Putting together a budget (as in frugally cheap) 2 channel system, help!

[LeRoy]

LeRoy,

Do the CA30's have grill covers? THey look nice without them, but I have a certain 4 year old that has pushed in the cones on my Paradigms, and I can see her doing that with these in a heartbeat. Little rascal.

Also, what size stands should I use with the CA30s? They're pretty small, 24-26" I woud assume.

And 26" stands would be good as I think 24's stands are a little low but that might be what you prefer. I have my speakers on Atacama stands and they are 39" tall.

That's a pretty good New Year's resolution you got going on....well, I have not heard any B.A. speakers in years so I don't know what their signature sound is so I can't offer any help with that. With regard to the order of purchase and most impact on the system sound...I've recently discovered how large an impact the "source" has on the overall system. I can't recall if you already have a CDP.

I discovered when I hooked up my NAD 545 CDP to the Rega Brio 3 and the M.S. 902's the system sounded so drab/dead. I then disconnected the 545 and plugged in the Musical Fidelity and the system came alive again.

No way around it....you could get great speakers like the 902's and never get their best if the source is just so-so. With lesser speakers it may not matter since they may not be able to deliver what the 902's can and therefore you may not be missing what they can't bring to the table anyway. You just gotta find what you can live with and be happy with and save some $$ along the way.

[IRG]

And 26" stands would be good as I think 24's stands are a little low but that might be what you prefer. I have my speakers on Atacama stands and they are 39" tall.

That's a pretty good New Year's resolution you got going on....well, I have not heard any B.A. speakers in years so I don't know what their signature sound is so I can't offer any help with that. With regard to the order of purchase and most impact on the system sound...I've recently discovered how large an impact the "source" has on the overall system. I can't recall if you already have a CDP.

I discovered when I hooked up my NAD 545 CDP to the Rega Brio 3 and the M.S. 902's the system sounded so drab/dead. I then disconnected the 545 and plugged in the Musical Fidelity and the system came alive again.

No way around it....you could get great speakers like the 902's and never get their best if the source is just so-so. With lesser speakers it may not matter since they may not be able to deliver what the 902's can and therefore you may not be missing what they can't bring to the table anyway. You just gotta find what you can live with and be happy with and save some $$ along the way.

Good insights as always. I do not have yet, a dedicated cd player, or turntable. I'm probably going to get the Denon DP-300F table, and then upgrade the cartridge at some point. Going back to vinyl will be different, but fun. I just discovered a local book shop that has a huge vinyl store within it. Big resurgence in vinyl in this quirky town I live in. Haven't decided on a cd player, a good one will have to wait. I'm thinking of that Yamaha DVD S1800 that is supposed to have a pretty good audio section to it. Was $450, Amazon has it for $79, gets good reviews (even for audio).

That's one of the pains with buying everything at once, is that you don't know what your system synergy will be until you have it all together. But I gotta start somewhere.

[frenchmon]

LeRoy how would you describe the Wharfdales? It seems the 902's is a giant killer.

frenchmon.

[LeRoy]

Good insights as always. I do not have yet, a dedicated cd player, or turntable. I'm probably going to get the Denon DP-300F table, and then upgrade the cartridge at some point. Going back to vinyl will be different, but fun. I just discovered a local book shop that has a huge vinyl store within it. Big resurgence in vinyl in this quirky town I live in. Haven't decided on a cd player, a good one will have to wait. I'm thinking of that Yamaha DVD S1800 that is supposed to have a pretty good audio section to it. Was $450, Amazon has it for $79, gets good reviews (even for audio).

That's one of the pains with buying everything at once, is that you don't know what your system synergy will be until you have it all together. But I gotta start somewhere.

It was the entry level player and I don't recall the model number. It had good tonality overall and was a snap to set up. I had it hooked up to a Denon HT receiver and the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's and also spent time with the Usher S-520's. If you pick up the Yamaha at $79.00 that's pretty darn good. If you stick with a Yamaha system, CDP and amplification.....then I would suggest paring it up with the CA S-30's. If you go with Marantz then go with the Mordaunt's....of course....that's easy for me to type but I know it's hard to consider without first listening to the set up.

Are you having fun on the forum yet? ha-ha

LeRoy

[LeRoy]

LeRoy how would you describe the Wharfdales? It seems the 902's is a giant killer.

frenchmon.

