL-Q2?

I saw the special that Needledoctor was running on the Denon. But I can get the table from Dakmart for $195, so that is still a better deal, and then upgrade the cartridge. Does Needledoctor install the cartridge for you? And is that worth having them do this, or is it something I should learn how to do? Easy to do, or a PITA?

[02audionoob]

The SL-Q20 is comparable in quality to the SL-Q2 but there are some differences. The Q2 has an S arm with a 1/2-inch cartridge mount on a removable headshell. The Q20 has a straight arm with a plug-in cartridge mount. Unless the cartridge is confirmed new and represents a large part of the price, I think your dealer's price is way too high for the market...although it's still a decent turntable. These turntables sold for $200 around 30 years ago.

Also...my opinions on your questions: Yes...installing a cartridge is a PITA. Yes...you should learn to do it. I can't think of any mandatory accessories, although mandatory is a matter of opinion. I'd prefer to have a tracking force gauge and a method of thoroughly cleaning my records...not just wiping off the dust...unless I were to buy only new records.

And one more comment, the Technics SL-Q20 would be very easy to set up, because the tracking angle and tracking force are preset.

[poppachubby]

Thanks again, the advice has been great, and taken to heart. I'll get back to you all on what type of cartridge is on the Technics. He said the model was a SL-Q20. Is that different than the SL-Q2?

Yes, they are different. Particularily, the 20 has a straight arm. I can't speak to the quality of the 20 except to say that it would be worth a listen. Unless your dealer has a new table, $265 is grossly overpriced for this. Even if it was new, I don't know if it could garner that kind of money. Have a listen, but I would shy away from any dealer who tries to pull a fast one like that.

I saw the special that Needledoctor was running on the Denon. But I can get the table from Dakmart for $195, so that is still a better deal, and then upgrade the cartridge.

Indeed, you are better researched than me. Great price. That's a new table, not open box or return/refurb?

Does Needledoctor install the cartridge for you? And is that worth having them do this, or is it something I should learn how to do? Easy to do, or a PITA?

Necessary evil I'm afraid. Needle Doctor will do it but then it can come out of wack during the shipping process. Your best bet is to take it to a local dealer, assuming they are specialists in the matter, and have them teach you how.

The basic idea is simple and there are protractors available to help you. It can become very detailed however, this is where experience come into play. The more you do it, the better you become. IMO, a PITA but some guys relish it.

Anyhow, consider the Nagaoka MP-110 if you buy it cart-less. That closeout price from Needle Doctor is a steal.

They also have a 2M Red at closeout cost, another great deal...


http://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-...no-Cartridge_2

[poppachubby]

I'd prefer to have a tracking force gauge and a method of thoroughly cleaning my records...not just wiping off the dust...unless I were to buy only new records.

.

I have a hard time believing that the Chief of The Record Cleaning Police Force could leave a new record alone. Oh sorry, you guys changed the name, Record Cleaning Police Service. Heh...

[Mr Peabody]

I would suggest for accessories at least a carbon fiber brush for cleaning the dust off the LP. These are only $25.00 give or take. A stylus brush comes in handy if not one provided with the cart or table. Needle Doctor probably has these in a budget or try www.amusicdirect.com When you pull out an LP and notice it dirty you should have some way to get the dirt off and if deep dirt the brush didn't get your stylus (needle) will get dirty and will not sound good so you will need to get the dirt off the stylus. For really dirty LP's there are a lot of recipes on the net for home brew cleaning solution.

The Denon does have the built in phono but so does the receiver. So why pay for it in the Denon. I thought the Debut 3 was at a lower price point have you shopped the internet for it? A quick look showed Needledoctor selling the ProJect $349.00 but that was the lowest, looks like Sumiko keeps a good control on pricing. Ortofon is one of my favorite budget carts i used to use on my old Pioneer table. Shure and Stanton were good too. Not much of an Audio Technica fan. The ProJect would be worth the expense but I know $150.00 difference can be a lot when on a budget.

[IRG]

OK, I thought the price of the Technics 'table seemed high too. This shop isn't known for its bargains really, which is why I've basically avoided them til now.

The $195 price from Dakmart is refurbished. http://www.dakmart.com/product_info....oducts_id=6550

Good, or should I avoid this? The savings of the $100 could be spent on that Nagaoka cartridge. Also, in terms of "accessories" I did mean a cleaning brush, something like that, and maybe an anti-static mat? For the most part, although I do have a bunch of old vinyl, they aren't in great condition, and from here on out, I'll be buying now and then, nice new pressings for the most part. Quality vs. quantity. unlike my record collection some 25+ years ago.

[IRG]

I would suggest for accessories at least a carbon fiber brush for cleaning the dust off the LP. These are only $25.00 give or take. A stylus brush comes in handy if not one provided with the cart or table. Needle Doctor probably has these in a budget or try www.amusicdirect.com When you pull out an LP and notice it dirty you should have some way to get the dirt off and if deep dirt the brush didn't get your stylus (needle) will get dirty and will not sound good so you will need to get the dirt off the stylus. For really dirty LP's there are a lot of recipes on the net for home brew cleaning solution.

The Denon does have the built in phono but so does the receiver. So why pay for it in the Denon. I thought the Debut 3 was at a lower price point have you shopped the internet for it? A quick look showed Needledoctor selling the ProJect $349.00 but that was the lowest, looks like Sumiko keeps a good control on pricing. Ortofon is one of my favorite budget carts i used to use on my old Pioneer table. Shure and Stanton were good too. Not much of an Audio Technica fan. The ProJect would be worth the expense but I know $150.00 difference can be a lot when on a budget.

Thanks, I'm considering the Pro ject for sure. I'll look for a carbon brush too, that seems like what I;m after. A home brew to clean off the old records will be mandatory I think. Shouldn't be too hard, or too expensive to do this. New records going forward will be treated with a bit more respect

[02audionoob]

I believe AR member Stan just recently bought the refurb from dakmart and was very happy with it. Am I remembering right, folks?

If you're going to wet-clean records, you need a way to vacuum it up. That's the principle behind the good record-cleaning machines and it's far superior to wiping, no matter what you wipe with. Cleaning records poorly might be as bad or worse than not cleaning them at all. You could be spreading stuff that's on the top surface across and into the grooves.

Photo op for my "record-cleaning machine"....



If you're going to buy a carbon-fiber brush, don't get taken to the cleaners (pun intended). The ones that range from $10 to $25 at this site are exactly the same...

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-S...-Fiber-Brushes