Initially, I really loved these speakers. But they only sounded great with the Denon HT receiver. They really did not mesh at all with the Rega as they got really bright when I cranked up the volume. I did not think they were bright when they were paired with the Denon. The 9.1's do have a great tweeter and pretty good mid range. The bass has that "hump" to make them sound deeper but I still enjoyed the bogus bass from these tiny tots. In my opinion the 9.1's most striking accomplishment was decay. The decay of the notes and voices is fantastic through this speaker.

I did not keep them because I got rid of the Denon as the Denon would clip with bass heavy music. Either way, the 9.1's can't touch the M.S. 902's.

The 902's, IMHO, are unheralded classics. Just quickly going through a fast recall of speaker brands that I prefer more than the M.S.....Reference 3A, some Martin Logan models, most of the Dynaudio, and the B&W Nautilus series of speakers.

[IRG]

LeRoy, I assume the 902i's are rear ported, are the biwireable too? I can't find anything on this. Even the MS site doesn't mention it. I did read the WhatHiFi review, very nice review at that. And they beat out the Wharefdale 9.1 that were mentioned in an earlier thread, but the reviews on the 9.1 seem good too, they said it came down to price, the 902 being cheaper.

[LeRoy]

LeRoy, I assume the 902i's are rear ported, are the biwireable too? I can't find anything on this. Even the MS site doesn't mention it. I did read the WhatHiFi review, very nice review at that. And they beat out the Wharefdale 9.1 that were mentioned in an earlier thread, but the reviews on the 9.1 seem good too, they said it came down to price, the 902 being cheaper.

Yes, the 902's are rear ported but surprisingly the vast majority of bass energy comes from the driver. Even at higher volumes there is some to little bass energy coming out the back port. I don't know how they don't do it but i've never heard any chuff from the 902's nor have I ever heard the 902's distort or sound strained.

With regard to the 9.1's....it's more than a difference of price. The 9.1.s while having a more relaxed presentation of the music the tweeter and woofer can sound strained at higher volumes and the bass can sound boomy but deep for such a small speaker. Also, separation of the instruments and voices is not as good as the 902's. Additionally, detail/insight into the music is superior on the 902's. The 9.1's are front ported I have have heard them chuff when pushed. The 9.1's can't dish it out like the 902's can.

Both speakers can be bi-wired and it's easier to do on the 902's.

LeRoy

[LeRoy]

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/brand/288

While I've heard of Jamo speakers before I can't recall the experience of listening to them....been a very, very, long time ago.

Anyway, seems like they are just about being given away at Vanns. Maybe this speaker line would work for you and get a 5.0 or 5.1 system for about the price of pair of bookshelf speakers...

Thought you might want to know.

Have a nice day.

LeRoy

[Mr Peabody]

Looks like some good deals on the Jamo. Not sure if it's what the OP is looking for but I have some friends looking for budget HT.

[IRG]

Thanks for the Jamo link. I think though, I may order the 902i's tonight. Just seem too good for the $ not to get them.

[IRG]

Question, I've been looking at the accessories4less page, and their Onkyo and Marantz receivers are factory reconditioned. Anyone have issues with ordering products like these? Also, I can order an open box model from Crutchfield for about the same price (if they include shipping). Better off going that route?

Also the Ixos cables they sell, are they pretty good value? I see the Blue Jean Cables mentioned here, I had never heard of them before, must be a newer company (as in last 5 years).

I'm having a problem deciding on a decent cd player at the moment. I was thinking about the Yamaha DVD S1800 (sacd and dvdaudio), and it's $79 at Amazon. The Marantz 5 disc at ac4less is $159, maybe a better unit?

[IRG]

The 902i's have been officially ordered now

[mcbr1]

Others probably know more than me, but just based on reviews, the Denon's audio quality seems to be mid-pack, nothing wrong with it, nothing spectacular either, although at this price point, probaby nothing will be. The HK seems to have a loyal following, and would seem to rank it closer to the Marantz. I wonder though, with one company owning both Denon and Marantz, how different they might be.

The Marantz equipment looks and feels a step ahead, the Onkyo stuff is pretty decent too. I don't really like the layout of the H/K, everything is sort of hidden behind a screen. I like turning knobs like what the Onkyo or Yamaha has, they just have a nice feel about them. Instead of different menus and what not.

But at $500 and under, I'm not sure sonically, how really different any of these receivers can be from one another. I don't expect them to be the same, but i would think the differences would be fairly subtle.

To me, it comes down to ease of use, look/feel of controls, reliability and price. They all have phono inputs (not sure the HK does), 50 - 100 watts, spec wise pretty close.

I can get online the Onkyo for $199, the Marantz for $299, those are my two leading contenders. The Yamaha isn't bad either, but it doesn't have a sub out that I think now might not be bad to have. The mid range Yamaha does have it though.

How about in terms of warm/bright/

[LeRoy]

The 902i's have been officially ordered now

With regard to the CDP units you were mentioning. I currently have a Marantz CD/DVD/SACD model# DV6001 single disc player that I use exclusively for movies. The reason I choose the single disk unit over the same player that was a 5-disc unit was due to not being able to swap or change disks while one was playing. Also there were reports of slow loading and respond times with the 5-disc unit.

I don't know if the Marantz unit you are considering also has the same attributes but you may want to research if further. Personally, I would go with a single disk unit be it Yamaha, Marantz, or whomever.

Oh, and one thing I failed to mention as I just now thought about it....do give the 902i's minimum of 4 weeks to get to the intermediate stage of break in. It takes about 6-8 weeks to fully break them in. The tweeter and mids are mostly broken in after about two weeks but the aluminum woofer is tight and needs to loosen up and that's going to take some time. However, your patience will be rewarded indeed.

[Mr Peabody]

My experience with IXO's I didn't care for them at all, they sounded bright and lacking in the bottom end. I would recommend the Bluejeans for a budget cable. With that said I only had one pair of the IXO's to compare and I'm not sure what series or model.

Yeah, LeRoy's enthusiasm with the MS makes me wish I had a purpose for a pair, I'd love to hear them.

I might have said this already but in the receivers you are looking at I prefer the Onkyo. I have the little brother 48x2 Onkyo receiver. This thing is impressive with what it can drive. I had it hooked to a pair of Infinity Kappa 7's at one point for fun and it had them slamming. The 7's are a 12" 3-way and if you are familiar with the Kappa series not many receivers could do that. Others will give sound but the Onkyo was moving those 12's and the bass was all there. Hopefully the 8555 has more clarity than the little bro but what can you expect for under $200.00. So if it was a toss up as in your case the current in the Onkyo would sway me. I agree with your assessment of Denon.

[IRG]

My experience with IXO's I didn't care for them at all, they sounded bright and lacking in the bottom end. I would recommend the Bluejeans for a budget cable. With that said I only had one pair of the IXO's to compare and I'm not sure what series or model.

Yeah, LeRoy's enthusiasm with the MS makes me wish I had a purpose for a pair, I'd love to hear them.

I might have said this already but in the receivers you are looking at I prefer the Onkyo. I have the little brother 48x2 Onkyo receiver. This thing is impressive with what it can drive. I had it hooked to a pair of Infinity Kappa 7's at one point for fun and it had them slamming. The 7's are a 12" 3-way and if you are familiar with the Kappa series not many receivers could do that. Others will give sound but the Onkyo was moving those 12's and the bass was all there. Hopefully the 8555 has more clarity than the little bro but what can you expect for under $200.00. So if it was a toss up as in your case the current in the Onkyo would sway me. I agree with your assessment of Denon.

Thanks Mr. P, the Onkyo is the way I'm going, 99% sure. Maybe will order tomorrow. The 100w version, just to be safe I had an old HT 575x model a long time ago, and it was flawless. I had their basic 100 watt power amp/pre amp too over 10 years ago, and for cheap money it wasn't bad. So yeah, I think this system is coming together here.

In terms of biwiring the 902s, how do I do that with a receiver? I have a lot of generic 12ga cable and Monster banana plus I wouldn't mind using. Any thoughts on what I should for speaker cables? I'll check out BJC for their speaker cabe options too.

[Mr Peabody]

I will have to defer the bi-wire question, I don't do it. Any reason why you want to? You might do a regular hook up at first to get a feel for the system before experimenting. It helps to have a base for reference.

[IRG]

I will have to defer the bi-wire question, I don't do it. Any reason why you want to? You might do a regular hook up at first to get a feel for the system before experimenting. It helps to have a base for reference.

No reason why I want to do it, I've never been quite sure what the advantages of it are, and since the 902's can be biwired I figured maybe I should try it. But you're right, I should get a baseline reference first, and go from there. So, what are the supposed advantages of having your speaker bi wired? I would think there must be some advantage/purpose, or why else would speakers have it? Marketing/hype I suppose are good reasons too.

[IRG]

So I was reading on the BJCables web site on their speaker cables, and they mentioned that biwiring byasses the speakers crossover. "Canare 4S11 is a "star quad" 14-gauge cable, with four conductors together in one outer gray jacket; it is popular for bi-wiring (where the speaker crossover is bypassed and separate wires run to each of four speaker terminals). "

I guess I never knew this, is always the case?

[Mr Peabody]

Not all speakers are made to allow bi-wiring. Dynaudio for one does not. The BJC RCA cables I use are the LC series. I think most here gravitated to those. Not sure what speaker wire to recommend.

Here is a link to explain bi-wiring a bit. A Google on the topic should keep you busy reading for some time on the subject if this isn't enough. http://www.brilliancehifi.co.uk/how-...e-speakers.htm

[LeRoy]

what I uncovered.

Onkyo DX-C390
6-CD changer with MP3 CD playback
Item #580DXC390
Your Price $199.99
Be sure to read the user ratings/reviews
http://www.crutchfield.com/brands/Onkyo/

**
We've added this item to your cart
to show you the Temporary Price Reduction.
Onkyo DX-C390
Reg. Price:
$219.00
Your Price:
$175.98
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=21714
Be sure to read the user reviews here too.

**
The Onkyo DX-C390 has been added to your shopping
cart to show you the special price.
Was:
$219.98
Savings:
$50.00
Shipping:
Free
Your Price
$169.98
http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/s...Onkyo&start=10
Of course I know you are going to read the user reviews here
as well.

No, I did not place an order for it. I simply loaded the cart to see what the hidden price was.

[frenchmon]

IRG...I find the bi-wire debate about the same as the cable/speaker wire debate. Some hear a difference some don't.

I have a pair of Paradigm towers that are bi-wirable. I bought them new back in 2002. Before that I was using some old speakers from the late 70/80's that I bought back then...some old Technic speakers that where 4 way speakers. Great for their time but very out dated by 2002. So I decided to get new speakers. When I first hooked up the Digms they sounded good...very much better than the old Technics which where a cheap speaker any way. After a breakin of the Digms I decided to bi-wire and did notice a difference in the sound quality of the bi-wire. Some hear it, some don't. As always, let your own ears be the judge...may it be with speakers, speaker/inter-connect cable, audio gear or what ever....let your ears be the judge.

frenchmon

[IRG]

what I uncovered.

Onkyo DX-C390
6-CD changer with MP3 CD playback
Item #580DXC390
Your Price $199.99
Be sure to read the user ratings/reviews
http://www.crutchfield.com/brands/Onkyo/

**
We've added this item to your cart
to show you the Temporary Price Reduction.
Onkyo DX-C390
Reg. Price:
$219.00
Your Price:
$175.98
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=21714
Be sure to read the user reviews here too.

**
The Onkyo DX-C390 has been added to your shopping
cart to show you the special price.
Was:
$219.98
Savings:
$50.00
Shipping:
Free
Your Price
$169.98
http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/s...Onkyo&start=10
Of course I know you are going to read the user reviews here
as well.

No, I did not place an order for it. I simply loaded the cart to see what the hidden price was.

Sorry I missed the post before now. I have read all these reviews, more positive than I thought. The Yamaha 697 is favorably reviewed too, so not sure on which one, or the Marantz 4001. Not sure what direction I want to go here, but may stick with my plan of the Yamaha dvd S1800 as a single disc player.

[blackraven]

Fro $79 I would go with the DVD S-1800 player and SACD. Take the money saved and put it towards better speakers or amp. I seriously doubt a $200 CD changer is going to sound better than that Yamaha. Just pull the trigger!

[IRG]

Fro $79 I would go with the DVD S-1800 player and SACD. Take the money saved and put it towards better speakers or amp. I seriously doubt a $200 CD changer is going to sound better than that Yamaha. Just pull the trigger!

I'm doing it tomorrow, don't rush me, lol. I ordered the Mordaunt Short 902i's yesterday, so I'm making progress. Gotta get the amp, I think the Onkyo TX 8555, and the Denon DP300F turntable.

Maybe a new cartridge for it as well? I'm not even sure what it comes with. Scanning the plethora of options at the needledoctor, I see the Denon cartridges are actually pretty well thought of. A high ouput MC. I'm not even sure what the differences are between MM and MC. And what it takes to change cartridges. The easier the better, and this stage.